Some Good News About Aging Populations

[Wild Bill]

Our species started with a highly developed capacity for empathy, which was essential for cooperative living in those hunter/gatherer societies that dominated most of human history. As civilization developed, there was still the basic understanding that the needs of society as a whole can overrule personal wants and desires. The problem is today that modern society has become so complex that people feel disconnected from society. In the Information Age of computers and internet, people are more isolated and have less involvement with real people living in their neighbourhoods, so it's easier to call yourself an 'ethical egoist' or some equivalent claptrap than it was during her time, when this sort of thinking was privy to intellectual elites.

My basic thinking on Ayn Rand is that, regardless of how much she has made her philosophy seem complex, it boils down to little more than presenting the opposite approach of Marxism. Marx taught that the good of the collective was the highest value, so an anti-Marxist like Rand, creates an opposite philosophy where individual wants and desires are supreme. Most people realize that the best way to live would be somewhere between two extreme approaches to life...whose proponents served as poor examples of healthy living in their own lives.

Who defines the good of the collective? Somehow it always turns out that "some pigs are more equal than others."

Anyhow, I'm betting that if you despise Rand so much you would REALLY loath Robert Heinlein!

[Oleg Bach]

All I know is that there is a real cheezey rock band playing in the club across the street -------------sounds like they are aging..playing those dated second rate covers....you would believe that smart people do not live in the past - so who said people were smart?

[WIP]

Who defines the good of the collective? Somehow it always turns out that "some pigs are more equal than others."

Which is exactly what we have in a capitalist system where a few at the top own most of the wealth! Whining about government is pointless in this system because governments are bought and sold by the privileged few who control the money. Real democracy depends on the majority feeling that they have a say, and a stake in the system.

Over on the NDP thread, the underlying issue behind attempts to remove the word "socialism" have nothing to do with ideology, but the mere fact that the leaders of the NDP are trying to do what Democrats do in the U.S. -- curry favour with corporate class while trying to appear working class to their base of supporters. Rightwing parties do not have to perform this balancing act, and that's why they will dominate this system if nothing is done to stop the increasing stratification of wealth.

Anyhow, I'm betting that if you despise Rand so much you would REALLY loath Robert Heinlein!

Hate him! For classic science fiction I'll take Arthur C. Clarke and Ray Bradbury any day.

[GostHacked]

All I know is that there is a real cheezey rock band playing in the club across the street -------------sounds like they are aging..playing those dated second rate covers....you would believe that smart people do not live in the past - so who said people were smart?

Its the same reason why the same crap is played on the radio over and over again. Comfort in familiararity.

[Oleg Bach]

All good people as they age attempt to show benevolence towards their fellows - and that good faith usually increases with age. Those that were selfish pricks in their youth are selfish pricks in old age...you are what you stated off as in the end.

[Wild Bill]

Hate him! For classic science fiction I'll take Arthur C. Clarke and Ray Bradbury any day.

I thought so! Me, I read Robert Heinlein at a very young age and was captivated as much by his philosophy of life as expressed through his stories as the stories themselves.

Much of my attitudes were formed from reading "Starship Troopers". I was appalled at what they did to his story with that terrible movie...

[bloodyminded]

I thought so! Me, I read Robert Heinlein at a very young age and was captivated as much by his philosophy of life as expressed through his stories as the stories themselves.

Much of my attitudes were formed from reading "Starship Troopers". I was appalled at what they did to his story with that terrible movie...

I liked the movie, as a pure junk food kind of escapade.

But I might feel otherwise if I had read the book, so....

[wyly]

The only thing good about aging is that if you are in a good frame of mind...and body - You can still have sex...and that's the only thing good about it.

there's nothing good about aging, even the sex sucks...

[eyeball]

there's nothing good about aging, even the sex sucks...

You've got to get with the times Oleg, the sex blows now...it hasn't sucked for years.

[bloodyminded]

there's nothing good about aging, even the sex sucks...

I guess that's why, as we get older, we invent wild and preposterous pretences about being "wiser." Gotta hold on to something!

[Oleg Bach]

You've got to get with the times Oleg, the sex blows now...it hasn't sucked for years.

