Too few right wingers for the right to unite

[maplesyrup]

Too few right wingers for the right to unite

As long as there were two right-wing parties, the PCs and the Alliance (formerly Reform), the Liberals would always win — particularly in the country's Ontario heartland.

In the abstract, this seemed to make sense. In reality, it never did.

It assumed that all those who vote for a party calling itself conservative are right wingers.

It assumed that the Liberals are left wing.

And it assumed that a party that explicitly defined itself as right wing would somehow attract Canadians already content to support the implicitly right-of-centre Liberals.

As Monday's election showed, none of these assumptions held up.

"Life is beautiful today. Tony Clement lost."

This, probably more than any other reason, is why one has to question whether Harper has a future.

[Hjalmar]

This, probably more than any other reason, is why one has to question whether Harper has a future.

It is the main reason why Harper has a future, and a solid one at that. As the future evolves, nations worldwide are turning away from socialism

and the welfare state, and moving toward fiscal prudence and lower taxes in order to properly compete in a global economy.

The door was wide open for Jack Layton to make a breakthrough and what was the final result? You said it -- Conservatives 99 seats and NDP 19. When are you going to get out of la la land MS?

[maplesyrup]

You Conservatives guys had the best of all possible worlds.

Liberals mired in scandles, the backlash against McGuinty Liberals.

I doubt those conditions will continue to exist.

Right wingers have a lot of denial. It was the LEFT OF CENTRE parties that increased their share of the popular vote

The ball is now in Martin's court, once again.

[willy]

You Conservatives guys had the best of all possible worlds.

Did we really?

It takes an average of 21/2 years to merge corporations. We merged a party in 3 months. The inner workings of the party are still in disarray and that is to be expected.

We had a leadership race only a month before the election.

No time for a policy convention, which would for the first time in a long time brought the grass roots of the Conservative movement together.

For sure we will be more organized the next time around, and the policy convention will round out our platform.

This was always supposed to be a two election process knowing the Liberal would go early again and we just are guilty of high expectations that were not realistic.

Strategically the Liberals are now committing errors; they have moved left and left the middle open. It is now time for the Conservatives to occupy that space.

We lost this game but, we will be at it again soon enough.

[maplesyrup]

The Liberals are moving to the left.

Yup, no policy convention, so Harper and your MPs could say anything. And they sure did.

Willy.....right wingers are great with the hype. How about a little substance to at least attempt to back up suspect statements such as the one above, eh?.

[takeanumber]

It takes an average of 21/2 years to merge corporations. We merged a party in 3 months. The inner workings of the party are still in disarray and that is to be expected.

The party was never 'merged'.

See, because if it was 'merged', then the socially conservative MP's would have been drowned out by the howls of the socially centrist and socially progressive conservatives.

But see: that didn't happen.

Myron Thompson further chidded socially progressive cons by saying "we dont' want'em".

You combine that with all the statements comming out of the Alliance wing of the party, and you get a huge agenda problem.

The socially conservatives need to be purged from the party for it to have a chance.

It literally is, that easy.

Get rid of the Cheryl Gallants, the Randy White's, the John Reynold's, the Stockwell Days, the Jason Kenny's, the Diane Ablonzy's, and the Rob Anders...and substitute them with:

The B. Lords, J. Lords, the Stronachs (even though I'll say blergh), and the Charest's.

Right now, the party is too Alliance top heavy, and too Alliance bottom heavy. And all of the anti-progressive statements do NOTHING for building bridges to ameliorate the situation.

If anything, at least pre-merger, there might have been a chance for a PC-Alliance coalition government...one that would be moderated by the old PC's.

But, we all know how good MacKay's word is.

[maplesyrup]

How in the world did he get so much support?

He is a Nova Scotia embarassment.

Central Nova

Peter MacKay

Party: Conservative

Elected: Yes

Percent: 43.3%

Alexis MacDonald

Party: NDP

Elected: No

Percent: 27.7%

Susan Green

Party: Liberal

Elected: No

Percent: 26.4%

Other Parties

Party: Other

Elected: No

Percent: 2.7%

[takeanumber]

Anticipation of Patronage.

Nothing makes Nova Scotianers more wet than highway projects and the like.

They really figured that they'd win a minority, and then the pork would FLOW.

They'll deny it of course.

Then there are the solid 'family compact' votes that always vote for the Tories in that area, as a result of past pork.

