Jack Weber Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Cool. Contact Corrections Canada and ask them to fill your street with paroled criminals. I'm sure you'll do a great job helping them "reintegrate" into society. The problem here,with your selective quoting,is that you missed the point about me being all for complete and harsh sentences... Typically simplistic... But can I assume you have no interest at all in rehabilitation and making wayward people understand they need to be functioning members of society instead of criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Why are we about to dump more money into prisons? That's rhetorical, the ideological blackhole works like this. Crime rate goes up: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to fight crime!" Crime rate goes down: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to make sure the crime rate doesn't go up!" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-crime-rate-at-lowest-level-in-almost-40-years-statscan/article2104745/ There are a few wackos around but for the most part the culture of Canada is not big on crime..we are nice....except some of those Asian gangs that stretch from Markham Ontario to British Columbia --- they are nice to and very careful not to get caught...maybe the crime rate is down because we have more imported and more sophisticated high end crooks? No conviction - no crime rate. Besides - look at our courts - you pay into the fund and you walk...in other words lawyers that are connected will assist the lowest of low for a price...again - no conviction no crime... I would safely assume that the crime rate has increased ...the only way you get the true numbers is out of the judical system - and they don't seem big on slamming the crooks these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 The problem here,with your selective quoting,is that you missed the point about me being all for complete and harsh sentences... Typically simplistic... But can I assume you have no interest at all in rehabilitation and making wayward people understand they need to be functioning members of society instead of criminals? You can assume I don't believe there is such a thing as government rehabilitation. What does it consist of? Have you ever seen it in action? People steal because it's easier to steal than to get an education. It's easier to steal than to learn a trade or look for a job. It's easier to defraud people than do an honest day's work. It's easier to rape someone than to get their consent. It's easier to kill someone than to work out your problems. Crime is easy. People who do it aren't going to be 'rehabilitated' as long as they see their criminal behavior as viable. And the only way I know of to teach them it's NOT is long prison terms. But maybe you think that if you hold their hands, and talk gently to them, and inform them of all the harm they cause others they'll get an attack of conscience and go get a job. Fine, you try that with the next criminal we house next door to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Right. Corrections Canada themselves are criminals. LOFL! Are you seriously acting like a buffoon over my suggestion a government department will fudge its definitions and terms in order to make itself look better? Read the article when you can and get back to me. Stop posting dead links and maybe I'll read them. Anyone can make shit up. The Sun did an admirable job in this regard 7 years ago. What kind of an argument is that from a guy who just brayed like an ass over the suggestion correction Canada would post misleading figures? At least my link was actually readable, and the information it contained was straight from CSC. The report was from Corrections Canada after all. Dead link. You have no argument. You can leave now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 The only thing that needs to be said anymore about this issue is that conservatives are f&*king morons when it comes to crime although Conservatives are brilliant when it comes to keeping these stupid pinheads in a state of breathless diarrhea and chest-pains while paralyzing the opposition with it's soft on crime label. Myself, I'm sick to death of suffering these assholes gladly anymore and I suggest the Opposition take the only approach that's left given the corner it's in - time to get mean on stupid. Forget the niceties, go for the throat and tell the country that the Conservatives are just plain stupid on crime. Why? Because they're morons. It's real simple. People actually want morons running the country? Give your head a shake. Done with your rant? Wipe the drool off your chin and light up some more weed. You'll feel better then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Done with your rant? Wipe the drool off your chin and light up some more weed. You'll feel better then. Bite me. What do you think Harper means when he sings about getting high with his friends? I can only imagine the PR mileage these sphincters would be aiming for if any politician from any other party was on record singing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I would fully support sentencing people of white collar crimes to work on road crews. But we'll never see the day. Road crews, farms, factories - some of which are in operation already. Restorative justice and diversionary programs, etc. Like it or