dre Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 No, yours is the typical zero sum gain way of thinking proven wrong in the past...and present. Bring on your commie bogeymen...and I will show you their concurrent black market of riches. No it hasnt been proven wrong. In fact its been proven right by every successful modern democracy on the planet, including your own. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 No it hasnt been proven wrong. In fact its been proven right by every successful modern democracy on the planet, including your own. If you mean the wealth management strategies that keep the unwashed masses from clawing back that which is not theirs....splendid! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 There is no comparison and you know it since the workers are free to quit their job (and face the consequences). Why don't you explain exactly what you think those 5000 workers would be doing if they were not building ships. Subsistence farming? Begging in the street? You can't seriously argue that there are better options available. Frankly,it's a sidways move... Barely survive being a subsistence farmer...Or barely survive in a dangerous shipyard... Gotta love the "freedom" of that Hobsian choice...But "free" markets are alL about "choice",right? But hey!...You free marketeers get to talk about the fact that those ships are built cheaper than here,and you can con yourselves into thinking that your economic theories are really the modern cutting edge of humanitarianism.. All the while,pissing away a viable,well paying industry here by either forcing Canadian shipyard workers to work for less than they are worth or not working ina well paying trade at all and reducing the standrad of living of those people... The race to the bottom continues... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Its not MY notion, its actually known as western civilization. And its a fuck of a lot more reasonable, than socialism or communism which is where extreme concentration of wealth will take us. Spot on...The followers of Free Market economics (see selfish,individualistic greed) never seem to understand that what they are advocating for (essentially a global version of 17th,18th,and,19th century European Mercantilism) had dire historical circumstances for millions of people... Sadly,there is going to be a day of reckoning for this selfish thought process... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
eyeball Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 The race to the bottom continues... We just need a big cushion to soften the landing. I suggest we use the rich, especially the fat one's. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 We just need a big cushion to soften the landing. I suggest we use the rich, especially the fat one's. Sadly,as the race to the bottom continues and the concentration of wealth ends up into fewer and fewer hands... There are'nt even enough fat ones to saves us from that crash landing... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
eyeball Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Sadly,as the race to the bottom continues and the concentration of wealth ends up into fewer and fewer hands... There are'nt even enough fat ones to saves us from that crash landing... Oh well, take as many of the bastards with us as we can if that's the case. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Oh well, take as many of the bastards with us as we can if that's the case. That would be a nice change after riding on the backs of the "poor" so long. Pick your own food for a change. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 That would be a nice change after riding on the backs of the "poor" so long. Pick your own food for a change. Or eat the rich. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Or eat the rich. A nice change from your present low rent diet. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Or eat the rich. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
eyeball Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 A nice change from your present low rent diet. I certainly hope so. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Motorhead official online sales: http://shop.imotorhead.com/shop.cfm/pk/category/ac/list/cid/400060 ...only $25 + shipping for a T-shirt! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 It is not ideology at all. I am talking about the cold hard facts of economics. If businesses in this country cannot produce goods and services that can be exported for a profit then we will not be able to maintain our standard of living. To make a profit, businesses must be more productive than competitors elsewhere. There is only so much productivity improvements that can be gained with technology because competitors are getting really good at imitating technological leaps. I think the onus is on you to explain how businesses in this country are supposed to turn a profit if they are saddled with endlessly increasing wage demands and taxes to support a public service which unreasonable expectations. Remember - resource revenue only generates so much and that is getting diluted by the massive immigration levels. Sustainable prosperity must come from private businesses making profits. So what is your plan to ensure that private businesses can make a profit while employing people in this country and competing internationally? Frankly, I have lost track of the number of Canadian companies that I know which are doing all of their new hiring overseas because they can get the same work done for less. More taxes and regulation are not going reverse this trend. The jobs Canadians are losing to developing countries are mostly low-wage jobs with no education needed. It takes minimal training to work on an assembly line or answer phones at a call center. OECD countries have the edge in technology, money, and education. With R&D, and we have the educated people to do it and rich people to fund it. I see no end in sight with our edge in smart, educated people to run businesses and create new products and put up the money to invest in these businesses/products. OECD countries will provide the brains, developing countries will continually provide the "brawn" in manufacturing as well as other crappy jobs Canadians would rather not do compared to other more creative and satisfying jobs. Canada has entered a post-industrial, information economy. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 The jobs Canadians are losing to developing countries are mostly low-wage jobs with no education needed. It takes minimal training to work on an assembly line or answer phones at a call center. OECD countries have the edge in technology, money, and education. With R&D, and we have the educated people to do it and rich people to fund it. I see no end in sight with our edge in smart, educated people to run businesses and create new products and put up the money to invest in these businesses/products. OECD countries will provide the brains, developing countries will continually provide the "brawn" in manufacturing as well as other crappy jobs Canadians would rather not do compared to other more creative and satisfying jobs. Canada has entered a post-industrial, information economy. I agree,as it applies to "unskilled labour"... Sadly,we are losing skilled labour jobs at an alarming rate based not on skill,but that fact these things can be done simply cheaper somewhere else... This county's standard of living will not be maintained if that does not stop... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Moonlight Graham Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Sadly,we are losing skilled labour jobs at an alarming rate based not on skill,but that fact these things can be done simply cheaper somewhere else... Jobs such as what? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
TimG Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) The jobs Canadians are losing to developing countries are mostly low-wage jobs with no education needed. It takes minimal training to work on an assembly line or answer phones at a call center.Not true anymore. Any skilled job that does not need to be done on premises is being outsourced. It affects engineers, doctors, scientists, financial analysts, jounrnalists, lawyers, and more.OECD countries have the edge in technology, money, and education. With R&D, and we have the educated people to do it and rich people to fund it.A startup will have a tough time getting financing nowadays if they don't plan to outsource at least some of their R&D. The only advantage we have now is the senior experienced people are mostly in the OECD countries. But that advantage will be gone in 10-20 years because the next generation is not getting trained. Edited July 23, 2011 by TimG Quote
Jack Weber Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Jobs such as what? Name it... I don't mean the guy who puts bolt A into hole B,but the person who actually has gone to school and got a trade.... Edited July 23, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
cybercoma Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 It's been a long time since I've read Adam Smith, but I seem to recall feeling as though he would roll over in his grave at what has become of free-markets. Considering his work was called The Wealth of Nations, I'm not really sure it's a prescription for global trade. Quote
TimG Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) It's been a long time since I've read Adam Smith, but I seem to recall feeling as though he would roll over in his grave at what has become of free-markets.And your alternative is what? Protectionism? Subsidies? The trouble with protectionism is it is a two way street. Every job that is protected from imports another is lost as other countries respond in kind. And that does not even take into account the effect higher than necessary prices have on the economy. Edited July 23, 2011 by TimG Quote
Bonam Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 And your alternative is what? Protectionism? Subsidies? The trouble with protectionism is it is a two way street. Every job that is protected from imports another is lost as other countries respond in kind. That assumes an equivalence between imports and exports and the amount of jobs needed to produce each, which of course is not generally the case. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 If you mean the wealth management strategies that keep the unwashed masses from clawing back that which is not theirs....splendid! Heaven forbid that the unwashed masses who have claws - attempt to even think about touching a rich guys stuff. I say chop off their claws before they scratch the furniture. Yes good wealth management can be best described as a successful man who invents potatoe chips...and feeds the stupid things to billions...you would think that the mass would have the rights to a few shares in the company? Quote
CPCFTW Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Heaven forbid that the unwashed masses who have claws - attempt to even think about touching a rich guys stuff. I say chop off their claws before they scratch the furniture. Yes good wealth management can be best described as a successful man who invents potatoe chips...and feeds the stupid things to billions...you would think that the mass would have the rights to a few shares in the company? If it's so easy why don't you just invent something? This is the crux of the left's position: jealousy. Anyone who is more successful than them is "evil". Edited July 26, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
eyeball Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 This is the crux of the left's position: jealousy. Anyone who is more successful than them is "evil". Horseshit. The crux of this lefty's position is that anyone who's success is predicated on the playing field being tilted in their direction is a waste of skin. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 I always thought the left's position was that the success of society is more important than the success of individuals. Quote
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