dre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Whatever works It "seems" like it should work. I think those little ribbons are sometimes symbols of appreciating the cops too. It would be interest to do a study on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Or just treat em better! I was reading that vets account for a disproportionately large number of our homeless people. I wonder how much comfort a guy living under a highway overpass gets from seeing the odd car drive by with a ribbon. It almost seems like a dirty secret that people just like to ignore. Long as people got their little ribbon magnet theyre doin their part! The statistics of actual numbers of homeless vets are not out of proportion from the rest of the general population……the same problems that afflict all homeless people also touch former members....alcohol, drugs, mental health etc...The latest literature that I’ve seen from veteran affairs has the number in the high hundreds, to low thousands...With that said, combat Vets that suffered PTSD or other war related injuries are on the low end of the overall number since there are numerous mechanisms to identify these cases early, which for the most part, are treated before the members are discharged. Homeless Vets, to be honest, are not more or less of a problem than homelessness is in general.... For what it’s worth, many former service members with 10+ years service are doing quite well once they transition into civilian life....Unlike most Canadians, former service members aren’t saddled with large student loans, will receive either a pension and/or severance package and are generally more prepared to deal with high stress environments, decision making and responsibility then the average kid that put themselves through 4-6 years of university packing groceries, slinging coffee or bartending… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 With that said, combat Vets that suffered PTSD or other war related injuries are on the low end of the overall number since there are numerous mechanisms to identify these cases early, which for the most part, are treated before the members are discharged. Oh well, who cares it's probably just them effing lefties that suffer this anyway. Maybe it's what they get for having a conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Would there be anything wrong with Support the Mission or Support the State bumper stickers? Depends who was making it but to say that Support the Troops is a political statement is to imply that the troops constitute some sort of political entity. How would you like to be pigeon holed as to your political views by someone who knows nothing about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 100% of the revenue from Support Our Troops merchandise purchased through CANEX goes to, well, supporting the troops through community, recreational and family programs. Whether or not you are for or against our participation in any particular conflict, you should recognize that the very real sacrifices made by military members and their families are done so in your name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Depends who was making it but to say that Support the Troops is a political statement is to imply that the troops constitute some sort of political entity. That's right, and this is reinforced with every war-mongering politician's photo-op that soldier's volunteer to provide a back-drop for. How would you like to be pigeon holed as to your political views by someone who knows nothing about you? Are you kidding? That happens all the time around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) That's right, and this is reinforced with every war-mongering politician's photo-op that soldier's volunteer to provide a back-drop for. Ya right, if a politician doesn't show up for the mandatory photo op at the local pride parade, they are homophobic bigots but try and show some support for the people who volunteer to put their lives on the line for this country and they are war mongers. You make me want to puke. Are you kidding? That happens all the time around here. Try looking in a freaking mirror. Edited August 2, 2011 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just a philosophical question here. If Canada had entered the Iraq war as Harper wanted back when he was opposition, being that I believe it to be an unjust war I would not be able to support our troops. How can Americans against the Iraq war support their troops when they are involved in an illegal war and responsible for torture. If I believe Canadian troops are responsible for handing enemy over to people they know will torture them. Is it ethically responsible to support our troops? To any and all Harperites, constructive thoughts and criticisms only please (not love this country or leave it please). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just a philosophical question here. If Canada had entered the Iraq war as Harper wanted back when he was opposition, being that I believe it to be an unjust war I would not be able to support our troops. How can Americans against the Iraq war support their troops when they are involved in an illegal war and responsible for torture. Perhaps because the people they are supporting are their sons, daughters, other relatives, friends, sons and daughters of friends or just plain old people who volunteered to do any dirty job their country asked them to. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the people who gave them the job. If I believe Canadian troops are responsible for handing enemy over to people they know will torture them. Is it ethically responsible to support our troops? You can believe what you wish but perhaps "enemy" is an operative word here. They are after all, Afghanis being dealt with by Afghanis in Afghanistan. To any and all Harperites, constructive thoughts and criticisms only please (not love this country or leave it please). Why is this about "Harperites", the Liberals sent our troops to Afghanistan and gave them their combat mission in Kandahar. Harper has supported it, extended it and now ended it. As much as you want to try and make it so, this is not about one political party. It's interesting that the same people crying about any support for our military personnel being a political statement, are the ones most intent on politicizing it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Quote: How would you like to be pigeon holed as to your political views by someone who knows nothing about you? Are you kidding? That happens all the time around here. Try looking in a freaking mirror. Amen to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 ... How can Americans against the Iraq war support their troops when they are involved in an illegal war and responsible for torture. Because the Iraq war was not any more illegal than NATO's (Canada's} bombing of Serbia....and now Libya. As for torture, troops were prosecuted for illegal acts, and actually served more time compared to convictions and punishment for actual killings by two members of the Airborne Regiment (Somalia Affair). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just a philosophical question here. If Canada had entered the Iraq war as Harper wanted back when he was opposition, being that I believe it to be an unjust war I would not be able to support our troops. How can Americans against the Iraq war support their troops when they are involved in an illegal war and responsible for torture. I'm one such American, and it's quite easy. For several reasons. First, the troops are not some automated political machine. They are people with lives and families that they leave behind to serve their nation. My nation. Secondly, since we did go to war and nothing was going to change that, I hope for the best possible outcome. I didn't see Saddam staying in power, winning the war, as the best possible outcome. Do you? Third, I think a lot of the troops are there because they also want to help the Iraqi people. They want to help Iraq become a democracy. You speak of the troops who are responsible for torture - a very small number - yet you don't mention those who are opening their hearts to the Iraqi people and doing whatever they can to help them - the troops who are going above and beyond to do what they can to help individuals. There are many such stories if anyone cares about that aspect of it. But the bottom line is they are not the politics behind the war. They are people. Why wouldn't I support them? What's the alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Because the Iraq war was not any more illegal than NATO's (Canada's} bombing of Serbia....and now Libya. As for torture, troops were prosecuted for illegal acts, and actually served more time compared to convictions and punishment for actual killings by two members of the Airborne Regiment (Somalia Affair). The law is the law is the law. The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.I'm not saying the bombing of Serbia or Libya are anymore lawful. As for torture, just because a few troops were punished doesn't mean justice was served what about the real decision makers? A little different from a couple of psychopathic redneck racists in the Somalia Affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) The law is the law is the law. The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal. Mr. Annan is not the final word on what is or is not "illegal". He can "declare" no such thing, and even if he did, it does/did not have the force of the UNSC. I'm not saying the bombing of Serbia or Libya are anymore lawful. Did you support Canada's troops/actions at the time? If so...why if it was not "anymore lawful"? As for torture, just because a few troops were punished doesn't mean justice was served what about the real decision makers? A little different from a couple of psychopathic redneck racists in the Somalia Affair. Go back and compare notes for the chain-of-command accountability and convictions. Bottom line in answer to your question is that Americans continue to support the troops because they believe that illegal acts will be prosecuted according to the UCMJ, criminal, and civil courts, just like any other perp's actions. I suspect that most Canadians feel the same way. Edited August 2, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'm one such American, and it's quite easy. For several reasons. First, the troops are not some automated political machine. They are people with lives and families that they leave behind to serve their nation. My nation. Secondly, since we did go to war and nothing was going to change that, I hope for the best possible outcome. I didn't see Saddam staying in power, winning the war, as the best possible outcome. Do you? Third, I think a lot of the troops are there because they also want to help the Iraqi people. They want to help Iraq become a democracy. You speak of the troops who are responsible for torture - a very small number - yet you don't mention those who are opening their hearts to the Iraqi people and doing whatever they can to help them - the troops who are going above and beyond to do what they can to help individuals. There are many such stories if anyone cares about that aspect of it. But the bottom line is they are not the politics behind the war. They are people. Why wouldn't I support them? What's the alternative? I'm sorry but people have to take responsibility for their actions or lack of action. As you said "the troops are not some automated political machine". They have a duty and responsibility to think for them selves. I respect the fact that some of these people were in the forces before the Iraq war started. I also understand that the majority of those that enlisted are from the underprivileged portion of society and are less educated, and therefore had little options or no real understanding of how corrupt the US Government can be, and were lied to. I'm sure that most people in the beginning truly believed that they were there to help the Iraqi's. I wonder how many believe that now ? But like I said people have a ethical responsibility to say "NO I will not be apart of this" when they discover something illegal is occurring. Passing the buck by saying I am just following orders is no longer acceptable. Please don't get me wrong I am comparing the US to Nazi's but simply to point out that this is how most of the atrocities occurred in Germany "I am just following orders". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Bottom line in answer to your question is that Americans continue to support the troops because they believe that illegal acts will be prosecuted according to the UCMJ, criminal, and civil courts, just like any other perp's actions. I suspect that most Canadians feel the same way. You can't be serious? What are the odds in Vegas for this happening? History is written by the victors, plus It's like here in Canada when police investigate police misconduct...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Ya right, if a politician doesn't show up for the mandatory photo op at the local pride parade, they are homophobic bigots but try and show some support for the people who volunteer to put their lives on the line for this country and they are war mongers. The politicians I'm talking about are trying to use the glow that volunteers emit to put a shine on their war-mongering. You make me want to puke. Tell me something I don't know. Try looking in a freaking mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 The politicians I'm talking about are trying to use the glow that volunteers emit to put a shine on their war-mongering. What's wrong with "war-mongering"....compared to...say..."peace-mongering"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Perhaps because the people they are supporting are their sons, daughters, other relatives, friends, sons and daughters of friends or just plain old people who volunteered to do any dirty job their country asked them to. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the people who gave them the job. If only our invasion of Afghanistan had been put to a referendum, with a super-majority, before you said this, you'd have a real point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 The law is the law is the law. The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal. I personally think the Iraq War was a pointless venture. However, was Kofi Annan a judge, and from which court in which jurisdiction was he giving his verdict? Was it the US Supreme Court? Because, as far as I can tell, the United States is still a sovereign country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 What's wrong with "war-mongering"....compared to...say..."peace-mongering"? I don't know...but I bet you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 If only our invasion of Afghanistan had been put to a referendum, with a super-majority, before you said this, you'd have a real point. That makes absolutely zero sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 That makes absolutely zero sense. You're a fricken' right-winger, what do you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 You're a fricken' right-winger, what do you expect? It still doesn't make any sense, even to a pacifist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) You're a fricken' right-winger, what do you expect? Right-winger, uber-leftie, I've been called them all, so don't bother. I'm only reading the one person's statement and your response to it; the latter had no relation whatsoever to the former. Perhaps you could elaborate on why we need to have referenda before people may express their support for the Canadian Forces? [c/e] Edited August 2, 2011 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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