TimG Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 is that one of Maher's original points was that many people are celebrating bin Laden's death from a perspective of vengeanceA shot to the head for a mass murderer is justice - not vengence. Maher is in no position to lecture Christians on how they should interpret their scripture. Quote
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 A shot to the head for a mass murderer is justice - not vengence. It can take both forms simultaneously, can it not? Maher is in no position to lecture Christians on how they should interpret their scripture. Why not? Christians lecture to one another--and to the rest of us--in profoundly divergent ways (including in a similar vein to Maher's take). Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
TimG Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Why not? Christians lecture to one another--and to the rest of us--in profoundly divergent ways (including in a similar vein to Maher's take).He could if he was advocating a moral position that Christians disagreed with. However, starts out by saying he has no problem with gunning down Bin Laden and then criticizes Christians for not disagreeing with him. It is a pathetic rant. Quote
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 No, they do not. Selective Christians take it upon themselves to ignore the words of Jesus and follow contradicting excerpts from the Old Testament. Why they still call themselves Christian, I'm not sure but it's probably a cultural identity thing. One doesn't cease being Christian because of committing a sin. You seriously don't know that? Like I've already said, that's what confession is for. If somebody celebrated Obama's death, that's between them and their priest. They'll ask for forgiveness. Once again, apparently that concept is new to Maher and Hardner. Quote
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 He could if he was advocating a moral position that Christians disagreed with. However, starts out by saying he has no problem with gunning down Bin Laden and then criticizes Christians for not disagreeing with him. It is a pathetic rant. Well, I personally find Maher occasionally insightful and hilarious, but just as often smug and condescending, so I'm not sure I can disagree with you on this point. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Why this underlines my point--already forgotten from the beginning of the thread--is that one of Maher's original points was that many people are celebrating bin Laden's death from a perspective of vengeance; which, if one is a Christian, is distinctly going against the message of their Messiah. Well, if one is able to mind read, and know exactly why somebody is celebrating something, then yes, they would be sinners. Anyways, the Church also recognizes the concept of a just war. So once again we're back to contradictions. It's nothing new. Other than to Maher and Hardner. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 One doesn't cease being Christian because of committing a sin. You seriously don't know that? Like I've already said, that's what confession is for. If somebody celebrated Obama's death, that's between them and their priest. They'll ask for forgiveness. Once again, apparently that concept is new to Maher and Hardner. I don't think repudiating Christianity is a sin, per se. It's a defacto rejection of Christianity. What else is a Christian, other than somebody who follows the words of Christ ? You tell me. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 I don't think repudiating Christianity is a sin, per se. It's a defacto rejection of Christianity. What else is a Christian, other than somebody who follows the words of Christ ? You tell me. Nope. I Christian is someone that accepts Jesus as the son of God, and their personal savior. However, a Christian is also not perfect, and committing sin is a part of Christianity. There hasn't ever been a Christian that hasn't sinned in some way or another. I'm afraid what you believe a Christian is suppose to be is a stereotype born of ignorance. Quote
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Nope. I Christian is someone that accepts Jesus as the son of God, and their personal savior. However, a Christian is also not perfect, and committing sin is a part of Christianity. There hasn't ever been a Christian that hasn't sinned in some way or another. I'm afraid what you believe a Christian is suppose to be is a stereotype born of ignorance. You and Michael can correct me if I'm wrong, but I had thought he was a Christian, and you were not? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 You and Michael can correct me if I'm wrong, but I had thought he was a Christian, and you were not? I'm agnostic. But I was raised Catholic. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 Nope. I Christian is someone that accepts Jesus as the son of God, and their personal savior. However, a Christian is also not perfect, and committing sin is a part of Christianity. There hasn't ever been a Christian that hasn't sinned in some way or another. I'm afraid what you believe a Christian is suppose to be is a stereotype born of ignorance. I'm afraid that your definition is lacking. Someone has to follow the philosophy and words of Jesus himself to be a Christian. Yes, they can sin, but they must follow him. To me, that is the definition of a Christian - one who follows Jesus. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 You and Michael can correct me if I'm wrong, but I had thought he was a Christian, and you were not? I do consider myself a Christian, though others may disagree. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 I do consider myself a Christian, though others may disagree. I asked only because I'm trying to get my head around how you implicitly "have no right to criticize Christians"; and also how an agnostic declares that a Christian is stereotyping Christians. Theoretically not impossible, I understand, but I believe the argument was made mistakenly, on the assumption that you aren't a Christian...and otherwise it wouldn't have been made it all. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 I asked only because I'm trying to get my head around how you implicitly "have no right to criticize Christians"; and also how an agnostic declares that a Christian is stereotyping Christians. Theoretically not impossible, I understand, but I believe the argument was made mistakenly, on the assumption that you aren't a Christian...and otherwise it wouldn't have been made it all. Even trickier if dealing with an Agnostic Christian... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 I'm afraid that your definition is lacking. Someone has to follow the philosophy and words of Jesus himself to be a Christian. Yes, they can sin, but they must follow him. To me, that is the definition of a Christian - one who follows Jesus. And how does the church's recognition of a just war fit into your definition? Quote