not, prisons are a necessity. If they build a few more, it should be seen as bennefiting prisoners. Prisons are a necessity. But not the only necessity. My own feeling is that we should be targeting gangs and gun crimes and make sure there's enough room to put those involved away for a long time. When innocent bystanders get shot in the middle of the day by gang members, it's time something was done. I agree, but we would likely disagree on approach. You didn't answer the question about you being a convict. Because it is an irrelevant question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 It just took us twelve years to extradite someone to China. That's twice as long as it took us to fight WWII. You must be dreaming. Your single instance to comdemn an entire system is duly noted. Do you have 10,000 other instances you can cite please? You know, for a little weight to your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Are you seriously acting like a buffoon over my suggestion a government department will fudge its definitions and terms in order to make itself look better? No I am calling you out as a buffoon for posting a link stating that Corrections Canada was fudging it's numbers in order to make itself look better, but when the chief complaintants of such an act finally get into government, such fudged numbers are still posted on their website. What's up with that, eh Scotty? Stop posting dead links and maybe I'll read them The link not working isn't my fault. What kind of an argument is that from a guy who just brayed like an ass over the suggestion correction Canada would post misleading figures? I think it is hilarious that you would hold the argument that prisons aren't working, so let's build more of them. And to add to the hilarity, you post an article from the Sun, outlining how much prisons aren't working and that CSC "fudged" their numbers in order to "make themselves look good" all the while failing to notice that 7 years later the numbers are still the same - even posted on the CSC website - even though the Conservatives now form the government. Your innocence is surreal. At least my link was actually readable, and the information it contained was straight from CSC. Wait for the CSC site to come back up. Then you can read it all for yourself and perhaps make your own mind up instead of being like a reactionary conservative dupe. Dead link. You have no argument. You can leave now. I would, but I like it when you blatantly contradict yourself. It's fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 You can assume I don't believe there is such a thing as government rehabilitation. What does it consist of? Have you ever seen it in action? People steal because it's easier to steal than to get an education. It's easier to steal than to learn a trade or look for a job. It's easier to defraud people than do an honest day's work. It's easier to rape someone than to get their consent. It's easier to kill someone than to work out your problems. Crime is easy. People who do it aren't going to be 'rehabilitated' as long as they see their criminal behavior as viable. And the only way I know of to teach them it's NOT is long prison terms. But maybe you think that if you hold their hands, and talk gently to them, and inform them of all the harm they cause others they'll get an attack of conscience and go get a job. Fine, you try that with the next criminal we house next door to you. Not everyone is as you think. People make mistakes too. Those who regret their actions, who WANT to be rehabilitated, deserve a second chance. That's the Canada I want to live in. If you don't see any room for rehab and forgiveness, move to Saudi Arabia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Not everyone is as you think. People make mistakes too. Those who regret their actions, who WANT to be rehabilitated, deserve a second chance. That's the Canada I want to live in. If you don't see any room for rehab and forgiveness, move to Saudi Arabia. Those who actually understand they made a mistake, and regret what they did don't NEED rehabilitation. Those who have a long string of convictions are not going to be rehabilitated by anything you can think of. If you want to discourage them from doing what they're doing you have to punish them more severely until they finally decide it's not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 No I am calling you out as a buffoon for posting a link stating that Corrections Canada was fudging it's numbers in order to make itself look better, but when the chief complaintants of such an act finally get into government, such fudged numbers are still posted on their website. What's up with that, eh Scotty? Do you expect me to explain the workings of bureaucracy, and why the Tories haven't smashed heads at CSC? You think I have Harper's ear or something? I think it is hilarious that you would hold the argument that prisons aren't working, so let's build more of them. And to add to the hilarity, you post an article from the Sun, outlining how much prisons aren't working and that CSC "fudged" their numbers in order to "make themselves look good" all the while failing to notice that 7 years later the numbers are still the same - even posted on the CSC website - even though the Conservatives now form the government. Your innocence is surreal. When I read that and try to picture