Black Dog Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 According to a report from the Toronto Board of Trade, gridlock is one of the biggest barriers to the continued economic prosperity of the GTA. Currently gridlock costs about $6 billion a year and that number is expected to rise. The Board recommends exploring a range of options for financing infrastructure, including parking levies and road tolls. I'd suggest a combination: dedicated gas taxes, congestion charges, toll roads, and/or road pricing. It's time to stop the free ride motorists have been getting on the backs of teh gerneal population for the last four decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 According to a report from the Toronto Board of Trade, gridlock is one of the biggest barriers to the continued economic prosperity of the GTA. Currently gridlock costs about $6 billion a year and that number is expected to rise. The Board recommends exploring a range of options for financing infrastructure, including parking levies and road tolls. I'd suggest a combination: dedicated gas taxes, congestion charges, toll roads, and/or road pricing. It's time to stop the free ride motorists have been getting on the backs of teh gerneal population for the last four decades. The idea of road tolls on already existing highways in Toronto is completely absurd. If everyone stopped driving today, the current system of public transit couldn't even come close to accommodating the additional demand. BTW the GO Train is very expensive and very inefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 The idea of road tolls on already existing highways in Toronto is completely absurd. If everyone stopped driving today, the current system of public transit couldn't even come close to accommodating the additional demand. BTW the GO Train is very expensive and very inefficient. How on earth did you get to "if everyone stopped driving today" from a report on gridloack in the GTA? Does the report suggest that? Hyperbole much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 How on earth did you get to "if everyone stopped driving today" from a report on gridloack in the GTA? Does the report suggest that? Hyperbole much? What do you think a congestion charge is trying to accomplish? If you live in the 905 and have a career in the 416 you have one of two options, Take the Gardiner or the DVP OR take the GO Train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 What do you think a congestion charge is trying to accomplish? Are you then suggesting that the goal is to eliminate 100% of the traffic. By far GO is the smarter choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Are you then suggesting that the goal is to eliminate 100% of the traffic. By far GO is the smarter choice. Perhaps if your office is close to Unions Station and you work a 9-5 job. A monthly pass for GO can go for over $200 in parts of the 905 and you still need to get to the station in your own town. So either you have to pay for 3 separate transit services or pay for a car as well as the GO Train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 The idea of road tolls on already existing highways in Toronto is completely absurd. What's your solution, then? If everyone stopped driving today, the current system of public transit couldn't even come close to accommodating the additional demand. BTW the GO Train is very expensive and very inefficient. Who said anything about stopping everyone from driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Perhaps if your office is close to Unions Station and you work a 9-5 job. A monthly pass for GO can go for over $200 in parts of the 905 and you still need to get to the station in your own town. So either you have to pay for 3 separate transit services or pay for a car as well as the GO Train. Or you could, you know, live where you work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Perhaps if your office is close to Unions Station and you work a 9-5 job. A monthly pass for GO can go for over $200 in parts of the 905 and you still need to get to the station in your own town. So either you have to pay for 3 separate transit services or pay for a car as well as the GO Train. And how much do you think a monthly parking pass is? ..then add fuel ..then add wear and tear ..then add the cost of commuting to your insurance bill ..then add the time spent idle on the 401, QEW or the DVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 According to a report from the Toronto Board of Trade, gridlock is one of the biggest barriers to the continued economic prosperity of the GTA. Currently gridlock costs about $6 billion a year and that number is expected to rise. The Board recommends exploring a range of options for financing infrastructure, including parking levies and road tolls. I'd suggest a combination: dedicated gas taxes, congestion charges, toll roads, and/or road pricing. It's time to stop the free ride motorists have been getting on the backs of teh gerneal population for the last four decades. I do like this part of the report though: The ChallengeIn an age of fiscal austerity, the Province will face continued difficulties in meeting all of its program and service expectations. Competing priorities – such as health care, education and social programs – have