Mainstream Media ignoring and sidelining Ron Paul

[maple_leafs182]

I suggest you ask someone who is unemployed or dependent on Medicare for their medical needs. Debt can be paid off, and it will be.

They only way it will ever be payed off is with new money which will just exasperate the problem even more.

[punked]

They only way it will ever be payed off is with new money which will just exasperate the problem even more.

They don't even have to pay it off. They just need to stop incurring debt for 10 years and inflation will erase the debt all on its own.

[maple_leafs182]

They don't even have to pay it off. They just need to stop incurring debt for 10 years and inflation will erase the debt all on its own.

Of course they do, how can they not. If you got a mortgage would the bank ever say,"you don't have to pay it off", what makes them US so special were you think they don't have to pay it off?

Edited August 23, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[bush_cheney2004]

Of course they do, how can they not. If you got a mortgage would the bank ever say,"you don't have to pay it off", what makes them US so special were you think they don't have to pay it off?

Just refinance it...the US will never pay off the entire debt down to zero....it doesn't have to.

[Bonam]

Of course they do, how can they not. If you got a mortgage would the bank ever say,"you don't have to pay it off", what makes them US so special were you think they don't have to pay it off?

Think you missed his point. The debt right now is $14 trillion in 2011 currency. If the US "stopped incurring" debt for 10 years, that debt would still be $14 trillion in 2021 currency. That would be worth about 20% less, meanwhile the economy would likely be about 20% larger in real terms due to growth. That means the debt/gdp ratio would have decreased on the order of 40% without having paid any of it off.

Of course, realistically, the US will continue to incur more debt for the foreseeable future, probably topping 20 and possibly 25 trillion in the next decade. But if it really did stop incurring debt, punked's statement would be true.

[maple_leafs182]

Think you missed his point. The debt right now is $14 trillion in 2011 currency. If the US "stopped incurring" debt for 10 years, that debt would still be $14 trillion in 2021 currency. That would be worth about 20% less, meanwhile the economy would likely be about 20% larger in real terms due to growth. That means the debt/gdp ratio would have decreased on the order of 40% without having paid any of it off.

Of course, realistically, the US will continue to incur more debt for the foreseeable future, probably topping 20 and possibly 25 trillion in the next decade. But if it really did stop incurring debt, punked's statement would be true.

Well I like to stick to realistically...what makes him think the US won't go into more debt, where will the Government get more tax revenue or cut spending?

[Bonam]

Well I like to stick to realistically...what makes him think the US won't go into more debt, where will the Government get more tax revenue or cut spending?

Apparently you don't understand the meaning of an "if... then" clause.

[maple_leafs182]

Just refinance it...the US will never pay off the entire debt down to zero....it doesn't have to.

So you are assuming that people will continue to buy its bonds forever

[dre]

Think you missed his point. The debt right now is $14 trillion in 2011 currency. If the US "stopped incurring" debt for 10 years, that debt would still be $14 trillion in 2021 currency. That would be worth about 20% less, meanwhile the economy would likely be about 20% larger in real terms due to growth. That means the debt/gdp ratio would have decreased on the order of 40% without having paid any of it off.

Of course, realistically, the US will continue to incur more debt for the foreseeable future, probably topping 20 and possibly 25 trillion in the next decade. But if it really did stop incurring debt, punked's statement would be true.

Theres limits to how deep in debt you can go.

Countries like China run a huge trade surplus with the US, and wind up with huge ammounts of US dollars on hand. They then close the cycle by dumping that exact same money back into the US market by purchasing bills, bonds, equities, securities, and so on... If they didnt do that then US consumers couldnt keep buying their crap and their factories/economy would shut down.

These countries are making a value judgement that could easily change. As other consumer markets emerge they could decide its no longer worth it to subsidize America.

[maple_leafs182]

Anyways, what Ron Paul is saying is that there is a bubble in the bonds market. He is saying that people won't continue to buy up US debt forever and when the bubble bursts the only one left to buy up the bonds will be the Fed and that will lead to the destruction of the currency.

[dre]

Anyways, what Ron Paul is saying is that there is a bubble in the bonds market. He is saying that people won't continue to buy up US debt forever and when the bubble bursts the only one left to buy up the bonds will be the Fed and that will lead to the destruction of the currency.

Yup. The system works good. Irresponsible actions result in negative consequences eventually.

[bush_cheney2004]

Anyways, what Ron Paul is saying is that there is a bubble in the bonds market. He is saying that people won't continue to buy up US debt forever and when the bubble bursts the only one left to buy up the bonds will be the Fed and that will lead to the destruction of the currency.

Mr. Paul had better stick to stethoscopes instead of bonds. People (and nations) will continue to buy US Treasuries, munis, and other bond instruments because yields will increase to offset any such risk. That's why it is called a "Bond Market". Greece is still selling bonds.

[Guest American Woman]

Anyways, what Ron Paul is saying is that there is a bubble in the bonds market. He is saying that people won't continue to buy up US debt forever and when the bubble bursts the only one left to buy up the bonds will be the Fed and that will lead to the destruction of the currency.

So because he's saying it ... it's true? What if someone else is saying the opposite? In other words, who died and made him God?

[dre]

So because he's saying it ... it's true? What if someone else is saying the opposite? In other words, who died and made him God?