I can't explain it any other way.

The man broke a signed contract. Worse, the courts refused to even consider his breach. (Conservative judge?).

So yeh. It's funny. Zero Credibility in my eyes.

Just like the old PC's eh? Has a Mulroney "gotcha" feeling.

Oh well. Brison saw it comming. I'm glad he crossed over.

[DAC]

The socially conservatives need to be purged from the party for it to have a chance.

takeanumber, I begin to think you are hammering this, not because you think it is true, but because you hope you will persuade the Conservatives to divide again.

The PCs effectively purged the social conservatives from their party, by marginalizing them, refusing to allow them any part in definition of policy, doing their best to exclude them from running, and muzzling them if they ran and won. The result of that was Reform, and the total collapse of the PCs.

If the same path is pursued again, the result can be expected to be the same. Closing your eyes to that reality does not get us anywhere in these discussions.

[Bro]

Only two reasons the Conservatives lost.

The first,Maritime Canada,afraid of losing the liberal handouts.I guess they like the kept mistress feeling.

The second ,Ontario,the province with their heads still up their ass.

Even without one seat from Quebec,the tories would have won a majority.

The problem,bought Canadians from Ontario will except

corruption from the liberals,as long as they are on the receiving end.Must be learning from their Maritime and Quebec counterparts.

[Alliance Fanatic]

It literally is, that easy.

Get rid of the Cheryl Gallants, the Randy White's, the John Reynold's, the Stockwell Days, the Jason Kenny's, the Diane Ablonzy's, and the Rob Anders...and substitute them with:

Whose going to talk for the 40% of Canadian's that are socially conservative and traditional. Oh yeah lets purge them, I believe that Stalin did that best maybe we should follow in his footsteps.

If their is no dissent of any moral, social, or economic matters Canada would be better off a dictatorship. I think that the left of centre would be perfectly fine with a dictator making sure that Canada remains a nation on the left.

[takeanumber]

Whose going to talk for the 40% of Canadian's that are socially conservative and traditional.

Who, pray thee, are these mystical 40%?

When I quote figures, they're based in reality.

When you quote figures, they're based in bullshit.

The VAST MAJORITY of Canadians are NOT socially conservative. MANY of those Canadians who ARE socially Conservative DO NOT THRUST their beliefs on everybody else.

It's this very small group, with such shining examples of tolerance like Cheryl Galant and oh yes, former MP Ramsey (you'll remember him, the MP who exposed himself to a teenage aboriginal when he was a mounty, yet, the Alliance all rallied around him like he was some kind of saint, I guess sexually abusin aboriginals is still kitch with those sickos in caucus), who insist on pushing their beliefs on others.

Sorry, the last time we let those people try their hand at social policy, we got the residential school program.

We're not letting you guys repeat those attrocities again.

No, I'm sorry, but the Burqua stays in the closet for another 2 years.

[idealisttotheend]

Whose going to talk for the 40% of Canadian's that are socially conservative and traditional. Oh yeah lets purge them,

I believe, AF, that these socially conservative can live their socially conservative lives in freedom and harmony. After all no one who doesn't want a gay marriage will have one nor will abortions be perfromed on the unwilling. And if you think that no one should be able to be gay or have abortions than you are nore than welcome to try to convince them individually of this. It's hard work but if it is as important as you say it is than I'm sure you and your bretheran are up to the challenge.

The one thing that the socially conservative and traditional will not be allowed to do is to use the state to force their views on other Canadians through laws making these things illegal. THAT, would be Stalinesque, or at least closer to it than anything you accuse of being Stalinesque or "like Cuba."

[maplesyrup]

Canadians swung left in election

“I've heard people say anecdotally, ‘My mother went into a booth to vote Conservative and came out Liberal,'” said John Wright, senior vice president at the Ipsos-Reid polling firm

The Liberals are left wing. Good ole yankee doodle analysis

[caesar]

The Liberals are the closest to center which is why they keep getting elected. They are right of the NDP but left of the Conservatives. Our BC "Liberals" are as right as Harper's Conservatives.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Thats it, I'm getting sick of all these goddamn left wingers talking about how much higher than they are of Canadian's.

poll's consistently show 50% of Canadian's are against same sex marriage, 40% believe abortion is immoral [left wingers love taxpayer funded abortion], a large portion are against the HRC forcing communities to have gay pride parades.