the potential to crowd out investments in infrastructure without long-term funds earmarked for infrastructure. Here is the setup: social programs versus investments From a government spending perspective, health-care is the top priority and will continue to be so. The Board and our members value the quality of, and competitive advantage created by, our health-care system. It is imperative that high-quality, publicly-funded health-care remains available to all Ontarians. There just has to be a "but" in here if it is social programs versus investments. But this level of priority comes at a price. Health-care is the largest single item in the Provincial budget, accounting for a growing percentage of this budget. The graph in the next column shows the Province’s expected budget deficits to 2018 (right axis) and the percentage health-care will account for of the Provincial budget to 2030 (left axis). Health-care will go from 46% of the Provincial budget in 2009 to 80% in 2030. Even as the Province emerges from its budget deficit, health-care will consume any fiscal room created – and begin to crowd out the funding for other items, such as education, social programs and infrastructure investment. Health care versus everything else now. Oh-oh... Another significant item in the Provincial budget is labour costs. These account for 70-80% of spending in some departments and programs. Ontario’s public servants provide excellent service to Ontarians. That being said, current benefits are proving to be more generous than found in the private sector. This is one of the reasons that the average retirement age in the public sector between 2000 and 2005 was 59, while it was 62 in the private sector (down from 64 and 65, respectively, between 1976 and 1979)20. Now labour is on the table. If we could only realize that the thing preventing us from having an excellent lifestyle is our damned lifestyle! In fact, the chief threat to our future lifestyle is our present lifestyle. And we know that the major roadblock (literally) to prosperity and success is our present prosperity and success. Further, as other governments around the world are discovering, the long-term costs of these generous benefits as the population ages are not sustainable. I mean, use Greece as the prime example. Look what is happening to them. It is, in the ominous words of Agent Smith, "inevitable." We're doomed! Doomed I tells ya! DOOOOOOOOMMMMED! .... Or maybe not. Perhaps we ought to shift the focus of our investments away from Toronto and into other regions of Ontario, ones that are not so far gone that they can be fixed up and pave the way to the prosperous future that is being threatened by the decline of infrastructure in Ontario the GTA. Then encourage those businesses to move to the new megacity of Barrie or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Or you could, you know, live where you work. Such an irrelevant argument. I bet you don't own your own home. You buy a house cuz it's in between where you and your wife work. One of you get laid off and can only find a job another 15-20 minutes away. You have to commute or should you just sell your house everytime you change working places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Such an irrelevant argument. I bet you don't own your own home. No I don't. Why would I? Given Toronto's housing prices, if I wanted to buy, I'd have to look to the 'burbs and I have no desire to do so. My work, friends and life are downtown. You buy a house cuz it's in between where you and your wife work. One of you get laid off and can only find a job another 15-20 minutes away. You have to commute or should you just sell your house everytime you change working places. It's about tradeoffs. You want to own a house in the burbs? The price for that is a long and/or expensive commute. You don't have a god given right to a free ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 What do you think a congestion charge is trying to accomplish? As I understand things, a congestion charge would be used to off-set the costs of maintaining and upgrading the transportation infrastructure. But I could be wrong. It could be used to get "everyone" to stop driving I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 As I understand things, a congestion charge would be used to off-set the costs of maintaining and upgrading the transportation infrastructure. But I could be wrong. It could be used to get "everyone" to stop driving I suppose. Isn't the Gas Tax supposed to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 It's about tradeoffs. You want to own a house in the burbs? The price for that is a long and/or expensive commute. You don't have a god given right to a free ride. From the Shwa to midtown in an hour via Lakeshore Express Go train & the Rocket. Very efficient and rather pleasant commute. I am sure it is not typical, but not too shabby either for the week that I had to commute. The return trip was 90 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 No I don't. Why would I? Given Toronto's housing prices, if I wanted to buy, I'd have to look to the 'burbs and I have no desire to do so. My work, friends and life are downtown. It's about tradeoffs. You want to own a house in the burbs? The price for that is a long and/or expensive