g_bambino Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Multiple gods are a human invention. Given that we've no clue if there really is a god or are gods, or even of what that which we call a god actually is, if any exist, then all gods are a human invention, or, the concept of them, anyway. The bible is a pretty clever and wise bit of work Except for all the inexplicable claims and inherent contradictions. [c/e] Edited June 8, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
Oleg Bach Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Given that we've no clue if there really is a god or are gods, or even of what that which we call a god actually is, if any exist, then all gods are a human invention, or, the concept of them, anyway. Except for all the inexplicable claims and inherent contradictions. [c/e] Mankind operates in a political way that is smoke and mirrors that is religion - don't let mankind spoil it for you...just because the lie a lot and dirty up the great concept of God...The proof is in the pudding - we are a miracle and I don't need virgins having babies or dead men walking to prove that to me. Religion for the most part is about control - there has never been a seperation of church and state - the are the same! If you seperate your self from church and state - then you are a step closer to the truth - reality and God...it's physics..the universe thinks! Quote
cybercoma Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Scoffers ask a lot of whys which I dismiss as being so petty! And irrelevant! Of course you do because that's the foundation of rational thought. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Give me one other religious faith that has an ancient book much similar to the Bible that has science-proven facts pertaining to origin! As far as I know, only the Bible has these facts dead on! Science hasn't actually settled on origins yet, so I'm not really sure where you're getting "science-proven facts pertaining to origin!" Quote
GostHacked Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Mankind operates in a political way that is smoke and mirrors that is religion - don't let mankind spoil it for you...just because the lie a lot and dirty up the great concept of God...The proof is in the pudding - we are a miracle and I don't need virgins having babies or dead men walking to prove that to me. Religion for the most part is about control - there has never been a seperation of church and state - the are the same! If you seperate your self from church and state - then you are a step closer to the truth - reality and God...it's physics..the universe thinks! I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter Oleg!! That was spot on. Quote
Saipan Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 I just happened to watch the movie Avatar last night. You must have lot of spare time to waste Quote
Saipan Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 The proof is in the pudding No, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". Quote
segnosaur Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Scoffers ask a lot of whys which I dismiss as being so petty! And irrelevant! Well, I guess cybercoma wins... rather than addressing the issues she runs away and ignores the issues. So much for her claim of being interested in "debate". What's the matter betsy? Were you unable to find a web site to steal information from? Were all your creationist fanboy sites unequipped to deal with those issues? Oh, and by the way, those issues are far from irrelevant. It is you that is making the rather false claim that the bible is somehow "accurate" based on cherry-picked information. But if you're going to suggest its divinely inspired, you're going to have to do more than selecting one or 2 cases. After all, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now again. After all, if your claim that "some correct information implies god exists", then the fact that Harry Potter mentioned London (a city known to exist) means that magic wants and flying broom sticks exist too. Like one poster ask about why God does not know the mustard seed is not the smallest, or rabbits' eating ways. These examples he gave were all obvious and observable to all people during those days! Didn't they see rabbits aren't like cows? Your response makes no sense. Your claim is that god exists because the bible has things that weren't observed. Yet here is a situation where the bible is flat out wrong. People may have seen that "rabbits aren't like cows", but whomever wrote the bible didn't know that rabbits don't chew cud. So, try dealing with those issues with, you know, actual logical, rational thought. The premise - or would you say "pattern" - of the topic is completely lost to some posters! Oh, we know what the "pattern" is.... - Betsy the thief spams the thread with a bunch of bogus, easily debunked claims. - Betsy the hypocrite asks people to respond to the bogus claims that she produces, but fails to respond in kind - Betsy the liar claims that she's interested in "debate", yet when challenged she runs and hides Do we have the pattern correct? The facts listed are Biblical declarations that were proven true by science thousands of years after they were declared in the Bible! Actually, most of those "facts" were already well known long before the bible was written. That's been illustrated to you multiple times. Its only through sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la! I'm not listening" that you've dealt with that fact. Oh, and in case you forgot, here's the list that you've been running away from. I know your hypocrisy won't allow you to deal with the issues, and your reliance on spamming and stealing won't let you address the issues properly, but I'll post it again just to remind people how empty your logic is. (I've added a new one too!) - who on Noah's ark had AIDS? Who had herpes? Who had Ebola? Or one of any number of diseases? - If there was a global flood, how did the fish survive? After all, most species of fish have very specific salinity requirements. A massive flood is going to make the water far less salty and probably kill most of the fresh water species - What is your scientific definition of a "kind"? - Why is micro-evolution acceptable but not macro-evolution? What is limiting micro-evolution to prevent large-scale changes? - Why does the bible (which supposedly has no contradictions) give different paternal grandparents for jebus? - Why does the bible (which supposedly has no contradictions) give a different order of creation in Genesis 1 and 2? - Why does the bible (which supposedly has no contradictions) different methods of death for Judas? - Why does jebus (the "son of god, the creator of everything) not know that the mustard seed is not the smallest? - Why does the bible not know that rabbits do not chew their own cud? - You attempted to suggest that the "finality" of creation in genesis is somehow proven by "the big bang". But how can that be, if genesis also indicates that god created the stars at that time too, yet astronomers have identified "new" stars being created at this moment. Edited June 8, 2011 by segnosaur Quote
