Mayhem in Tottenham U.K.

[Shwa]

There is a difference between political protest and anarchic looting and arson. You don't seem to appreciate that different kinds of civil unrest call for different kinds of responses.

Really? Then why don't the police and army of the various nations simply walk in, and start shooting? Why hasn't that been the response over the past generation or so? Oh wait, it's because of liberalism.

And frankly, the idea these anarchic idiots would regroup and start a revolution is so patently ludicrous that I wonder how you weren't embarrassed making the suggestion.

Who cares if it is a revolution or not? Seriously, just the events of the past week ought to give you a big clue. Do you have any idea of the level of damage an escalating situation can cause? Any clue whatsoever?

What would be their chant? We demand free Nikes?

No it would likely be 'fuck you' as they kicked in yet another window, burned down yet another building and allowed more people to be injured and die.

[Thorn]

And in your universe every state that's done this has survived and thrived?

I didn't make any claim with regard to history. I'm saying that is the way it is now, today, in Canada, in the US, in Britain, in Sweden, in Switzerland, wherever...

[Thorn]

Really? Then why don't the police and army of the various nations simply walk in, and start shooting? Why hasn't that been the response over the past generation or so? Oh wait, it's because of liberalism.

Because it usually hasn't been necessary. On occasion, it has.

Who cares if it is a revolution or not?

Anyone with more than half a brain.

No it would likely be 'fuck you' as they kicked in yet another window, burned down yet another building and allowed more people to be injured and die.

People don't kick in windows and burn down buildings after you shoot them in the head. They tend to be very peaceful thereafter.

[Oleg Bach]

Sun Media which is all over the place put across the idea that it was not some sinister old white rich guys that were screwing the poor. They also said that it was not the poor being taxed to death supporting the poor. They also stated that it was the middle class that was being driven into the ground because of being taxed to support the rioting poor....Frankly I just follow the buck - It is the sinister old white rich guys that caused this all to happen - and THEY are responsible - worst part is that the old rich guys really don't have a true or realistic perspective of THEMSELVES.

[Shwa]

Because it usually hasn't been necessary. On occasion, it has.

But here you are, advcocating for it to be "necessary" all the time. LOFL!

Anyone with more than half a brain.

No, people with more than half a brain are smarter than that. So you have obvioulsy characterized yourself.

People don't kick in windows and burn down buildings after you shoot them in the head. They tend to be very peaceful thereafter.

Yeah, but all the rest - who don't get killed - tend to do worse things. Syrians for example.

[Shwa]

I didn't make any claim with regard to history.

That much is obvious.

[Saipan]

It's not about history anyway.

[Thorn]

That much is obvious.

As I previously stated, it's become clear the intelligence of any post is easily seen by the number of emoticons employed by those whose literary skills and intelligence are too feeble to respond in any coherent fashion.

I've also noticed you employ them in virtually every post you make.

It's become patently obvious that you are by far the most insulting poster on this site, and the one with the least of value to contribute on any subject you grace with your smirking, incoherent ignorance. Having discovered the "ignore" feature, I will henceforth consign you to it.

[Guest American Woman]

Evidently Cameron brought in an American to help deal with the riot crisis - and it's not going over too well. I read a comment that American police do things by force and that's not the way the British police want to operate. Seems to me you would have to use some force when dealing with this kind of lawlessness. Perhaps that's why the riots went on as long as they did? - or at least a contributing factor?

TENSIONS between Britain's government and police leaders has flared over Prime Minister David Cameron's recruitment of a veteran American police commander to advise him on how to combat gangs and prevent a repeat of the past week's riots.

British police insulted by David Cameron's US recruit plan after riots

[Shwa]

As I previously stated, it's become clear the intelligence of any post is easily seen by the number of emoticons employed by those whose literary skills and intelligence are too feeble to respond in any coherent fashion.

Straw man.

I've also noticed you employ them in virtually every post you make.

Ad hominem.

It's become patently obvious that you are by far the most insulting poster on this site, and the one with the least of value to contribute on any subject you grace with your smirking, incoherent ignorance. Having discovered the "ignore" feature, I will henceforth consign you to it.

Personal attack.