commute. You don't have a god given right to a free ride. Man South of Bloor progressives are so out of touch with the rest of the country. Let alone the rest of the city. I don't even work in Toronto. I live and work in two different towns outside Toronto and my commute is about 30 minutes. Sometimes I actually get sent to work in the town I live in and only have to drive 3 clicks. But let's say I get laid off and can only find good work in say, Brampton. During rush hour that might take me an hour to get there. Should I sell my modest townhome and move to Brampton. Oh wait I can't cuz my wife works in completely the other direction on the 401. It's not as simple as people who choose to work shitteh Toronto think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Isn't the Gas Tax supposed to do that? I thought the Gas Tax was to pay for health care and social programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) I thought the Gas Tax was to pay for health care and social programs. Then what does income taxes, the heath tax and the HST pay for? Edited June 29, 2011 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Man South of Bloor progressives are so out of touch with the rest of the country. Let alone the rest of the city. I don't even work in Toronto. I live and work in two different towns outside Toronto and my commute is about 30 minutes. Sometimes I actually get sent to work in the town I live in and only have to drive 3 clicks. But let's say I get laid off and can only find good work in say, Brampton. During rush hour that might take me an hour to get there. Should I sell my modest townhome and move to Brampton. Oh wait I can't cuz my wife works in completely the other direction on the 401. It's not as simple as people who choose to work shitteh Toronto think it is. It's completely simple. It's about choices. You value owning property in whatever podunk burg you live in and are happy to pay the price in time and money for the privilege. Good for you. Have a virtual cookie. Unfortunately, here in the city, there's real challenges that need to be addressed. If this issue doesn't apply to you, why comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Oh wait I can't cuz my wife works in completely the other direction on the 401. I think that 'live where you work' implies that you and your wife would have to work within a day's walk from each other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 From the Shwa to midtown in an hour via Lakeshore Express Go train & the Rocket. Very efficient and rather pleasant commute. I am sure it is not typical, but not too shabby either for the week that I had to commute. The return trip was 90 minutes. Do you also have a car to drive you to the station and do all the other things I'm sure you'd like to do living there? Ironic is someone in the Shwa doesn't have a car actually considering the #1 industry there. ;-> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Man South of Bloor progressives are so out of touch with the rest of the country. Let alone the rest of the city. I don't even work in Toronto. I live and work in two different towns outside Toronto and my commute is about 30 minutes. Sometimes I actually get sent to work in the town I live in and only have to drive 3 clicks. But let's say I get laid off and can only find good work in say, Brampton. During rush hour that might take me an hour to get there. Should I sell my modest townhome and move to Brampton. Oh wait I can't cuz my wife works in completely the other direction on the 401. It's not as simple as people who choose to work shitteh Toronto think it is. So in other words, none of this would affect you seeing that you neither live nor work in Toronto. Yet you are fine with the burden to rest on the backs of Torontonians. It ain't much to ask, those who work here and live elsewhere pay for the convience of using our roads. I am all for a toll at highway 7 on the DVP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I am all for a toll at highway 7 on the DVP.... Hush you...I work at #7 and 404 (which is what you meant I am sure) And I live in the city and pays me dues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 So in other words, none of this would affect you seeing that you neither live nor work in Toronto. Yet you are fine with the burden to rest on the backs of Torontonians. It ain't much to ask, those who work here and live elsewhere pay for the convience of using our roads. I am all for a toll at highway 7 on the DVP.... Yeah it's irrelevant to me, I try to go into Toronto as few times as possible. But I still can have an opinion. People are going to have to drive downtown regardless of a tax. Not everyone can simply use the GO-Train. Also what about the people that may live in Toronto and work in say Mississauga? Mississauga isn't just some bedroom burb there are many head offices there too. I actually think the traffic in places like Mississauga and Oakville are actually worse than they can be in Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I think that 'live where you work' implies that you and your wife would have to work within a day's walk from each other... Yeah because that's so practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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