Argus Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Do we have a substantial backlog of people coming out of med school and being unable to find a residency? According to the cite I read 1500 Canadians are forced to study abroad because they can't get residencies in Canada. But in any event, we can't talk about increasing the number of medical school positions unless we also increase the number of residency positions available for them to graduate into, now can we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 According to the cite I read 1500 Canadians are forced to study abroad because they can't get residencies in Canada. They can't get into medical school in Canada - It seems that a lot of Canadians have to go abroad to study medicine, but unless they do a residency in Canada, they cannot practice in Canada - A recent survey found that there are 10,500 medical students in Canada and about 3600 Canadians studying medicine abroad – enough to fill about 6 Canadian medical schools. Canadians who study medicine abroad are not assured of a residency training spot in Canada – required for a license to practice medicine in Canada. Rikin Patel, who went to medical school at St. George’s University in Grenada, reflects on the “long road” that he took prior to obtaining his current pediatrics residency position at Memorial University in Newfoundland. Patel went through multiple cycles of medical school applications in Canada before deciding to study medicine abroad. He then competed against hundreds of doctors for his residency position and considers himself lucky to have obtained a spot. Getting the number of doctors right is a major issue in Canadian health care, with data showing that many Canadians experience long waits for specialist care and have difficulty finding a family doctor. Peter Walker, the former Dean of the University of Ottawa Faculty of Medicine notes that the high cost of medical schools abroad, combined with the low acceptance ratio in Canada, make it difficult for many able and qualified Canadians to pursue a medical education. Why are so many Canadians going abroad to study medicine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Which is why I could believe it to be true, like Saipan said, that the shortage is manufactured. I know for a fact this "method" has been used in other parts of the medical industry to put pressure on the government, to force them to recognize professional stature and increase wages. Sad, but true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Which is why I could believe it to be true, like Saipan said, that the shortage is manufactured. I know for a fact this "method" has been used in other parts of the medical industry to put pressure on the government, to force them to recognize professional stature and increase wages. Sad, but true! what sort of drugs are people taking?...I could supply endless evidence for the next decade to the contrary and the conspiracy theorists would be unshaken...evidently rational logic and thought is a rare commodity in this forum...government funding or lack of funding determines how many MDs come into the system not the healthcare system and not MD's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 ...government funding or lack of funding determines how many MDs come into the system not the healthcare system and not MD's... What? No wonder things are so constipated. Why the hell does government (provincial) spending determine the number of MD's? That's just whacked! Does it also determine the number of plumbers or dentists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 cite Validated, amazingly. One wonders why this isn't well known - but then again... nothing to do with healthcare is well known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 The stat you hear trumpeted by some politicians is that 5 million Canadians don't have a doctor. That's a misnomer. What matters is access to a doctor. I would assume nearly all of this 5 million has access to a walk-in clinic. We do have a shortage of surgeons and specialists. That's what requires focus. There's plenty of money in the system for that. It just requires some innovation to be more cost-effective. An example of this is giving pharmacists the authority to prescribe/renew certain drugs. This is something Alberta is doing. This will save the system big dollars and free up the schedules of GPs to take more patients. It will also curb some of the abuse of the system. I had one doctor in particular who would make me come in for refills every 30 days. He was billing 3 times what my next dr. billed simply by making subscriptions 100 days. The last I heard, the pharmacist association was negotiating what it what a pharmacist would get for filling out a prescription. I would just give them the ability to do so and let the free market take care of the rest. If a pharmacist offers the service they'll get more business. If they choose not to, they'll likely end of losing customers. But that would be their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Validated, amazingly. One wonders why this isn't well known - but then again... nothing to do with healthcare is well known. hardly, what it validates is a government minister trying to deflect the blame on the medical associations...this is the same government that denies climate change... I've already posted a number of requirements that need to be met by foreign MDs to practice here which the conspiracy crowd avoids acknowledging...so it would appear ignorance of healthcare isn't well known because people refuse to listen...a good conspiracy story about greedy elite MDs is just so much more believable than the truth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 The stat you hear trumpeted by some politicians is that 5 million Canadians don't have a doctor. That's a misnomer. What