Remiel Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 The topic isn't about buying them, it's about displaying them on government vehicles. It's about the government showing support for the troops. I'm sure people who serve, who have family members serving, appreciate a reminder that they are not forgotten - that their service is appreciated. What I am saying is that if they city wants to show they support the troops they should do something substantial: commission a plaque (or more substantial monument), or make an actual donation to the troops. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 ....This has become the new political correctness, and its pretty obvious that any who posted in this thread in support of the idea that the government should not directly engage in these types of programs was gonna get an earfull because of that. As well they should....why single out "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on government vehicles compared to a myriad of other government sponsored "propaganda" for things like social programs, energy conservation, or drunk driving ? It is obvious why such support gets flack from the usual suspects who hear/see Nazis around every corner when their views do not prevail in domestic or foreign policies. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 I never said ANYONE was a Nazi. I provided a couple of examples of the dangers of nationalism and military idolitry. Facists and dictators are just obvious examples because actively encouraging reverence of the governments security apparatus was one of the core concepts they operated on. I dont know any of those people. Like I said, Im totally fine with people making any statements they want to. People should wear poppies, buy bumper stickers, wear ribbons or whatever they please. I think the government should promote patriotism and nationalism to the extend they do their best to make a country into something its people are proud of but beyond that Id rather they didnt engage in direct propoganda. You consider "support the troops" stickers on the backs of city fire trucks/Snow plows/Ambulances/Buses a propaganda campaign? Quote
dre Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 As well they should....why single out "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on government vehicles compared to a myriad of other government sponsored "propaganda" for things like social programs, energy conservation, or drunk driving ? It is obvious why such support gets flack from the usual suspects who hear/see Nazis around every corner when their views do not prevail in domestic or foreign policies. why single out "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on government vehicles I dunno! Maybe its because "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on government vehicles is the topic of the thread? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 I dunno! Maybe its because "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on government vehicles is the topic of the thread? Correct...you dunno! Here was your chance to amp up "harmless" bumper stickers into a large scale conspiracy by a fascist government to take over the country...then the entire world! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Its hard to way whats next which is why I worry about this kind of thing. Its potentially a slippery slope. These stickers on some government vehicles are obviously not that big a deal... a pretty harmless token gesture. But if people support the government engaging in this kind of activity, Im curious where they might personally draw the line. Is there a limit? Would they support fairly extensive government programs aimed at making sure the people "appreciate" the governments security apparatus enough? What about a national media campaigns? Nowhere in “support the troops”, does it say “support the (a) government”……….The Liberals & Conservatives deployed troops to Afghanistan………The CPC, with the support of the Libs and NDP went into Libya………..To me, that seems apolitical………Why do you feel a municipal government putting supportive slogans of on their trucks is some form of propaganda campaign? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Correct...you dunno! Here was your chance to amp up "harmless" bumper stickers into a large scale conspiracy by a fascist government to take over the country...then the entire world! I’m certain as we speak (type) the ninja’s from Dwyer Hill are boarding their (black) helicopters in route to dre’s home... If you hear that knocking at your door: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/commun/ml-fe/images/articles/fullSize/09-12-6b.jpg Edited July 31, 2011 by Derek L Quote
dre Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Nowhere in “support the troops”, does it say “support the (a) government”……….The Liberals & Conservatives deployed troops to Afghanistan………The CPC, with the support of the Libs and NDP went into Libya………..To me, that seems apolitical………Why do you feel a municipal government putting supportive slogans of on their trucks is some form of propaganda campaign? Nowhere in “support the troops”, does it say “support the (a) government”. The military is part of the government so its not suprising that those lines inevitably get blurred... by people on both sides of the specrtum. Why do you feel a municipal government putting supportive slogans of on their trucks is some form of propaganda campaign Because its a political message that promotes reverence of the governments security apparatus. Like I said before... where do you personally draw the line on this type of government activity? Do you draw one at all? This is a tiny symbolic program... I dont think its a big deal really. But how much of this type of activity do you think the government should be allowed to engage in?. Theres lots of ways they could get this message out and keep strengthening it. Couldnt you make all the same rationalizations and justifications if the government wanted to produce and distribute any other kind of media aimed at promoting their security apparatus? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Correct...you dunno! Here was your chance to amp up "harmless" bumper stickers into a large scale conspiracy by a fascist government to take over the country...then the entire world! Ok. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 .... Couldnt you make all the same rationalizations and justifications if the government wanted to produce and distribute any other kind of media aimed at promoting their security apparatus? Not any more than anti-teen pregnancy campaigns. Your Nazi bogeyman obsession would extinguish any and all such media content, including recruiting, veterans affairs, "news from the front", military family support programs, police sponsored Toys for Tots, etc. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 What I am saying is that if they city wants to show they support the troops they should do something substantial: commission a plaque (or more substantial monument), or make an actual donation to the troops. Bumper stickers are seen about town - all over. Troops/vets/families don't have to go to a specific spot to see it, as they would a plaque or a monument. The bumper stickers are a cheap simple way to remind them/their families on a daily basis - all over - that they have the support of the nation they serve. Why anyone would object to that is difficult to understand. Quote