New to the internet aren't you bubble boy?

[Shwa]

Evidently Cameron brought in an American to help deal with the riot crisis - and it's not going over too well. I read a comment that American police do things by force and that's not the way the British police want to operate. Seems to me you would have to use some force when dealing with this kind of lawlessness. Perhaps that's why the riots went on as long as they did? - or at least a contributing factor?

TENSIONS between Britain's government and police leaders has flared over Prime Minister David Cameron's recruitment of a veteran American police commander to advise him on how to combat gangs and prevent a repeat of the past week's riots.

British police insulted by David Cameron's US recruit plan after riots

I am really not sure what the beef is, 2 years ago...

On September 11, 2009, he was awarded with the honorary title of Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II "in recognition of his work to promote cooperation between US and UK police throughout his distinguished career.

I believe Bratton - or his methods - have been successfully applied in Toronto; I recall him being consulted over the gang problem in Toronto and the change in methods has been somewhat (?) effective?

The beef might be in the nature of the UK riots though - were they led by well-known gangs. If they weren't, how effective would his methods be?

[jbg]

Toronto G20 - 1 hour property rampage, no assaults - 1000 people arrested.

London - 3 day rampage including assaults on police and gas firebombs - 215 people arrested

Gee ... think the Toronto cops overreacted just a bit?

I guess your idea of fun is to let things get badly out of hand first?

[jbg]

Evidently Cameron brought in an American to help deal with the riot crisis - and it's not going over too well. I read a comment that American police do things by force and that's not the way the British police want to operate. Seems to me you would have to use some force when dealing with this kind of lawlessness. Perhaps that's why the riots went on as long as they did? - or at least a contributing factor?

One should ask if violent riots are the way British do things.

[capricorn]

Evidently Cameron brought in an American to help deal with the riot crisis - and it's not going over too well. I read a comment that American police do things by force and that's not the way the British police want to operate.

I suppose the UK cops interpret this move as another criticism of their effectiveness and an infringement of their turf.

Bratton's overall strategies that he successfully used in the past to reduce and contain violence and crime seem sensible and based on reality.

Bratton said he believes British police need to focus on quelling racial tensions by collaborating more with community leaders and civil rights groups. He also said social media sites can be a useful tool for law enforcement trying to monitor gang activities.

"The idea is to get ahead of the violence rather than just react to it," he said.

Another part of the potential long-term solution for London's Metropolitan Police, widely known as Scotland Yard, is to become more racially diverse, Bratton said.

"Part of the issue going forward is how to make policing more attractive to a changing population," he said.

Los Angeles and New York have benefited from police forces that "reflect the ethnic makeup of the cities," he said.

Over the past two decades, Bratton has gained a reputation as a bold leader who refocused police departments in cities struggling with spikes in gang and other violence.

When Bratton stepped in as Boston's police commissioner in 1991, the city was still being rocked by the violence that gripped many U.S. cities in the late 1980s as potent and addictive crack cocaine flooded urban neighborhoods. The ensuing gang turf wars forced a dramatic spike in the city's murder rate, hitting a high of 153 people in 1990.

One of the steps Bratton took to curb the violence was to deliver a list of about 400 of the city's gang and drug kingpins to then-Mayor Raymond Flynn, who had appointed him police chief.

Flynn said Bratton wanted direct indictments for as many as possible, sweeping some of the city's most violent criminals off the street for up to a decade.

"That's what he was good at; he was able to get those ringleaders off the streets," Flynn said.

---

Bratton left widely credited with ushering in an era of safer streets and improved relations between police and the people they protect.

Civil rights attorney Connie Rice says she considers Bratton a transformative figure in the history of the LAPD.

"He has a racial-justice vision that is married to effective law enforcement," Rice said. "He knows how to carry out both."

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/08/12/2522846/apnewsbreak-bratton-in-talks-for.html

UK authorities lack this expertise. Bratton is providing consultative assistance free of charge. You'd think they would welcome this initiative which in the long run will improve their performance and in turn raise their profile within the general population.