If you have an old partner that you are comfortable with - the sex is still there - the problem with getting older is that you have an expirey date tatooed on your forehead and younger more vital woman might find you attractive but they know there is no future so they don't bother ---- unless you have a lot of money I suppose...Most woman no matter how trival they are about sex - actually are looking for a life partner - seeing that my life has just about run out - I am not a suitable candidate....But before this life is over _ i will have one more torid affair then I will be willing to go.....

BUT it is as if - God is looking down and says "OLEG - you have had more than your share and much to much fun - no more for you"

[Topaz]

I think people views on life start to change when they hit 50. One starts to think, life is starting the down hill before you are six feet under but before you get there, there's a lot to do and think about. 60, one really starts to think about inching close to the bottom of that hill. Everyone , naturally think differently, depending on what the circumstances are in ones life. One thing I have noticed though is that most people, realize they really don't need a lot of money to be happy and at what age why be a millionaire when you can't take it with you and do your children REALLY deserve their inheritance? or really needed it? one always looks back on ones life and how one could have change it but we are stuck with it no matter what we think we should or shouldn't done. I think one of the worse shocks are aging is when we lose our own parents. These are the people that you thought would live forever and when the times comes they don't we find it hard to adjust to the fact they are gone and will our own kids feel the same way? Some of us, lost our best friends besides being our parents, but we do find that time really does heal but we still miss them. There so many ups and downs of aging and all of us live it differently. It is just me, or do other boomers feel that the days are moving too fast and too slow for the young?

[Oleg Bach]

All you can do is imagine that being 70 will be interesting - hopefully as we age we will become colourful characters..as for death - all I can say - Is that it will also be interesting - but no matter what - we are all not going to leave willfully...Going to be 61 soon - never thought that I would get here....I learned one thing this year - That I am mortal - took a long time to figure that out...damn - even Jesus was mortal...well he did promise to make me immortal - at the very end - He had better be telling the truth lol..

[Guest American Woman]

You know what they say, Oleg .... getting old is better than the alternative. Too many people have their lives cut short. So embrace the fact that you've reached 60!! - and that you may have many good years ahead of you. My Mom was just telling me about her friend's friend that just had hip surgery - at 97! She's still living at her home - with her son, but to hear tell, she's the one looking after a slacker child. At 97! And just think how young that 97 year old would think you are.....

[kimmy]

And just think how young that 97 year old would think you are.....

(Oleg is going to ask you for her phone number.)

-k

[Wild Bill]

(Oleg is going to ask you for her phone number.)

-k

Which reminds me of an old Hamilton joke that might be appropriate to Oleg's position, Kimmy!

A few years ago, the head of the Hamilton Stelco steelworker's Union was a man named Cec Taylor. The local was number 1005. One evening he happened to be in Toronto for some union management negotiations and afterwards found himself walking down Yonge St to his hotel.

About halfway along his journey he passed a "House of Ill Repute". What's more, it had a sign by the door that said "Prostitutes Union - Local 1005".

Of course, Cec Taylor thought this a marvelous coincidence and promptly went inside! He met the Madam and explained about the commonality of the number for the two union locals and the Madam agreed that it was an amazing coincidence.

So Cec looks around at the ladies and promptly points to one lovely professional, exclaiming "She's for me!"

"Oh, not so fast, Mr. Taylor!" said the Madam. "We have a much more appropriate worker for you!"

After a minute or two this very old dame of at least 80 long and hard years comes doddering into the room. "This lady will be glad to look after you!"

"No Way!" yells Mr. Taylor. "I don't want her! I want that other one!"

"But Mr. Taylor!" said the Madam. "You have to take this one. She has the most seniority!"

I wonder what a good union man like our poster Jack here on MLW would have done!

[kimmy]

According to psychologist - Elizabeth Midlarsky, older people who have raised their families and have personal finances in order, start shifting focus to larger, wider concerns....I hope she's right! Every other factor in modern life: growing gaps in wealth and income, fights for available natural resources, consumerism and advertising induced hedonism, is pushing in the other direction....that would also explain all the crap now about Ayn Rand....who provides a thin veneer of moral justification for selfishness.

As long as people have sufficient health and finances to meet their daily needs, they do seem to behave more altruistically as they grow older. Our research indicates that older adults (65 years plus) express the need to help others both for social reasons (they prefer to be engaged with others) and for altruistic reasons (they really want to be of help to others), and are willing to expend their own resources (time, money, effort) to do so.