cybercoma Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Well, I guess cybercoma wins... rather than addressing the issues she runs away and ignores the issues. So much for her claim of being interested in "debate". I don't know what I win, but I'm excited enough to be fist pumping like someone that didn't make the cut for Jersey Shore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJFIca6J5BM&feature=related Quote
segnosaur Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Well, I guess cybercoma wins... rather than addressing the issues she runs away and ignores the issues. So much for her claim of being interested in "debate". I don't know what I win... Well, you said you bet $100 that she would run away and ignore the issues, so I guess you win that. However, its all in virtual internet "theoretical" money. (I refer you South park Season 12, Episode 4: Canada on Strike.) but I'm excited enough to be fist pumping like someone that didn't make the cut for Jersey Shore: Why does watching that video make me think of gay fetish affictionados? Quote
betsy Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Those that take any religious manuscript literally and in an overly trusting manner are fools - Liars and manipulators of man kind have existed for eons. Of course, that's where faith comes in. Liars and manipulators of mankind are not found exclusively from writers of religious manuscripts! They can also come from some science....or politics....or the school boards....or the UN....or the media. They can even come from forums like this (especially when their claims are unsubstantiated!) THUS it is a mistake to believe that the bible has not been tampered with Whether the Bible's been "tampered' with or not, is not the point! Whoever gave the Biblical declarations listed in this topic - the list of FACTS that have this kind of font - had gotten the facts dead-on! Proven by science! That's the point. - If something in scripture smells foul and defys logic it is a lie...to be tossed aside. Biblical declarations that are proven true by science cannot be called a lie! How can something that's true be a lie? In fact, dismissing it outright and tossing it aside is illogical! At the very least, the Bible should be read seriously and studied with an open-mind by those who truly seek knowledge! Those tied down by an equally strong faith - such as the atheistic faith of non-existence of gods - are the ones most likely to dismiss and refuse to engage the Bible with an open-minded. It's understandable. To do so would mean to question - if not to negate - the validity of their own faith. Edited June 9, 2011 by betsy Quote
BubberMiley Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) At the very least, the Bible should be read seriously and studied with an open-mind by those who truly seek knowledge! But if the facts are randomly interspersed with the exaggerations and the lies, how are you to truly get knowledge? Edited June 9, 2011 by BubberMiley Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
betsy Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) But if the facts are randomly interspersed with the exaggerations and the lies, how are you to truly get knowledge? The FACTS listed are undeniably dead-on! Information that can only be known by the Creator. And if you assume that the facts came from the Creator, why would you assume He's telling lies? The facts that's listed here did not get discovered by science all at once and at the same time! For some reasons known only to Him, understanding comes at His own pace - we know what He wants us to know, when he wants us to know! Some verses in the Bible are usually taken out of context. Certain parts are quote-mined to suit one's argument/rebutt conveniently. Some passages are metaphors or figures of speech....we need to find out which ones. That's why an open-minded study of the Bible is important -especially for those who truly seek knowledge. Just because we do not understand some things does not mean they're not true. Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV) 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Edited June 9, 2011 by betsy Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Just because we do not understand some things does not mean they're not true. I'd take that to heart if I were u. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
scouterjim Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Just because we do not understand some things does not mean they're not true. nor does it mean they ARE true! Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
cybercoma Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 They can even come from forums like this (especially when their claims are unsubstantiated!) Stuff this good couldn't be written. Quote
betsy Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) nor does it mean they ARE true! Ahhh....that depends. If a rag-tag science keeps changing its version in a span of only a little bit more than a century just so to say evolution is true - and yet up to now hasn't produced a single valid irrefutable evidence - I'll agree with you on that. ESPECIALLY when they've got a long history of fraud, falsification of data, hoaxes, making unsubstantiated claims....and who knows what other trickery up their sleeves! Right there it already shows lies and deliberate deceptions. That definitely doesn't bode well. It doesn't mean they're true, or what more it doesn't seem that they're even on the right track! Furthermore, science does not conduct a thorough quest for knowledge. It sets parameters as to how far they can go, eliminating other possibilities that do not belong within its set parameters! Why do you set boundaries if you really wanna know? If the answer is not found in the natural....then you've got to be open at least, to explore the supernatural! If it ain't complete, it can't be conclusive! BUT - and this is a very big BUT - if a book such as the Bible got several Biblical declarations that's been proven right-on by our modern-day science - irrefutable, mind you - you guys should open your minds and pay attention. I'm not asking you to believe it all, nor do I expect that from you. At least, read , study and understand it! Why bury your heads in the sand? Don't tell me we're part ostrich too? Ground hog? Edited June 10, 2011 by betsy Quote