matters is access to a doctor. I would assume nearly all of this 5 million has access to a walk-in clinic. I prefer walk-in to my family MD, waiting time once there is about the same and I don't need an appointment, as long as you go to the same walk-in each time your records are on hand even if you have a different MD each visit... It will also curb some of the abuse of the system. I had one doctor in particular who would make me come in for refills every 30 days. He was billing 3 times what my next dr. billed simply by making subscriptions 100 days. ya but that could also be better procedure by your MD, wanting to see your progress on a 30 interval, ask him/her next time...MDs are so busy they don't need the extra business each a few extra prescriptions bring them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I've already posted a number of requirements that need to be met by foreign MDs to practice here which the conspiracy crowd avoids acknowledging...so it would appear ignorance of healthcare isn't well known because people refuse to listen...a good conspiracy story about greedy elite MDs is just so much more believable than the truth... Isn't that a different issue ? The number of residence spaces vs. foreign MDs admitted ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 The stat you hear trumpeted by some politicians is that 5 million Canadians don't have a doctor. That's a misnomer. What matters is access to a doctor. I would assume nearly all of this 5 million has access to a walk-in clinic. We do have a shortage of surgeons and specialists. That's what requires focus. There's plenty of money in the system for that. It just requires some innovation to be more cost-effective. An example of this is giving pharmacists the authority to prescribe/renew certain drugs. This is something Alberta is doing. This will save the system big dollars and free up the schedules of GPs to take more patients. It will also curb some of the abuse of the system. I had one doctor in particular who would make me come in for refills every 30 days. He was billing 3 times what my next dr. billed simply by making subscriptions 100 days. The last I heard, the pharmacist association was negotiating what it what a pharmacist would get for filling out a prescription. I would just give them the ability to do so and let the free market take care of the rest. If a pharmacist offers the service they'll get more business. If they choose not to, they'll likely end of losing customers. But that would be their choice. C'mon down to Niagara region! Yes, they have walk-in clinics to make up for a lack of doctors. Yes, they are available. It's only an hour or two's drive! Surely your sick or injured baby can hang on for at least THAT long! Actually, those people would find that American services are much closer, in terms of time. I wonder if anyone has any stats on how many Canadians use an American service... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) I see no reason for private health care in Canada. The rich will often choose to go south or overseas for specialized care if they don't want to wait, or want a certain doctor or facility. I see no need to have private health care in Canada, and I think it would just drain expertise from the public universal system and create two qualities of care. Edited August 29, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Do we have a substantial backlog of people coming out of med school and being unable to find a residency? If so, your argument is valid. If it is not so, then if we did not accept foreign residents, we would simply have less total residents, and thus less people to perform medical services. We talked about this before. Canadian applicants are moved ahead of foreigners in the queue. Furthermore its not true that foreign residents are going through residency so that they can go and work in another country. The whole point of residency is to get your license to practice HERE in Canada. Any other country they wanted to work in would likely have diferent requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 C'mon down to Niagara region! Yes, they have walk-in clinics to make up for a lack of doctors. There are walk in clinics everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I see no reason for private health care in Canada. The rich will often choose to go south or overseas for specialized care if they don't want to wait, or want a certain doctor or facility. I see no need to have private health care in Canada, and I think it would just drain expertise from the public universal system and create two qualities of care. You already have private health care delivery in Canada, and 25% is privately funded. N tier qualities of care already exist, within and across provinces. Edited August 30, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 There are walk in clinics everywhere. Well, I have many long term friends in that area. It's an hour or two away, on the lesser side if traffic is good or you take rural roads. I'm going by what I'm told by some who live there. If you have proof that they're all wrong then I bow to your better perspective from Winnipeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Well, I have many long term friends in that area. It's an hour or two away, on the lesser side if traffic is good or you take rural roads. Don't you live in Stoney Creek? Are you telling me that there are no walk in clinics in Hamilton, a city of 750k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Don't you live in Stoney Creek? Are you telling me that there are no walk in clinics in Hamilton, a city of 750k? I live in a town with about 35 thousand people and theres about 8 or 10 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I live in a town with about 35 thousand people and theres about 8 or 10 of them. I live