RNG Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland are not ruled by a King or Queen either. So, I'd guess you'd reject the term United Kingdom also? The difference between a name and a description. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Sandy MacNab Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 The Queen is also where the government draws its power from, though. Hence the term "The Crown". Quote
Smallc Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 Hence the term "The Crown". Yes, and I think that's what Bambino was saying when he talked about the Queen being the government. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 We're a de facto Republic. While court cases are R v, criminal law is written by the democratically elected parliament. The Governor General is picked by the leader of the party that gets the most democratically elected seats and is a Canadian citizen. I still believe that if you want to consider us a kingdom it is only in the most removed sense possible. We might be a kingdom on paper, but in no way shape or form are we actually a kingdom in practice. Quote
Smallc Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 I'm still pretty sure you don't undertand what a kingdom is. We have a monarch, we are completely independent, we're a kingdom. That's it. We're not any kind of republic de facto or otherwise. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 Small correction - the Queen is the head of state. You're absolutely right; the Queen is the head of state. However, she is also the government: The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen. Constitution Act 1867, S.III.9 Of course, in practice she mostly governs through her governor general and almost always on the advice of ministers drawn predominantly from the elected House of Commons, etc., etc. But, the point remains: as per the constitution itself, Canada is headed by a monarch. That, by definition, makes the country a kingdom. Cybercoma is merely distorting definitions to fit his own opinion. Quote
Tilter Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 The police state. The enless laws. Getting 1 year waits on surgeries with 5 postpone dates. Dying in an emergency waiting room. Allowing terrorists and other riff raff from around the world to come here and collect welfare and social programs. The fact that it's almost impossible to find a job. The 2 classes of citizen - the underclass private and the 'noble' public sector citizens. All the ethnic pijamas when taking a drive in the neighbourhood. Religious, ethnic and language strife. Teenage kids in highschool being made to wear reflective vests and pick garbage on the side.. a sick sight of communism. A portion of all our citizens who want to separate from our own country. The foreign and alien head dress, beards, and other foreign tongues being spoke. The fact half of Canada speaks English as a native tongue. The inconsistent, cold, rainy, windy whether. Having a bunch of un-used land, but living in shoe boxes and gov't refusing to sell citizens crown land plots. Having the highest cel phone rates in the world from gov't corruption. Politicians shoving tax dollars in brown paper bags and passing it around. Police hiding in bushes with the latest technology speeding lasers entrapping citizens simply trying to get to work doing 10km over the limit. Police up in helicopters going over houses, using military style heat infrared sensors on the roofs of citizens to see if they are freaking growing plants in the privacy of their own home. Police up in helicopters on provincial highways, simply 'picking off' innocent citizens in their cars just trying to travel down the highway in the 'fast lane'. Police in Hull Que randomly waiving over vehicles in traffic jams over to the side of the road and asking citizens for their license and insurance when they have done nothing wrong. Police just 'fishing' for paper violations and making criminals out of innocent citizens. Highest local airfare prices in the modern world due to background corruption. A public broadcaster where tax dollars go into left leaning political propoganda and shows titled 'little mosque on the prarie'. The fact that you can look under every rock and find a park ranger, police office, food inspection office, rcmp officer, provincial police officer, fishing/boating officer, fire inspection officer, or some other civil officer who threatens to enforce, ticket, and arrest you.. So yeah what a great place to live. Awsome place to live. HAPPY CANADA DAY EVERYONE! AND REMEMBER - BE SAFE! If Canada is such a horrible place why are you still here? While I agree that Canada is "overlawed" would you rather it be more like the States? Your criticism of the health system is unwarranted to the extreme. I just got out of the hospital after my 2nd total knee replacement. Total time from my first diagnosis- 16 months (3 months wait for the first one- 13 months till the next. Total billing to me 0.00 In the last 3 months I have also had consultations with 2 heart specialists, massive tests to diagnose coranary problems and throughout it all numerous visits to the Family doctor & numerous lab tests. Billing to me 0.00. In the States even with a health plan I would have been into the bank account for thousands of dollars and, while the medical service may have been faster (maybe) it would have been no better. To millions of US citizens the medical costs for my situation would have meant the loss of bank account, home and any hope of future financial recovery. Teenage kids in highschool being made to wear reflective vests and pick garbage on the side.. a sick sight of communismPlease tell me where this is --- I want to move where they make teen pick up their own damn messes.If you were raised in Canada you were educated in the same system as I and yet you can't spell, punctuate, or form understandable sentences--- did you spend your education years in a Pot haze? Don't love it---- leave it. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I'm still pretty sure you don't undertand what a kingdom is.I know what a kingdom is. I don't think you understand the point I'm making. Edited July 5, 2011 by cybercoma Quote