Remiel Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Bumper stickers are seen about town - all over. Troops/vets/families don't have to go to a specific spot to see it, as they would a plaque or a monument. The bumper stickers are a cheap simple way to remind them/their families on a daily basis - all over - that they have the support of the nation they serve. Why anyone would object to that is difficult to understand. Is it so difficult to understand that someone might object to superficial displays of patriotism becoming morally obligatory? Is there something wrong with showing a preference for the effort to be expended on something more substantial? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Is it so difficult to understand that someone might object to superficial displays of patriotism becoming morally obligatory? Is there something wrong with showing a preference for the effort to be expended on something more substantial? It's not as if there aren't more substantial things being done - this is on top of it, something that's a daily reminder that the nation they are serving is supporting them. How is that "superficial," and how is that a "display of patriotism?" Seems to me it's a display of support for troops who leave their lives and families behind to serve. They are people. They are not a political statement. Furthermore, how would government vehicles sporting these bumper stickers lead to making displays of patriotism morally obligatory?? It's merely a bumper sticker on government vehicles showing support to those who serve said nation. Simple as that. Quote
Remiel Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Furthermore, how would government vehicles sporting these bumper stickers lead to making displays of patriotism morally obligatory?? It's merely a bumper sticker on government vehicles showing support to those who serve said nation. Simple as that. Social pressure. Was it not mentioned in the article that part of the argument for having the stickers is that other jurisdictions have them? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Hey, I wonder if the bumper sticker haters also grind off "Made in Canada" from Magna car parts? Just sayin'.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Social pressure. Was it not mentioned in the article that part of the argument for having the stickers is that other jurisdictions have them? Nope. And social pressure most definitely was not an argument against them - it's all about "propaganda" and "military messages." Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 The military is part of the government so its not suprising that those lines inevitably get blurred... by people on both sides of the specrtum. I think very few people blur that line……….sure some support both, some support just the troops, and some support the troops but not the way the war was fought.... Because its a political message that promotes reverence of the governments security apparatus. Like I said before... where do you personally draw the line on this type of government activity? Do you draw one at all? Personally, I don’t feel we’re anywhere close to what I feel is “crossing a line”....I’d feel this “line” would be close to being crossed once our elected government declare the War measures act, mandatory service is put in place and our leader is referred to as Generalissimo for life.... Oh, and they make semi-auto rifles restricted.... Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Is it so difficult to understand that someone might object to superficial displays of patriotism becoming morally obligatory? Is there something wrong with showing a preference for the effort to be expended on something more substantial? The government isn’t forcing you to display “support the troops” stickers on your personal car.... Quote
eyeball Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I still don’t see how some draw the comparison between supporting the troops and supporting the mission....... So am I to understand you're ashamed of the mission? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Would there be anything wrong with Support the Mission or Support the State bumper stickers? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 So am I to understand you're ashamed of the mission? Personally, I’m supportive of the troops without question. Where I differ (on Iraq and Libya also) is in the civilian leaderships way of waging war....A little more Lee Marvin/Curtis LeMay/Arthur Harris and a lot less hearts & minds and nation building.... Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Would there be anything wrong with Support the Mission or Support the State bumper stickers? I've got a CPC bumper sticker, right next to my support the troops magnet.... Quote
dre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I've got a CPC bumper sticker, right next to my support the troops magnet.... I have one of those ribbon shaped magnets on my truck too... thought it might make the cops less likely to pull me over. Seems to work so far! Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I have one of those ribbon shaped magnets on my truck too... thought it might make the cops less likely to pull me over. Seems to work so far! Whatever works Quote
dre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 What I am saying is that if they city wants to show they support the troops they should do something substantial: commission a plaque (or more substantial monument), or make an actual donation to the troops. Or just treat em better! I was reading that vets account for a disproportionately large number of our homeless people. I wonder how much comfort a guy living under a highway overpass gets from seeing the odd car drive by with a ribbon. It almost seems like a dirty secret that people just like to ignore. Long as people got their little ribbon magnet theyre doin their part! Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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