Some school's force christian students to read materials talking about the beauty of the gay lifestyle, so shut it about freedom. All freedom is to you left wingers is the freedom for a 50 year old creep to nail a 14 year old boy.

Yeah MS, and Ceaser all Canadian's believe in your goddamn ideals, thats why they elected the NDP to a goddamn majority how brilliant.

I'm getting sick of all these goddamn left wingers who have nothing to contribute to society, and think that big government is the greatest thing ever to happen to this country because then you can get your welfare checks for being a lazy slob, and get taxpayer funded abortions for the next girl you knock up while she's drunk. Why don't you all move back to Cuba, my family came here, we built this country, and we shed blood for it, and now all of you fing left wingers want to destroy this country. You think that your views are all that matters. I know that most young people are left wing, but then again this is the generation that thinks that date-rape is a sport, and only cares about getting laid and getting free marijauna so they can get high and not contribute anything to our country.

[takeanumber]

Thats it, I'm getting sick of all these goddamn left wingers talking about how much higher than they are of Canadian's.

Don't like it, don't read it.

poll's consistently show 50% of Canadian's are against same sex marriage, 40% believe abortion is immoral [left wingers love taxpayer funded abortion], a large portion are against the HRC forcing communities to have gay pride parades.

Wrong on the polls. They don't show that. Nice try though.

Gay pride parades? What's wrong with them?

don't like them, don't go. What gives you the right to get up into other people's business and impose your beliefs on everybody else?

Some school's force christian students to read materials talking about the beauty of the gay lifestyle, so shut it about freedom. All freedom is to you left wingers is the freedom for a 50 year old creep to nail a 14 year old boy.

Well, Christian parents can opt their kids out of sex ed.

I suppose that's just an incovinient fact for you.

Most left wingers don't defend the right for a 50yo creep to have sex with a 14yo boy.

I think you might be thinking of Mr. Ramsey. You'll remember him. He's the conservative that you creeps rallied around when it came to light that he had sexually assaulted aboriginal girls while he was an RCMP officer.

How quickly you forget.

Oh yes, and let's not forget the residential schools. See, the last time we let you Right wing christian fanatics into policy, you had to go sexually assaulting every aboriginal you saw.

Never again.

I'm getting sick of all these goddamn left wingers who have nothing to contribute to society,

I'm gettins sick of all these goddam right wingers who have nothing to contribute to society except hatred and rhetoric and intolerance for anybody who dares to think differently than them.

and think that big government is the greatest thing ever to happen to this country because then you can get your welfare checks for being a lazy slob, and get taxpayer funded abortions for the next girl you knock up while she's drunk.

Oh yes, and Right wingers who think that big government should give farmers endless amounts of money to support their lifestyles, and give tax breaks to oil companies, and defraud public corporations, with their lazy jobs playing at gold courts, with government funded PORK and BAILOUTS, while they go and knock up their secretaries and prostitutes downtown.

Why don't you all move back to Cuba, my family came here, we built this country, and we shed blood for it, and now all of you fing left wingers want to destroy this country.

Why don' t you move back to Germany and be a bigot against those minorities there?

We shed blood for this country, WE BUILT IT, and you right wingers just want to destroy this country with intolerance, and bigotry, and bringing the Church back in to politics after we spent so many years to banish them from it.

No, you're the destroyer of the country, not the centrists or the leftists. It's you bastards talking about seperatism out west.

I know that most young people are left wing, but then again this is the generation that thinks that date-rape is a sport, and only cares about getting laid and getting free marijauna so they can get high and not contribute anything to our country.

It was your generation who invented systematic rape and himiliation of other cultures.

It was your generation that denied voting rights to women in Quebec, up until when? 1964?

When did natives get to vote? 1970?

Are you proud of your legacy?

Now YOU'RE the minority, in a country of minorities.

You'll always be in the minority.

So suck it up, cupcake.

[idealisttotheend]

Nice diatribe AF.

Some points:

[left wingers love taxpayer funded abortion], 

My "spider sense" is telling me that if abortions weren't paid for than you'd be unhappy about the welfare costs associated with unwanted children. And if the welfare costs weren't paid you'd be unhappy with the costs of keeping a large portion of them in jail if their parent's didn't take care of them well or they were too poor to develope appropriately. I don't like abortion much really either but I don't think the Right is willing to pay the costs associated with it's invective.

a large portion are against the HRC forcing communities to have gay pride parades.

