Why Alberta hates the Liberals/Trudeau

[Jim Lahey]

1980: Pierre Trudeau wins a majority without winning a seat West of Manitoba.

This set the precedent for the NEP, which undisputedly (correct me if I'm wrong) benefited the East at the expense of Alberta. This has lead me, and many of my friends and family, to adopt an 'Albertacentric' view on federal politics. Our energy sector is a major part of our livelihood, and it seems that some political parties - especially those that garner major support in the East - are likely adopt a taxation policy that would result in significantly less oil and gas production if elected. While I agree that we shouldn't be giving the oil away for next to nothing like we are currently doing, any regulations and taxation have to be adopted strategically. I have a feeling that many of these companies wouldn't mind keeping their oil in the ground for a few years until there is another election if it meant that they would make more money doing so in the long run.

I expect some flaming, but I like whining. I feel like Layton thinks that our economy runs on unicorns and fairy dust and doesn't realize what a significant negative impact carbon taxes will have on our economy.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Jim Lahey

[PIK]

1980: Pierre Trudeau wins a majority without winning a seat West of Manitoba.

This set the precedent for the NEP, which undisputedly (correct me if I'm wrong) benefited the East at the expense of Alberta. This has lead me, and many of my friends and family, to adopt an 'Albertacentric' view on federal politics. Our energy sector is a major part of our livelihood, and it seems that some political parties - especially those that garner major support in the East - are likely adopt a taxation policy that would result in significantly less oil and gas production if elected. While I agree that we shouldn't be giving the oil away for next to nothing like we are currently doing, any regulations and taxation have to be adopted strategically. I have a feeling that many of these companies wouldn't mind keeping their oil in the ground for a few years until there is another election if it meant that they would make more money doing so in the long run.

I expect some flaming, but I like whining. I feel like Layton thinks that our economy runs on unicorns and fairy dust and doesn't realize what a significant negative impact carbon taxes will have on our economy.

Lets not forget we all paid for the oil fields not just albertans and lets remember the ''scum of the east''helped in a huge way to built alberta to what it is today.

[RNG]

First @ Jim. How are we giving the oil away? (I live in BC now because I have to - health issues, but am still an Albertan at heart.) We sell our oil at prices set on a world market.

Next @ PIK. How did you pay for the oilfields?

[kimmy]

First @ Jim. How are we giving the oil away? (I live in BC now because I have to - health issues, but am still an Albertan at heart.) We sell our oil at prices set on a world market.

Ridiculously low royalties.

Next @ PIK. How did you pay for the oilfields?

Diefenbaker's National Oil Program undoubtedly helped.

-k

[RNG]

Ridiculously low royalties.

Diefenbaker's National Oil Program undoubtedly helped.

-k

Did you know that some BC royalties are lower than those in effect in Alberta?

And I must confess I know nothing about Diefenbaker's National Oil Program, but I still don't think the feds poured a bunch of money into the oilpatch. Again, a tax break is often used to stimulate the economy in some section. Bombardier and Flyer buses come to mind.

About the only real "break" oil companies get, that I am aware of is accelarated depreciation allowances. But this is justified because unlike a factory that is usesful for tens of years or more, the average gas well in western Canada only last 3 to 4 years, then becomes a liability which the company has to spend typically $100,000 to "abandon" in an environmentally responsible manner. And oil wells also have a way shorter life than your average factory.

[Molly]

Diefenbaker's National Oil Program undoubtedly helped. -k

Here. A thumbnail:

http://pushedleft.blogspot.com/2009/12/i-agree-with-andrew-coyne-parliament.html

'Helped' is accurate. '.. we all paid for the oil fields not just albertans and lets remember the ''scum of the east''helped in a huge way to built alberta to what it is today.' is , IMO, too strong an assertion.

Diefenbaker managed to bring something of a western perspective to parliament hill for a bit. It was a short interlude in a long history.

[kimmy]

While the National Oil Policy helped the oil patch by creating a captive market for Alberta oil for a few years, let's not forget that freight rates and trade tariffs kept the rest of the country a captive market for central Canadian manufactured goods for most of the country's history.

-k

[scouterjim]

While the National Oil Policy helped the oil patch by creating a captive market for Alberta oil for a few years, let's not forget that freight rates and trade tariffs kept the rest of the country a captive market for central Canadian manufactured goods for most of the country's history.

-k

But Kimmy, you fail to realize that Ontario is God's gift to Canada, and Toronto is the centre of the universe. I was always a strong supporter of that old statement "Let those eastern bastards freeze in the dark!"

[RNG]

Here. A thumbnail:

http://pushedleft.blogspot.com/2009/12/i-agree-with-andrew-coyne-parliament.html

'Helped' is accurate. '.. we all paid for the oil fields not just albertans and lets remember the ''scum of the east''helped in a huge way to built alberta to what it is today.' is , IMO, too strong an assertion.

Diefenbaker managed to bring something of a western perspective to parliament hill for a bit. It was a short interlude in a long history.

Perhaps a source not called "Pushed to the Left" would go down easier, but interesting none the less. This is something I knew nothing about, and am totally philosophically against, BTW.

The industry was still in it's infancy at that time. The other point is that Trans-Canada did pay back the loan with interest. But forcing refineries in Ontario and west pay above world prices is just wrong.

[Remiel]

I think PIK may have been referring to the purchase of Rupert's Land by Canada. I am not sure if any money exchanged hands over the North-Western Territory.