g_bambino Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 I know what a kingdom is. What you've been saying indicates otherwise. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 From dictionary.com 1. Kingdom, monarchy, realm refer to the state or domain ruled by a king or queen. A kingdom is a governmental unit ruled by a king or queen: the kingdom of Norway. A monarchy is primarily a form of government in which a single person is sovereign; it is also the type of power exercised by the monarch: This kingdom is not an absolute monarchy. A realm is the domain, including the subjects, over which the king has jurisdiction; figuratively, a sphere of power or influence: the laws of the realm.Canada is not in any way ruled by our monarch nor is the monarch sovereign. The de facto ruler of the Canadian state is the constituents that vote in elections. Even the Governor General is an extension of our electoral system, which results in a Prime Minister that appoints the GG. The monarchy's authority in Canada is symbolic only and if it ever tried to exercise its power over the state or the government, it would cease to exist. We are symbolically a monarchy, but in practice we are a republic. Nothing that has been said here has convinced me otherwise. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland are not ruled by a King or Queen either. So, I'd guess you'd reject the term United Kingdom also? Oh let the Queen rule - it gives the old girl a purpose. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 Hence the term "The Crown". There are are older legalist who wear the title Queens' Council....the old guard is still loyal and that is why we fair well -LONG LIVE THE QUEEN! Quote
Smallc Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 Canada is not in any way ruled by our monarch nor is the monarch sovereign. Except that you're wrong. You either don't understand or are trying to deny the source of the government's power. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Canada is not in any way ruled by our monarch... The constitution says otherwise. {I]f it ever tried to exercise its power over the state or the government, it would cease to exist. The Crown cannot exercise its power over the state or the government since it is both the state and the government. If you mean to hypothesise about the Queen or the governor general exercising executive power without or against ministerial advice, the aftermath would depend entirely upon the circumstances in which the reserve powers were employed. There's a reason why it is the Queen who holds all executive power in this country. [+] Edited July 5, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
jbg Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 The monarchy's authority in Canada is symbolic only and if it ever tried to exercise its power over the state or the government, it would cease to exist. We are symbolically a monarchy, but in practice we are a republic. Nothing that has been said here has convinced me otherwise. Try explaining that to any Australian who was conscious on November 10, 1975. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Either you guys have no idea what I'm arguing or you're playing semantic games for your own amusement. In any case, I feel I've explained myself several times. You don't agree with me. Fine. However, like I said, I haven't really been convinced that what I'm saying is wrong. All this stuff about the Queen being the government and the executive power in the country is fine, except that the de facto government is the cabinet and it is given its mandate from the public through elections (I think Harper even has a pin that says, "ask me about my mandate"). Regardless of what the actuality is of our system, in practice we are a republic and our monarchy is nothing more than a symbolic gesture to royalty that couldn't possibly care less about our existence and has no practical ruling power over our nation or government. We're nothing more than a paper kingdom, imo. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Either you guys have no idea what I'm arguing I don't know what you're arguing, because I'm not sure you know what you're arguing. Is the United Kingdom not a kingdom? Is the Kingdom of Norway not a kingdom? You seem to think that a kingdom has to involve an absolute monarchy, which isn't true at all. We have a monarch. Yes, we govern ourselves through a democratic system, but that system draws its power from the Crown. Without the Crown, there is no Canada as it's currently constituted. We're a kingdom, it's that simple. I'm not the one arguing semantics. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Without the Crown, there is no Canada And I disagree. The crown is nothing more than a formality. Without the Crown, nothing would change other than the wording on a few pieces of paper. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) And I disagree. The crown is nothing more than a formality. Without the Crown, nothing would change other than the wording on a few pieces of paper. And without a few pieces of paper, without years (if not decades) of work, there would be no Canada. I'm glad that we agree. Edited July 6, 2011 by Smallc Quote
eyeball Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Without the Crown, there is no Canada as it's currently constituted. We're a kingdom, it's that simple. I'm not the one arguing semantics. So if, lets say an asteroid, completely obliterated Buckingham Palace the Queen and even the whole UK would Canada still be a Kingdom? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Smallc Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 So if, lets say an asteroid, completely obliterated Buckingham Palace the Queen and even the whole UK would Canada still be a Kingdom? Yes. Quote
RNG Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Yes. An interesting sidebar to this (IMO) is that apparently it is illegal for contracts to be in perpetuity. They must specify an expiry date (?). So several contracts I was involved in while in the natural gas marketing area had the last paragraph being far more eloquent words to the effect that "This contract shall be in force till the last blood relative of Queen Victoria croaks." Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
g_bambino Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 [O]ur monarchy is nothing more than a symbolic gesture to royalty that couldn't possibly care less about our existence... Then explain what the reserve powers are and why they're there. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Is the United Kingdom not a kingdom? Is the Kingdom of Norway not a kingdom? I was going to ask the same thing. Interesting he chose to gloss right over the questions. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Yes. Correct. Less drastically, the United Kingdom could become the United Republic and Canada would remain a kingdom with Queen Elizabeth II as sovereign. Quote
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