When the "HRC" starts forcing you to go to the parades or march in them, that would be when I'd start to get concerned. Otherwise how does people marching up and down the streets in downtown hurt you? I agree with TN, just don't go but don't try to stop other people from going.

You have no right.

Some school's force christian students to read materials talking about the beauty of the gay lifestyle, so shut it about freedom.

I am not sure that this is true. But even if it was, if the child's faith is strong then they will see that the gay lifestyle is wrong for them and this material will not affect them. Surely we should not be censoring our schools, that would be quite totalitarian (like Stalin and Cuba).

I won't even deal with the last paragraph. If you could provide some evidence that young people now consider date rape a sport or that anyone on the Left contributes nothing at all to society it might be an interesting discussion.

Remember AF, Jesus was almost "left wing" in many, many of his teachings, (for example you may want to try loving, or at least respecting, your left wing neighbours). This is a fact forgotten by far too many people today. Also, the Church was the largest bureaucracy (or 'government') in the world for most of human history post 0 AD..

[caesar]

Alliance; your fanatic right wing nonsense will get you nowhere. Your nasty little remarks are unwelcome.

Your Conservatives only garnered around 29% of the votes; many votes that you would not have gotten had some Liberals not gotten so arrogant; much of the anti government voters; they usually don't even know or understand the issues.

By the way Fanatic; I am NOT left; I am not right; I am right in the center with a left tinge. OK

This right wing western Conservatives seems to have been borne from Alberta greed. Now that Alberta is a wealthy province; they don't want to share. I still remember a few years back; to solve their wish to reduce welfare rolls; they handed welfare recipients a one way bus ticket to BC. Pawning off their responsibilities on others. Your greedy, selfish Conservative party would be willing to sell your soul to the devil (G W Bush) for the almighty dollar. We more rounded citizens consider things other than money.

[Bro]

The problem with a liberal or leftist point of view.If,you allow an increasing tolerance of all things,they become commonplace,and can never be repealed .

Some of your tolerant views are not good for people,

so rather than saying yes all the time to some of your more radical changes to society,think about the outcome.

Liberal governing has created far more societal problems than it has on improving the welfare of the Canadian people.I think the point most conservatives will agree on,is that you are entitled to express your views,ie the gay parades which adorn the Main street of most larger cities,but don't exxpect the Canadian taxpayer to fund it.

Hospitals ,all the time have to fight for funding,even after many hours of volunteer hours being logged.

Using the gay parade as an example,volunteers from the gay community should look for donations,and if none are forthcoming,then maybe the Canadian populace is not in favour of them as much as we told by government,in order that they will be allowed to fund it,and thus shore up the gay vote one issue only.Does not sound democratic to me.

[takeanumber]

Using the gay parade as an example,volunteers from the gay community should look for donations,and if none are forthcoming,then maybe the Canadian populace is not in favour of them as much as we told by government,in order that they will be allowed to fund it,and thus shore up the gay vote one issue only.Does not sound democratic to me.

The money is there for all sorts of events.

Gay pride parades are terrific events for inner city neighborhoods and boost those communities.

What do you have against communities?

[August1991]

We shed blood for this country, WE BUILT IT, and you right wingers just want to destroy this country with intolerance, and bigotry, and bringing the Church back in to politics after we spent so many years to banish them from it.

IYV, does right wing = evil and we = good?

You seem to suggest that everything you dislike is right wing. Wouldn't it be better to say "social conservative" instead of "right wing"?

I think the point raised elsewhere is that the Conservatives should be more "fiscal conservatives" and less "social conservatives". I wouldn't exactly call this a "Red Tory" position.

[playfullfellow]

When did natives get to vote? 1970?

Ummmmmmmm, the natives got the vote in 1960. It was Diefenbaker who enstated that and wow, he was a conservative. Go figure. Deifenbaker was also anti Apartheid.

It was your generation that denied voting rights to women in Quebec, up until when? 1964?

Quebec was indeed the last province to allow women to vote but the year was 1940. I dont think there are too many people on this forum that can say it is their legacy, not too many 104 year olds here given the age of 40 for a politician back then. BTW, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta were the first provinces to implement the female vote in 1916.

[Bro]

The parades are terrific events for inner city neighborhoods and boost those communities.