[Thorn]

Evidently Cameron brought in an American to help deal with the riot crisis - and it's not going over too well. I read a comment that American police do things by force and that's not the way the British police want to operate. Seems to me you would have to use some force when dealing with this kind of lawlessness. Perhaps that's why the riots went on as long as they did? - or at least a contributing factor?

Labour has been in power there for quite some time, and the route to promotion through the Met was to echo the sentiments expressed by labour with regard to crime originating through social problems which need to be addressed. Hard line coppers who wanted to crack down on criminals got no promotions. The men promoted were those who felt, like Labour, that police were a regretful, but necessary organization which needed to mind its manners at all times and be ultra respectful of everyone's rights, particularly anyone who was a racial minority.

You actually see something similar in Canada because most big cities are controlled by the NDP or an NDP mindset and so they promote senior police officers on the basis of how much they agree with their sentiments. Toronto's incompetent police chief is a case in point.

[jbg]

You call it "mayhem", I call it a "grassroots anti-poverty campaign".

That's a keeper.

[Saipan]

You are so idealistic - burning property- destroying housing does not assist in the cause of anti-poverty.

Yes, they should burn their own nest. They will become rich

Then they should spray each other's house with graffiti and throw some garbage in front of their homes.

[jbg]

Then they should spray each other's house with graffiti and throw some garbage in front of their homes.

Saipan, I have immense admiration for the rioters. After all, similar characters helped make Deroit (for a Canadian rendition, Gordon Lightfoot's "Black Day in July"), Newark (New Jersey), Cleveland and Baltimore the paradises they are today.

[Shwa]

Saipan, I have immense admiration for the rioters. After all, similar characters helped make Deroit (for a Canadian rendition, Gordon Lightfoot's "Black Day in July"), Newark (New Jersey), Cleveland and Baltimore the paradises they are today.

Would that also explain New York, Miami & LA?

[jacee]

Socialism dispises fatherhood and cons mothers into thinking that they are independant...and don`t need a dad in the house. Socialism attempts to be father - apparently socialism is a dead beat dad.

Don't NEED them. Want them? Maybe ... if they're not aho's.

Socialism has nothing to do with it. Happens in conservative families too.

[eyeball]

You call it "mayhem", I call it a "grassroots anti-poverty campaign".

-k

According to this explanation it's an adjustment of the Riot Index.

I was shocked when some young acquaintances riding the bulls on Bay Street first explained to me the theory of government that prevailed among their set, based on something they called the Riot Index.

Too many riots were bad for business, they allowed, but so were too few – a sign that government had become soft and inefficient. Prudent government squeezed until the mob rebelled, then increased spending just enough to prevent extensive property damage. Optimal social policy was a matter of dialling in the appropriate frequency of riots.

Crackin' down hard and gettin' tough - through clenched teeth, not soft like before, but mean, the way so many seem to crave these days...should make for some really riotous times ahead.

As for me, I think I'd need to see gangs of feral CEOs burning Sally Anns to the ground and looting food banks before considering the possibility we've gotten too liberal in our over-entitlement. Especially given the ridiculously accelerating income gap.

With a capital E Especially.

Edited August 15, 2011 by eyeball

[bloodyminded]

Labour has been in power there for quite some time, and the route to promotion through the Met was to echo the sentiments expressed by labour with regard to crime originating through social problems which need to be addressed.

Hmmm. Again, here are Bratton's remarks:

Bratton said he believes British police need to focus on quelling racial tensions by collaborating more with community leaders and civil rights groups. He also said social media sites can be a useful tool for law enforcement trying to monitor gang activities.

"The idea is to get ahead of the violence rather than just react to it," he said.

Another part of the potential long-term solution for London's Metropolitan Police, widely known as Scotland Yard, is to become more racially diverse, Bratton said.

"Part of the issue going forward is how to make policing more attractive to a changing population," he said.

It sounds like his approach is not in every way dissimilar; just perhaps more expertly-performed and nuanced.

I realize some people think he's a "hard-headed realist," which to them means he's all about bashing heads. And that, to these people, such an idea makes them shiny-eyed and, well, moist.

But his methods don't seem to be quite that simple. He's "racially-conscious and respectful," and believes in working closely with "civil rights groups and community organizers."

Edited August 29, 2011 by bloodyminded