Well its not just him. The belief that maintaining that large of a current accounts defecit is unsustainable and will eventually weaken the bond market, and devalue the currency is actually a pretty mainstream belief. Mainstream among both politicians and economists.

Paul gets credit for being ahead of the curve though. Hes been ranting about this for decades, so when the national debt triples in about ten years, and two consecutive presidents (Obama and Bush) each borrow more during their terms than all other presidents since confederation combined, and easy credit causes a world wide financial meltdown, followed by the first downgrade to Americans credit rating in recent history, it looks good on Paul. He was ahead of the curve while all the other politicians just kept making the problem worse.

[maple_leafs182]

So because he's saying it ... it's true? What if someone else is saying the opposite? In other words, who died and made him God?

Ron Paul was right before, he was warning about the collapse of the housing market for years before it happened. I don't know why people continue to discredit him.

This is a video or Ron Paul making predictions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEvrloBetw

Edited August 24, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[Guest American Woman]

So Paul's been ranting about the national debt for decades - even though it's just become a problem - while warning about the collapsing housing market for years before it happened. I guess the moral is if someone talks about something for years - decades - and it somehow comes to pass to some degree or another at some point in time - said person who's been speaking of it and ranting about it forever is some sort of genius.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

So Paul's been ranting about the national debt for decades - even though it's just become a problem - while warning about the collapsing housing market for years before it happened. I guess the moral is if someone talks about something for years - decades - and it somehow comes to pass to some degree or another at some point in time - said person who's been speaking of it and ranting about it forever is some sort of genius.

So... having the foresight to see where something is going... is bad in the U.S.? I suppose that is why the country is tanking so hard as the wealthy make off with all of the loot.

He was right. He saw where it was going and everyone ignored him. His words are growing stronger as youth are left with the burden of taxes, and no benefit for the previous generations mistakes.

I recall Jean Chretien going around advocating a lower debt to GDP. And he was leader of a centrist party! Prime Minister too of course.

Edited August 24, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[MiddleClassCentrist]

double post

Edited August 24, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[maple_leafs182]

Mr. Paul had better stick to stethoscopes instead of bonds. People (and nations) will continue to buy US Treasuries, munis, and other bond instruments because yields will increase to offset any such risk. That's why it is called a "Bond Market". Greece is still selling bonds.

People aren't buying bonds, why do you think there was QE1 and QE2, the banks used that money to buy US bonds. QE3 will be the same thing, the banks will use that money to buy US bonds. I think QE3 will be significantly larger then QE2.

It just came out that the Fed gave 1.2 Trillion Dollars out in loans after the collapse. All that money was given out and it was all done in secrecy, what is to stop them from giving out more secret loans. I guess QE3 doesn't have to be that much bigger then QE2 if they just go out and give secret loans anyways.

The economy is a ponzi scheme for the rich yet you guys keep defending it, why?

Edited August 24, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[maple_leafs182]

So... having the foresight to see where something is going... is bad in the U.S.? I suppose that is why the country is tanking so hard as the wealthy make off with all of the loot.

He was right. He saw where it was going and everyone ignored him. His words are growing stronger as youth are left with the burden of taxes, and no benefit for the previous generations mistakes.

Nicely written.

That is the reason why many of these riots have started around the world. London, Greece, Egypt, Israel, you name it, these riots have started all around the world because the youth have realized that they are getting screwed over. I don't think the youth have quite figured that out yet here in Canada or in the US because things aren't that bad here yet.

[Bonam]

That is the reason why many of these riots have started around the world. London, Greece, Egypt, Israel, you name it, these riots have started all around the world because the youth have realized that they are getting screwed over.

How, exactly, are we getting "screwed over"?

[GostHacked]

How, exactly, are we getting "screwed over"?

Less public service, higher prices, higher fees on education (which hinders you from getting an education and a better job/caree) taxpayer money used for bail outs while they decrease your savings interest rate and hike up fees. And if we look at the last clown show installment where they threatened to dip into social security and retirement savings and reduce health care benefits, all while beating the drum for war (Libya).

[dre]

How, exactly, are we getting "screwed over"?

Because Generation: Useless is fixing to flee the bar and leave its kids with the mother of all bar tabs.

[Guest American Woman]

So... having the foresight to see where something is going... is bad in the U.S.?

Noooooooo. That's hardly what I said. What I said is that he's been "ranting" and 'predicting' things long before he had any reason to, and I imagine he's been ranting about other things too, that haven't come to pass. So what I did say, in effect, is if someone rants and predicts for years, something is bound to come true to some degree or another. That hardly makes him 'in the know' or 'on the money' as the sayings go.

I suppose that is why the country is tanking so hard as the wealthy make off with all of the loot.

Your take on something doesn't equal reality.

He was right. He saw where it was going and everyone ignored him. His words are growing stronger as youth are left with the burden of taxes, and no benefit for the previous generations mistakes.

"The youth" are always left with the previous generation's mistakes, and the offspring of the present youth will be no different.

Edited to add: I believe "the youth" voted for Obama .......

Edited August 24, 2011 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

Edited to add: I believe "the youth" voted for Obama .......

That's cool they let the youth vote in the U.S. In Canada, they don't get to do so until they are adults.