Jack Weber Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Mark this day down folks.... I'm in rare agreement with The Professor... Yes,we are taught to turn the other cheek,however,we are also taught to be vigilent (sp) in the face of obvious evil,fight the good fight,and if necessary,fight a just war. By the definition of the critcs here,we all should have turned the other cheek and been pacifists when NAZI Germany invaded Poland in September of 1939...Which is,to coin The Professor,complete nonesense! I suppose I should be eternally saddened that Adolph Hitler put some lead in his head? I should feel remorse for a bloodthirsty killer,like Osama Bin Laden,that he met his ultimate fate? Well,I don't! Just as I won't have any remorse for the ultimate architect of this earthly evil when he's thrown into The Pit... Now I have to go punish myself for agreeing with The Professor... Edited May 19, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shady Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 I asked only because I'm trying to get my head around how you implicitly "have no right to criticize Christians"; Who said anything about no right to criticize Christians? Anyways, I'm still trying to figure out which Christians were celebrating, and how anyone knows that they're Christians. Can you tell by the way they look? LOL. Quote
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Who said anything about no right to criticize Christians? TimG. Only Christians should criticize Christians, for...some reason. Enter Michael Hardner. Dilemma solved. Anyways, I'm still trying to figure out which Christians were celebrating, You didn't see the celebrations on the news? Oh, wait, that's leftist propaganda. and how anyone knows that they're Christians. Can you tell by the way they look? LOL. The sheer numbers of self-professed Christians lets us know that the majority were undoubtedly Christian. Edited May 19, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Mark this day down folks.... I'm in rare agreement with The Professor... Yes,we are taught to turn the other cheek,however,we are also taught to be vigilent (sp) in the face of obvious evil,fight the good fight,and if necessary,fight a just war. But He did not support vengeance...that's the primary topic here. (Maher may well have been theologically mistaken on several other points.) Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 TimG. Only Christians should criticize Christians, for...some reason. Enter Michael Hardner. Dilemma solved. You didn't see the celebrations on the news? Oh, wait, that's leftist propaganda. The sheer numbers of self-professed Christians lets us know that the majority were undoubtedly Christian. To be fair: 1.The "celebrations" seems more like an opportunity for yankee doodle flag waving... 2.I do remember alot of celebrating in the Muslim world when the Twin Towers came down... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 But He did not support vengeance...that's the primary topic here. (Maher may well have been theologically mistaken on several other points.) Correct..But He certainly supported JUSTICE...Remember,He is not only the Christ,but the Messiah AND He will judge this Earth... Was it vengeance that we went after Adolph Hitler??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 To be fair: 1.The "celebrations" seems more like an opportunity for yankee doodle flag waving... Yes, I don't mean to overstate it. 2.I do remember alot of celebrating in the Muslim world when the Twin Towers came down... Yes, but we condemn that, so tit-for-tat doesn't quite work. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Yes, I don't mean to overstate it. Yes, but we condemn that, so tit-for-tat doesn't quite work. I can't speak for everybody,but in the case of 2001,I kinda expected it from that aprt of the world...Sadly...I was'nt shocked at all that a certain cadre of the Islamic populous would applaud the death of over 3000 people in the den of "The Great Satan".. However,I do agree that the flag waving,while to be expected,seemed a little over the top.I mean,it's not the Olympics.And it did seem to be more of a "We're #1" type of thing than "Yippee!!!Osama got a bullett in the brain!" Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 I can't speak for everybody,but in the case of 2001,I kinda expected it from that aprt of the world...Sadly...I was'nt shocked at all that a certain cadre of the Islamic populous would applaud the death of over 3000 people in the den of "The Great Satan".. However,I do agree that the flag waving,while to be expected,seemed a little over the top.I mean,it's not the Olympics.And it did seem to be more of a "We're #1" type of thing than "Yippee!!!Osama got a bullett in the brain!" Interestingly, it appears that Osama's death has received more or less a collective shrug in Muslim countries, with even smaller numbers of radicals than expected howling outrage or swearing revenge. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Interestingly, it appears that Osama's death has received more or less a collective shrug in Muslim countries, with even smaller numbers of radicals than expected howling outrage or swearing revenge. That would be a very good thing.. I have heared that Al Quaeda,because of the counter terrorism efforts,has been reduced to a shadow of its former self... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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