[punked]

I just want to point out NS, PEI and to a less extent NB took the fish out of the Ocean to finance the building of Railroads, and grain elevators which made it possible to settle the West in the first place. For all the whining Westerns do about paying their "fair share" they still owe a heck of a lost to the east. Although I am not one to play West against East we can not forget the huge debate that is always forgotten by those who live outside what are now poor provinces that were once the engine that ran this great nation of ours.

[Shakeyhands]

<---- closest to a yawn I could find.

Oddly, there isn't a "Whaaaaaaa emoticon either.

[RNG]

I just want to point out NS, PEI and to a less extent NB took the fish out of the Ocean to finance the building of Railroads, and grain elevators which made it possible to settle the West in the first place. For all the whining Westerns do about paying their "fair share" they still owe a heck of a lost to the east. Although I am not one to play West against East we can not forget the huge debate that is always forgotten by those who live outside what are now poor provinces that were once the engine that ran this great nation of ours.

The reason you "gave" us the railroad is so that you could plunder our resources. Ever heard of the wheat board? Forcing western farmers to sell at the prices you set. Punitive import duties on farm implements for which we had to pay horrendous transportation costs for tractors et al which were inferior eastern Canada products. And on it goes.

In fact you owe us.

Edited May 15, 2011 by RNG

[Smallc]

And on it goes.

Yes, on it goes...except 'it' isn't nearly what you think. Too bad, so sad.

[g_bambino]

The reason you "gave" us the railroad is so that you could plunder our resources.

Actually, it was to ensure the colonies on the west coast joined Confederation. Do get over yourself.

[August1991]

Ridiculously low royalties.

I don't know if the royalties are "ridiculously" low. One could argue that they are just low.

Whenever there is discussion of raising royalties, the small independent companies involved in the oil and gas business get angry about government taxes.

Our energy sector is a major part of our livelihood, and it seems that some political parties - especially those that garner major support in the East - are likely adopt a taxation policy that would result in significantly less oil and gas production if elected.

Jim, what's your point?

We just elected a Conservative majority government.

[punked]

The reason you "gave" us the railroad is so that you could plunder our resources. Ever heard of the wheat board? Forcing western farmers to sell at the prices you set. Punitive import duties on farm implements for which we had to pay horrendous transportation costs for tractors et al which were inferior eastern Canada products. And on it goes.

In fact you owe us.

You live in a pretend land where History doesn't matter. Your provinces demanded and rightfully so a Railroad and grain elevators. The East spent Billions giving you those things, we had plenty of food, plenty of money, and plenty of resources. However we wanted a united Canada so we gave you those things so you could grow and develop. Now all you do is whine because you are paying very little on what you realistically owe the East who spent its riches helping you develop.

[Hydraboss]

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Thanks dad.

[Tilter]

Here. A thumbnail:

http://pushedleft.blogspot.com/2009/12/i-agree-with-andrew-coyne-parliament.html

'Helped' is accurate. '.. we all paid for the oil fields not just albertans and lets remember the ''scum of the east''helped in a huge way to built alberta to what it is today.' is , IMO, too strong an assertion.

Diefenbaker managed to bring something of a western perspective to parliament hill for a bit. It was a short interlude in a long history.

And ruin to the Armed Forces, the aviation industry and made the PCs the enemy of the armed forces forever--- Altho I now vote Harper I still have a mad on at Deef--- I was in the RCAF at the time & if he survived teh many curses put on his head at the time it's only because he didn't believe in VOODO

[RNG]

Actually, it was to ensure the colonies on the west coast joined Confederation. Do get over yourself.

And why did they want the colonies on the west coast to join, if not to plunder them?

[RNG]

You live in a pretend land where History doesn't matter. Your provinces demanded and rightfully so a Railroad and grain elevators. The East spent Billions giving you those things, we had plenty of food, plenty of money, and plenty of resources. However we wanted a united Canada so we gave you those things so you could grow and develop. Now all you do is whine because you are paying very little on what you realistically owe the East who spent its riches helping you develop.

Nice revisionism. Read a little history.

[g_bambino]

And why did they want the colonies on the west coast to join, if not to plunder them?

Has it never dawned on you that the colonies wanted to join Confederation? They were small, poor, didn't have many defences, were far from available reinforcements, and the US had its Manifest Destiny. The decision was mutually beneficial.

[sp]

Edited May 15, 2011 by g_bambino

[punked]

Nice revisionism. Read a little history.

Yeah ok I think I got the History down. Again the railroad was build for the West, not the East we already had what we needed, we were Rich and connected to the States through ports. We spent out money to build a rail road so the West could be settled.

[RNG]

Yeah ok I think I got the History down. Again the railroad was build for the West, not the East we already had what we needed, we were Rich and connected to the States through ports. We spent out money to build a rail road so the West could be settled.

You got that half right. Yes, you built it so it could be settled. So you could screw us on transporting our beef and grain to the east at rates you set. And transport your shitty manufactured goods to us inspite of the fact that 50 miles away in the US was way better and way cheaper stuff. Good on you. You won. Way to go.

[Smallc]

You got that half right. Yes, you built it so it could be settled. So you could screw us on transporting our beef and grain to the east at rates you set. And transport your shitty manufactured goods to us inspite of the fact that 50 miles away in the US was way better and way cheaper stuff. Good on you. You won. Way to go.

So you lived in Alberta in in the 1800s then, I'm assuming? And you must be aboriginal. Oh yes, and everything in the US is better. Right.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Smallc