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2011/06/08/do-we-become-more-altruistic-as-we-get-older-and-have-less-of-our-own-life-to-protect/

I think that if the babyboomers really wanted to do something altruistic to help others, they would pull their lips over their heads and swallow.

-k

[Oleg Bach]

You know what they say, Oleg .... getting old is better than the alternative. Too many people have their lives cut short. So embrace the fact that you've reached 60!! - and that you may have many good years ahead of you. My Mom was just telling me about her friend's friend that just had hip surgery - at 97! She's still living at her home - with her son, but to hear tell, she's the one looking after a slacker child. At 97! And just think how young that 97 year old would think you are.....

People in my family tend to die young. I never expected to even reach 61 which I will be in August. Yes I am begining to embrace my age - and find it and myself more interesting - I am very grateful in the fact that it looks like I will live out a full life span...My wife tends to her dying mother - I was dutiful to my parents also...and my kids will watch out for me in time...Someone asked my wife - "why do you ruin your life and dedicate your time to the care of your mother?" She replied - "what example would I be setting for my own children if I did not care for my mum?"

We all have duties and expecting the state and medical authorities to deal with our old and frail is not viable or dignified.. the old way was better...that we care for those that cared for us.

AS for age Kimmy - It's just weird to me who was for ever young and did not show any signs of aging untill recently _ it was sudden _ I looked at my hands and they now have old peoples skin....They work fine - I guess it's vanity for me...other than the few missing teeth - and the thinning skin - I am strong...and still young - I tell people that when older people lose the elasticity in their skin - and it sags - it allows the old to move faster _ age is not rot - it is simply the returning to our original state...dust.

I know this very old guy we call the "mayor" he is about 80 - his body is boney and he looks as if he should not be able to walk - Yet he works - moves very quickly and adores flirting with woman...I joke with him "Ron - I would like to give you a pat on the back but am afraid you will turn to dust" _ He gets a laugh out of the comment. Ron is an inspiration because he stays moving out of sheer determination...and does not let the physics get in the way...he moves like lightning - and smiles as he goes...I love the old guy.

[Oleg Bach]

(Oleg is going to ask you for her phone number.)

-k

Kimmy - when you are 60 - you crave hot young woman of 40...I know of a 56 year old woman who adores me - but she is to old....but still sexy...She insists that I want to stay young by bedding down with a 40 year old...well sure if it happens - but not likely ---yesterday I sat with my old mate - who is 50 - and suggested maybe we would be healthier and happier if we moved back in together....27 years in the same house...the last three years I have lived alone - I don't like the alone thing - I might just give in and grown old with the wife _ never liked the idea of two of us in rockers taking about the kids...sitting on the porch while I drank gin and she smoked that vile pot...Odd how in her older age she has taken up dope smoking...makes her feel better but putting up with a stoned mate when you are about to enter your 62nd year is distressing - I don't want to hear about a tree house with legs that walks about...guess I am to serious.

[Yukon Jack]

The only thing good about aging is that if you are in a good frame of mind...and body - You can still have sex...and that's the only thing good about it.

Maybe not the ONLY good thing, but definitely THE best thing about getting old is to see your grand children growing, getting smarter and getting more beautiful each and every day.

I feel sorry for old folks to whom fate/life denied this joy and pleasure.

My wife and I gave up a mortgage free home and moved 2,000 kms when our daughter wrote to us that our first grand child was on the way. No regret, just the joy, especially in view of the fact that we managed to buy a house just across the street from our daughter's place.

The sad part is, though, that I know that my grand kids will never have what I had. The selfishness of the current generation, especially the thoroughly spoiled baby-boomers (I am 10 years too old to qualify for that dubious title) makes it clear and sad that they could not have cared less about the world they left behind. Unless, of course, if their benevolence benefited a spotted owl or a striped titmouse.

I am glad I will not be here to see the struggle that my grand kids will have to face, compared to which the world of 'Soylent Green' will appear like a fairy tale.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Yukon Jack

[Jack Weber]

Which reminds me of an old Hamilton joke that might be appropriate to Oleg's position, Kimmy!

A few years ago, the head of the Hamilton Stelco steelworker's Union was a man named Cec Taylor. The local was number 1005. One evening he happened to be in Toronto for some union management negotiations and afterwards found himself walking down Yonge St to his hotel.