someone actually saying it out loud, I get the image of some guy with bulging eyes and a high pitched voice, waving his hands wildly as his voice rise and falls like someone on crack who keeps touching a live electrical wire. What the hell are you trying say anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Those who actually understand they made a mistake, and regret what they did don't NEED rehabilitation. Sure they do. I can give a couple of examples. Alcoholics who committed assault while drunk, Drug addicts, and people who can't control their emotions and harmed someone in the heat of passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Do you expect me to explain the workings of bureaucracy, and why the Tories haven't smashed heads at CSC? You think I have Harper's ear or something? No, I wouldn't expect you to explain something to which you have no clue and lookee here, you oblige. When I read that and try to picture someone actually saying it out loud, I get the image of some guy with bulging eyes and a high pitched voice, waving his hands wildly as his voice rise and falls like someone on crack who keeps touching a live electrical wire.What the hell are you trying say anyway? To bad your intellect doesn't match your visual imagination, although I can see that being problematic, what with all your hysteria and all. Here is what I am trying to say: So You Want to Know the Recidivism Rate Why would you want to keep people in jail longer when the recidivisim rate is rather low? Keeping people - who likely won't re-offend - in jail longer only leads to increased costs of incarceration and overcrowding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 ...Why would you want to keep people in jail longer when the recidivisim rate is rather low? Keeping people - who likely won't re-offend - in jail longer only leads to increased costs of incarceration and overcrowding. Is that where the term "hug-a-thug" comes from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) Is that where the term "hug-a-thug" comes from? "Hug-a-thug?" That is so last century. The heat has been turned up on the rhetorical sound bytes nowadays and it is called 'hug a rapist.' Haven't you heard? Edited July 25, 2011 by Shwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) "Hug-a-thug?" That is so last century. The heat has been turned up on the rhetorical sound bytes nowadays and it is called 'hug a rapist.' Haven't you heard? Why stop there....with Karla Homolka....it's "hug-a-sexual-torturer-and-murderer". Edited July 25, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Your single instance to comdemn an entire system is duly noted. Do you have 10,000 other instances you can cite please? You know, for a little weight to your position. Why should I have to cite 10,000, but how about Charles Ng, he took even longer? I'll bet you real money that Orantes Sosa uses the system for more than a decade before he gets the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 According to the article, the homicide rate dropped to its lowest since 1966. And I doubt homicides are chief among the "unreported crimes" that the government likes to talk about. how does one arrest someone for an unreported crime? do we put imaginary criminals in prisons? do we spend real money on imaginary prisons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Why stop there....with Karla Homolka....it's "hug-a-sexual-torturer-and-murderer". How about "Hug-a-genocidal-maniac?" No wait, the government has put up wanted posters for them now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Why should I have to cite 10,000, but how about Charles Ng, he took even longer? I'll bet you real money that Orantes Sosa uses the system for more than a decade before he gets the boot. You are still using the exception to prove the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 how does one arrest someone for an unreported crime? do we put imaginary criminals in prisons? do we spend real money on imaginary prisons? Well now that is interesting wyly, because yes we do "spend real money on imaginary prisons." It is called "architecture." That and planning, consultants, PR campaigns to make the populace afraid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Overcrowding, gangs causing increase Canadian prison violence: report Exactly. I wasn't going to provide a link, but the obvious reality is that lower crime rates do not mean we need less prisons, as the foolish OP is trying to suggest. If prisons are overcrowded and cannot safely accept more criminals, which seems to have been the case for a long time, then current crime rates being lower doesn't alleviate the existing stresses on this part of the justice system. The fact that this even has to be explained further depresses me about the average intellect of Canadians.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Exactly. I wasn't going to provide a link, but the obvious reality is that lower crime rates do not mean we need less prisons, as the foolish OP is trying to suggest. Show me exactly where I said we need less prisons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 You are still using the exception to prove the rule. Got a feeling it wouldn't matter how many "exceptions" I provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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