BubberMiley Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 if you assume that the facts came from the Creator, why would you assume He's telling lies? Because there is no scientific evidence that Lot's wife could have just turned to salt like that. Just because it got some basic facts right, like the sky is blue and there's rocks in the ocean, doesn't mean we should start to pretend the laws of nature don't exist. It's sad that you somehow think god's evolutionary world isn't good enough for you. Personally, I'm impressed. I hope he doesn't hold your criticism against you. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Saipan Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 doesn't mean we should start to pretend the laws of nature don't exist. Law means some kind of order. Where did that came from and how? Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Why bury your heads in the sand? Don't tell me we're part ostrich too? Ground hog? LOL Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Because there is no scientific evidence that Lot's wife could have just turned to salt like that. Some ideas cannot be conveyed without the use of metaphor. And this is true in science as well. I'm talking about science's narrative on cosmology, which we laypersons cannot possibly comprehend without scientists use of metaphor to give us some idea of what they're talking about. And although we average people don't get it, we accept those metaphors carte-blanche. A form of "faith". Check out his comments, in particular starting at 14 minutes in. Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Follow up to what I just said- Dr. Gates now embraces Einstein's expression, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." He has found knowledge to be finite, while imagination pushes the boundaries of possibility. To him mathematics is an "extrasensory perception organ" that allows him to perceive the world in ways beyond our conventional senses. "The universe is an incredibly ordered structure and mathematics is how we understand that order," Gates says. He likens it to musicians in a world without instruments who can only speak about sheet music to one another. While nonmusicians do not understand the conversation, musicians hear the notes and melodies in their head. http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2003_11_21/noDOI.14388540961401175455 The general public who are not musicians can only appreciate the "score" by listening to its sounds. Quote
g_bambino Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Biblical declarations that are proven true by science cannot be called a lie! That's just a statement of the obvious. So, what's your point, then? The Bible speaks of light and mountains. Big deal. Shouldn't we really be looking at all the claims made by the Bible that are proven by science to be impossible? Such as a global flood, let alone one that dessimated the world's population of everything and yet life in all its diversity sprang back even in the absence of such a thing as evolution. Or, perhaps the notion that a sea could be divided on command. Or that an entire species could spring from only two of its kind without the subsequent necessity of incest. The list goes on. [punct] Edited June 9, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
betsy Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Science hasn't actually settled on origins yet, so I'm not really sure where you're getting "science-proven facts pertaining to origin!" FACT: The universe is expressed by time, space, matter and energy FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity. FACT: The earth is round. FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars. FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea. FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks FACT: A finished creation. FACT: The universe is deteriorating FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning FACT:: Existence of ocean currents FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!” FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean! All those facts describes God's creation(s) - all science-proven facts! Information that only the Creator can know. Edited June 10, 2011 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) That's just a statement of the obvious. Quite an impressive "obvious," too! FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity. FACT: The earth is round. FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars. FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea. FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks FACT: Noah’s Ark and Ship Building FACT: “Many of the great scientists of the past who founded and developed the key disciplines of science were creationists!” FACT: A finished creation. FACT: The universe is deteriorating FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning FACT:: Existence of ocean currents FACT: SCIENCE REMAINS BAFFLED! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle FACT: PROPHECIES HAVE COME TRUE! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!” FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WOUND, SKIN and DISCHARGE PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WASTE DISPOSAL FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health {/size] DIAGNOSIS and ISOLATION FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health CORPSES and BURIAL PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health FOOD and DRINKING WATER SAFETY FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health PROMISCUITY, UNLAWFUL LIFESTYLES and DISEASE FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean! So, what's your point, then? The Bible speaks of light and mountains. Big deal. Then I suggest you go back and read the details of the facts listed above! There's no sense discussing this with you if all you get from all these are light and mountains! Shouldn't we really be looking at all the claims made by the Bible that are proven by science to be impossible? Why shouldn't we instead look at all the frauds, hoaxes, falsification of data, unsubstantaited claims, revisions, blunders and bloopers made by so-called science to support evolution? Edited June 10, 2011 by betsy Quote
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