in a town of 166....I can see a nurse mon - fri, I can see see a doctor 40 mins away in 1 day, and I can walk in to a clinic with 20 doctors by driving an hour to the nearest city of 8500.....and I live in BF nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy von Vloppen Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 try understand some very simple math here, two systems cannot work in Canada...any MDs lost to a private system will leave those of us who cannot afford private care with longer much longer waits and with fewer MDs... Allowing private insurance would not necessarily take doctors out of the public system. It depends on how it's set up. In Germany, most doctors accept both public and private insurance. When I was living there, I noticed the first question the receptionist at the doctor would always ask was, "Do you have public or private insurance?" Then you would hand in a certificate known as a "Krankenschein" that gave them all your insurance info. Keep in mind, the public insurance system is different in Germany. There's not a single public option like Medicare. The government has actually created numerous publicly funded insurance companies like Medicare. Every person is required to buy into one of those or to choose private insurance, which does not get government funding. I agree with you that it would be a mistake to create a public and private system where doctors quit public service. However, it's entirely possible for doctors to serve both the publicly and privately insured without destroying the quality of the public system. In Germany about 10 percent of the population is privately insured, while most of the population goes for one of the more affordable public plans. I got my public insurance from a company named AOK (http://www.aok.de/bundesweit/). Best health insurance I've ever had! It was way, way better than the GARBAGE I have now (Aetna), which is extensive and routinely finds excuses for not covering me. The German public/private health care system does have its strange and uncomfortable quirks. The privately insured pay more and get better service. It's not uncommon for a privately insured person to be to the front of the line to when others have been waiting to see the doctor. There's a PBS video named "Sick Around the World" that shows how different countries handle health insurance. The countries shown are United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland. It's aimed at an American audience, but I think Canadians interested in improving their health care system will benefit from seeing it. It's free to watch online (though it's not working as I write this) or a DVD can be ordered. It's here: My link (I do not work for or have any financial interest in PBS, btw.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think I'm only partially understanding what you saying...define for me what you mean by "Public" verus "public"... Publics are groups of individuals, all of whom presumably have a voice. In matters of healthcare, there is no public group that stands out in one's mind. The public is presumably represented by government, however the government does not treat them as such - it treats them more like the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Allowing private insurance would not necessarily take doctors out of the public system. How could it not? If not actually taking doctors, it's still taking their time that would otherwise be spent in the public system. Edited August 30, 2011 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Don't you live in Stoney Creek? Are you telling me that there are no walk in clinics in Hamilton, a city of 750k? Once again, I think you didn't read my words very closely. Perhaps you should slow down a bit. I never referred to Stoney Creek or Hamilton. I spoke of Niagara Region. You are correct that there are walk-in clinics in Hamilton. Pity that's not what I was talking about. However, in a short time you may be right about Niagara as well, hopefully. A major local hospital was closed as part of some kind of consolidation. There were all kinds of reasons given as to how this would result in better service for the citizens but considering it adds many miles and much time for anyone needing hospital services, particularly accident victims, the locals aren't buying the story. I do hope that some walk-ins are springing up to offer some local family care. I would assume that it's likely. Wouldn't want to live in Thorold and need an ambulance, however. Edited August 30, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy von Vloppen Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 How could it not? If not actually taking doctors, it's still taking their time that would otherwise be spent in the public system. It could be set up to not drain resources from the public system. In Germany everyone has to pay taxes into the public system, even if they opt out and purchase private insurance. It's similar to how in the US you have to pay taxes that support public schools even if you send your child to a private one. Doctors also accept both public and private insurance. With it being set up this way, only wealthy people can afford private insurance. In fact, only about 10 percent of the population is privately insured. IMO Canadians are smart to be wary of a change to a public and private system. If the opt-out allowed for a person to not pay Medicare taxes, and doctors were allowed to only accept private insurance, then, yes, resources would be drained. However, the way it's set up in Germany, it works quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 However, the way it's set up in Germany, it works quite well. How do they know ? How would we know if it were working or not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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