About halfway along his journey he passed a "House of Ill Repute". What's more, it had a sign by the door that said "Prostitutes Union - Local 1005".

Of course, Cec Taylor thought this a marvelous coincidence and promptly went inside! He met the Madam and explained about the commonality of the number for the two union locals and the Madam agreed that it was an amazing coincidence.

So Cec looks around at the ladies and promptly points to one lovely professional, exclaiming "She's for me!"

"Oh, not so fast, Mr. Taylor!" said the Madam. "We have a much more appropriate worker for you!"

After a minute or two this very old dame of at least 80 long and hard years comes doddering into the room. "This lady will be glad to look after you!"

"No Way!" yells Mr. Taylor. "I don't want her! I want that other one!"

"But Mr. Taylor!" said the Madam. "You have to take this one. She has the most seniority!"

I wonder what a good union man like our poster Jack here on MLW would have done!

This union man,and USWA member,is a married man and does not go to cathouses...

And I remember Cec Taylor and the strike in '81...

Edited July 31, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Oleg Bach]

Maybe not the ONLY good thing, but definitely THE best thing about getting old is to see your grand children growing, getting smarter and getting more beautiful each and every day.

I feel sorry for old folks to whom fate/life denied this joy and pleasure.

My wife and I gave up a mortgage free home and moved 2,000 kms when our daughter wrote to us that our first grand child was on the way. No regret, just the joy, especially in view of the fact that we managed to buy a house just across the street from our daughter's place.

The sad part is, though, that I know that my grand kids will never have what I had. The selfishness of the current generation, especially the thoroughly spoiled baby-boomers (I am 10 years too old to qualify for that dubious title) makes it clear and sad that they could not have cared less about the world they left behind. Unless, of course, if their benevolence benefited a spotted owl or a striped titmouse.

I am glad I will not be here to see the struggle that my grand kids will have to face, compared to which the world of 'Soylent Green' will appear like a fairy tale.

To bad we could not all stay together and live forever. I am close to my adult children...and watching them is very interesting - but I admit as my mother used to say of the kids when they were infants - or as in Christian Orthodoxy (kids are angels till the age of 7) "when your kids are this young - enjoy it - these will be the best and most interesting days of your life...she was correct to a degree...when I think back knowing I can never go back I want to cry because raising a family was a blessing and I sure would love to do it again - but you only get one turn...

I kept my second daughter company as she attended a hospital for some testing..In the hall I had a chat with an 83 year old volunteer...he was sharp and still living with his wife "an older woman" _ when I complain about my age to my daughter she points to the old guy and says "Dad you are not old - that's old" as she motions to the skeletal old guy with the bright blue eyes.

[Yukon Jack]

To bad we could not all stay together and live forever. I am close to my adult children...and watching them is very interesting - but I admit as my mother used to say of the kids when they were infants - or as in Christian Orthodoxy (kids are angels till the age of 7) "when your kids are this young - enjoy it - these will be the best and most interesting days of your life...she was correct to a degree...when I think back knowing I can never go back I want to cry because raising a family was a blessing and I sure would love to do it again - but you only get one turn...

I kept my second daughter company as she attended a hospital for some testing..In the hall I had a chat with an 83 year old volunteer...he was sharp and still living with his wife "an older woman" _ when I complain about my age to my daughter she points to the old guy and says "Dad you are not old - that's old" as she motions to the skeletal old guy with the bright blue eyes.

I, too am close to my children. I know they are OK, because of what I leave for them.

But my post, above, was an expression of concern for my grandkids.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Yukon Jack

[Oleg Bach]

I, too am close to my children. I know they are OK, because of what I leave for them.

But my post, above, was an expression of concern for my grandkids.

My old now dead father in law was a bitter man - He would change the oil in his old truck and dig a hole fifty feet from a well and dump the stuff cover it - I asked him if he cared about future generations..all he said was no one cared about him so why should he care about others. This is sort of typical thinking for some BP oil is a grand corporate example of this type of thinking - I know old guys who perish hope in their heart of hearts that the whole world dies when they do...but the world will go on..and children will be born - of course we must send our love and care into the future - I worry about my kids - because I know after I am gone and not here to advise and protect - that in twenty years they might have to endure a hell on earth - the way things are going. The future is a cause for great concern.