Bonam Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm kinda apathetic as well. Those TV ads about starving kids in Africa have been there since before I was born. Nothing's changed. Besides that, I certainly don't think shipping food over there is gonna solve anything. And people who try to go help there put themselves in great personal danger. Better to stay out of it and not interfere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 What!!!! NO!!!!!!!!! Famine in Somalia? That shining beacon of libertarianism and the merits of having no central government "on our backs"? My minarchist libertarian utopia wasnt supposed to have famine and pirates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm kinda apathetic as well. Those TV ads about starving kids in Africa have been there since before I was born. Nothing's changed. Besides that, I certainly don't think shipping food over there is gonna solve anything. And people who try to go help there put themselves in great personal danger. Better to stay out of it and not interfere. The west has a huge agricultural surplus though. Its easy to share food and basic medicine with these people, and as long as this kind of direct aid is accompanied by other programs that help them develop economically its actually quite effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 The west has a huge agricultural surplus though. Its easy to share food and basic medicine with these people, and as long as this kind of direct aid is accompanied by other programs that help them develop economically its actually quite effective. They've been doing that since my childhood as well. Lotta Hitschmanova, et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 They've been doing that since my childhood as well. Lotta Hitschmanova, et al. Yup and by every objective measure Iv seen its made a pretty big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Yup and by every objective measure Iv seen its made a pretty big difference. You're kidding, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 The west has a huge agricultural surplus though. Its easy to share food and basic medicine with these people, and as long as this kind of direct aid is accompanied by other programs that help them develop economically its actually quite effective. No...it is not "easy" or inexpensive to share food and medicine. The US is already in for over half a billion dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 You're kidding, right? No not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 No not at all. So things in Africa...in your opinion...have gotten better rather than worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 No...it is not "easy" or inexpensive to share food and medicine. The US is already in for over half a billion dollars. Thats chump change. Very inexpensive indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thats chump change. Very inexpensive indeed. So where's your half a billion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 So things in Africa...in your opinion...have gotten better rather than worse? Without a doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thats chump change. Very inexpensive indeed. True...one finds 500 million dollars in the sock drawer all the time...so easy to forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 So where's your half a billion? I dont need to come up with half a billion to match your contribution. Based on the number you gave me, you have spent about a buck fifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) True...one finds 500 million dollars in the sock drawer all the time...so easy to forget. There isnt one person in America genius. Your personal share of that 1/2 billion is about a buck fifty, and thats definately a "sock drawer" ammount for most people. The ammount of money youre whining about spending couldnt even buy a bag of fuckin cheetos. Edited July 26, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I dont need to come up with half a billion to match your contribution. Based on the number you gave me, you have spent about a buck fifty. You haven't even given that much....just crocodile tears as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 You haven't even given that much....just crocodile tears as usual. Actually I just did my taxes for last year, and I gave a lot more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Actually I just did my taxes for last year, and I gave a lot more than that. Sure you did....Somalia is saved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Sure you did....Somalia is saved! No it isnt "saved". But thats a mildy amusing and retarded strawman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 No it isnt "saved". But thats a mildy amusing and retarded strawman! I work with Somali immigrants every weekday.....they send you their warmest thanks for...nuthin! The cure for their famine was emigrating and working in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I work with Somali immigrants every weekday.....they send you their warmest thanks for...nuthin! The cure for their famine was emigrating and working in the USA. No wonder libertarianism is takin off down there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) The west has a huge agricultural surplus though. Its easy to share food and basic medicine with these people, and as long as this kind of direct aid is accompanied by other programs that help them develop economically its actually quite effective. No, it's not "easy" or "inexpensive". Hundreds of billions have been spent over the decades trying to "share". The opportunity cost of that must be considered. Is maintaining a vast, diseased, suffering population at a level far far above what can be sustained in that part of the world really the best use of those resources? How much less suffering would there have been if we had never helped, the population returned to normal levels, and the people were able to sustain themselves off the land? What could we have built with those hundreds of billions that could have made a real difference, here at home? Instead, we have crowded festering slums, infested with AIDS and countless other horrific diseases, jungles burned and trampled to mud by people looking for the last gorilla to eat or elephant's tusk to sell, and a dehumanized population pridelessly surviving off of foreign handouts, fighting neigboring tribes, raping and killing each other by the millions. How much better off would Africa be if a hundred million people lived there instead of a billion? The "aid" that we have provided has created the present situation by allowing the population to balloon out of control. Centuries from now, this "aid" will be remembered with as much regret as the colonization and enslavement of Africa is today. Then, too, Western intellectuals thought they were doing the right thing, "civilizing" the "savages". Today, we think we are "helping" them. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change, so long as we continue to meddle with primitive cultures. We must leave them alone and let them chart their own course and develop naturally. Edited July 26, 2011 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Centuries from now, this "aid" will be remembered with as much regret as the colonization and enslavement of Africa is today. Then, too, Western intellectuals thought they were doing the right thing, "civilizing" the "savages". Today, we think we are "helping" them. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change, so long as we continue to meddle with primitive cultures. We must leave them alone and let them chart their own course and develop naturally. That may yet turn out to be true, but the decision to not intervene can be as paternalistic as the decision to intervene. Once you have decided what " primitive cultures " can handle, you have already robbed them of the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 The crooks that control Somalia by force look at this famine as a helping hand in the genocide they promote. Most likely they even purposely created it, using the plight of starving people for their own benefit. I read that they block the food aid, or steal it, and use the funds to buy weapons. If there ever was a reason to invade a country to liberate its people, for justice, this is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 No, it's not "easy" or "inexpensive". Hundreds of billions have been spent over the decades trying to "share". The opportunity cost of that must be considered. Is maintaining a vast, diseased, suffering population at a level far far above what can be sustained in that part of the world really the best use of those resources? How much less suffering would there have been if we had never helped, the population returned to normal levels, and the people were able to sustain themselves off the land? What could we have built with those hundreds of billions that could have made a real difference, here at home? Instead, we have crowded festering slums, infested with AIDS and countless other horrific diseases, jungles burned and trampled to mud by people looking for the last gorilla to eat or elephant's tusk to sell, and a dehumanized population pridelessly surviving off of foreign handouts, fighting neigboring tribes, raping and killing each other by the millions. How much better off would Africa be if a hundred million people lived there instead of a billion? The "aid" that we have provided has created the present situation by allowing the population to balloon out of control. Centuries from now, this "aid" will be remembered with as much regret as the colonization and enslavement of Africa is today. Then, too, Western intellectuals thought they were doing the right thing, "civilizing" the "savages". Today, we think we are "helping" them. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change, so long as we continue to meddle with primitive cultures. We must leave them alone and let them chart their own course and develop naturally. How much less suffering would there have been if we had never helped, the population returned to normal levels, and the people were able to sustain themselves off the land? I dunno. Our impact hasnt been all negative... and not all aid is direct food aid. We also share all kinds of technology for things like farming, water filtration, etc. Over the last hundred years or so life expectancy has gone way up, and infant mortality has gone way down. Its insane to argue that things havent improved. As for "hundreds of billions of dollars". Thats a drop in the bucket. The western world has probably spent more than that on tampons or toilet paper over the same ammount of time. Weve given very little in relative terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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