If all city neighbourhoods and communities so willingly support them as a good thing,then each one should be able to pay for it on their own means.If the taxpayer has to fund it,you can be sure the majority of people do not think it is a positive influence on their neighbourhood or community.

Why don't you fight for money to fund hospitals,is that not a more worthwhile use of taxpayer dollars?My local liberal mp said it was #1 priority for his bid to get elected.

Did he lie,or what?

[Alliance Fanatic]

I think you might be thinking of Mr. Ramsey. You'll remember him. He's the conservative that you creeps rallied around when it came to light that he had sexually assaulted aboriginal girls while he was an RCMP officer.

Yeah thats why he was kicked out of the caucus and was'nt given the nomination for the Canadian Alliance. Oh yeah and he attempted to rape a girl, one girl, not considered a sexual assualt. You don't even know what your talking about.

I know that you think that those Canadian's that fought in World War 2 for this country are all nazi's who were fighting for an evil country, but some of us believe that this country has a great history.

By the way did'nt your best friend Pierre Trudeau go around in a german uniform during world war 2 and mock those that went to fight in the war. Oh yeah and did'nt he also support pedophile Mao of china, even while Canadian troops were fighting in Korea. Thats lucky that he enlightened all of us right wing bigots and destroyed that country.

Was'nt it a white christian that ended the slave trade, did'nt Martin Luther King jr say that our laws should be based on the laws of the bible. What a bigot eh.

Did'nt the fathers of confederation say that this country should be built to the glory of god. Oh yeah their bigots and you guys successfully destroyed that country.

My "spider sense" is telling me that if abortions weren't paid for than you'd be unhappy about the welfare costs associated with unwanted children. And if the welfare costs weren't paid you'd be unhappy with the costs of keeping a large portion of them in jail if their parent's didn't take care of them well or they were too poor to develope appropriately. I don't like abortion much really either but I don't think the Right is willing to pay the costs associated with it's invective.

Well you guys prefer killing them so costs don't sky rocket. Why not put those babies up for adoption to loving families instead of killing them.

Your greedy, selfish Conservative party would be willing to sell your soul to the devil (G W Bush) for the almighty dollar. We more rounded citizens consider things other than money.

You support killing unwanted babies through taxpayer funded abortion, and support all lifestyles as long as you are pleasured by it right. Thats why you guys support de-criminalizing drugs, setting up red light districts, legalizing prostitution, because it will give people "pleasure" but not life. I believe more in helping people and putting away those scumbags that abuse human lives rather than legalizing everything so that we become a society based on anarchy and pleasure rather than on life and civil order.

You guys think that you are all so compassionate. You are'nt, you guys want to give people "pleasure" thats about it.

happiness to me is a person living life with a purpose, and living his best, not smoking week, or having anal/oral sex with another man.

I had a relative who was gay, died at 35 of AID's.

Why don't we have christian pride day, oh yeah you lefties would probably complain to the HRC and would win. Talk about a double standard.

Remember AF, Jesus was almost "left wing" in many, many of his teachings, (for example you may want to try loving, or at least respecting, your left wing neighbours). This is a fact forgotten by far too many people today. Also, the Church was the largest bureaucracy (or 'government') in the world for most of human history post 0 AD..

Did Jesus tell men to have anal sex with other men, did Jesus tell kids that Marijauna was a wonderful drug, did Jesus ever support prostitutes telling them that its good to prostitute themselves for money. No, he loved them, and helped people to get out of those lifestyles, Jesus was compassionate and loved all of mankind, and died for man even though they had problems in their lives. Left wingers tend to support anything that would bring about "pleasure".

It was your generation who invented systematic rape and himiliation of other cultures.

It was my grandfathers generation that lived through world war 2 and the depression. It was my grandfathers generation that had given up so much for this country, only to see it be destroyed by your generation. Stop calling that country evil, it was'nt no matter what you say. We fought against those that wanted to destroy human life, it my grandfathers generation that saw this nation prosper because of hard work, honest, social justice, and the value of life.

It was your generation takeanumber that was the "me" generation, all they ever cared about was themselves. Thats why date rape sky rocketed, that is why drug use sky rocketed. It was the hippy generation that created the plague of drugs on our society, it is that left wing generation that created the problems with prostitution, drugs, and STD's.

When the name of facism come to North America it will come in the name of anti-facism.

Takeanumber your a facist, because you call anybody that disagrees with you a facist.