Shady Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Accusing someone of a crime he did not commit is a different matter. Ah, but Harper has been accused of committing crimes. As have others. I guess the moderators pick and choose which libel they seek to enforce. Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Because getting a massage in a licensed establishment is not the same thing as having sex with children. Why do you need that spelled out? What the hell is wrong with you? The only license I'm aware of that they could be talking about is a Toronto bodyrub license, which is issued by the city. Are you aware of another kind? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Not at all. It's just that some people here are being obtuse, and can't admit the possibility, regarding the details of the story. Interesting, isn't it, that those who come to the conclusion Layton did not commit an illegal act are basing it on the actual text of the notes that were released, while those who think otherwise have to add things that do not appear anywhere? Quote
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I would never imply such a thing, myself. I might SAY it outright, of course. At least you're direct. Quote
kimmy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Not me. And it wouldn't matter if he was a Tory. I don't vote for people based on whether they like to have sex with willing people or not. The 'massage therapist' who was with him was in her mid twenties, didn't speak much English and 'just started the other day'. From reading that, I rather doubt she was the sort of 'registered massage therapists' that respectable massage clinics employ. If it was someone who had made a career out of moralizing such things, ie, Stockwell Day, or someone similar that would affect my vote. But if his wife has no problem with him wanting a 'massage' from a pretty Asian girl then I don't either. Jack Layton *has* made a career of moralizing about such things. He portrays himself as a champion of equality and dignity for women, and he's called for a ban on lap-dances. Patronizing a place where young immigrant women are exploited is absolutely a betrayal of the feminist values Layton claims to uphold. Just as much as a "family values" politician cheating on his wife, or an anti-gay crusader "tapping his foot" in a bathroom stall. So we need to know two things: Did he actually go to such a place? Did he do so knowingly? I would think that if you show up at a clinic and it's dimly lit and peopled by pretty asian girls you might be expected to have some suspicions about its purpose. :-) Well, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. I would think that there would be things that might tip you off if you were at that sort of place. The words "massage" and "Chinatown" appearing in the same sentence are a tip-off for most people. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bloodyminded Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Interesting, isn't it, that those who come to the conclusion Layton did not commit an illegal act are basing it on the actual text of the notes that were released, while those who think otherwise have to add things that do not appear anywhere? Interesting, yes. We haven't "considered the possibility." Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Not having enough evidence to arrest somebody isn't the same as being incompetent. You're right. It's not the same thing. Not having enough evidence to arrest somebody says that there's not enough evidence to consider someone to have engaged in criminal activities. A point that seems to be completely lost on you. Quote
Shady Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Did he actually go to such a place? Did he do so knowingly? Good questions kimmy. But Layton either won't answer, or hasn't been asked. And in terms of what was asked of him at the time of the incident, he refused to answer certain questions then as well. One has to wonder why? Quote
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 So we need to know two things: Did he actually go to such a place? He was in the place in question, that was never denied. Did he do so knowingly? The only conclusion one can get from reading the police notes posted by Sun is that there is no evidence to the allegation that Layton was there for the purpose of engaging in sex. Quote
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Good questions kimmy. But Layton either won't answer, or hasn't been asked. And in terms of what was asked of him at the time of the incident, he refused to answer certain questions then as well. One has to wonder why? Why? because he didn't have to. Simple. But then, simple is not your forte, unlike simplistic. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 The words "massage" and "Chinatown" appearing in the same sentence are a tip-off for most people. -k Nobody go to a massage parlour with Asian masseuses. They're all prostitutes. Yikes. Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 The following is anecdotal, but I have no doubt in my mind that it probably happens everywhere. I have a friend who went through classes to become a registered massage therapists. She doesn't give rub and tugs and she's not a prostitute. In fact, it infuriates her when people even suggest such a stupid thing and "customers" have been thrown out and banned from the place she works for even suggesting that she do anything remotely sexual. Does she do massages on naked men? Because it seems to me that a respectable establishment would have men massaging men and women massaging women. Of course, it doesn't sound like this establishment had any male masseuses... Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Shady Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Why? because he didn't have to. Simple. But then, simple is not your forte, unlike simplistic. If he wasn't doing anything wrong, why couldn't he answer some simple questions from the police? Oh right, because he didn't have to. The cop: "Why did you have all your clothes off?"The suspected john (Layton): No answer. The cop: "Are you aware that there were sex acts being done here?" The suspected john (Layton): "No sir." So he's at a place where there were actual sex acts taken place. He's completely naked, but when asked by the officer why he had all of his clothes off, he couldn't answer. Hmmm, it's not rocket science to suspect something a little fishy going on. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Does she do massages on naked men? Because it seems to me that a respectable establishment would have men massaging men and women massaging women. Of course, it doesn't sound like this establishment had any male masseuses... There are very few male masseuses, just like there are very few male nurses or dental assistants. It's a profession dominated by women.As to your question, "Does she do massages on naked men?" She certainly doesn't do massages through a person's clothes. Do you really have no idea what happens in a massage clinic? You shouldn't be criticizing Layton if you don't. Quote
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Nobody go to a massage parlour with Asian masseuses. They're all prostitutes. Yikes. Absolutely. A few years back, I had treatment, not message though, following at a health clinic following an accident at work. They also had message therapy, and some of their staff was Asian. I realize only now that I was in a bawdy house. Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Is it wrong that i think i like Jack Layton MORE for going into an asian massage parlour and possibly getting jerked? Weird maybe... Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Interesting, isn't it, that those who come to the conclusion Layton did not commit an illegal act are basing it on the actual text of the notes that were released, while those who think otherwise have to add things that do not appear anywhere? I don't think legality is necessarily the issue. For those who care, it's an issue of morality. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I don't think legality is necessarily the issue. For those who care, it's an issue of morality. I don't find it particularly immoral to go to a massage clinic and have a legal massage. Quote
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I'm finding I'm more and more glad I didn't vote Conservative. Quote
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 If he wasn't doing anything wrong, why couldn't he answer some simple questions from the police? Oh right, because he didn't have to. You know of course that the "he must have done something wrong if he doesn't answer" argument would not last five seconds in a court of law. Not that this is a court of law, of course, but people will have to come with something a lot better than "he didn't answer a question". So he's at a place where there were actual sex acts taken place.You know that because... people where actually arrested? Cops saying to someone "do you know this is a bawdy house" is not proof that it was one. And having read the notes, you know of course that he answered no to that question. Hmmm, it's not rocket science to suspect something a little fishy going on. You are right on something (for once). It's not rocket science, far from it. It's nothing more than idle speculation fuelled by political hatred. Quote
kimmy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 He was in the place in question, that was never denied. Yes, everybody agrees that Jack Layton was at a certain establishment on Jan 9, 1996. What I want to know, and has not been answered to my satisfaction in any of the articles I've read, is this: What kind of place *was* it? Is it a place where trained therapists in professional attire perform a therapeutic service? Or is it a place where young women who don't speak english wander around half dressed and there's dim lighting and dirty mattresses and some kind of weird odor in the air? My opinion hinges on that. If it was the former type of a place, and the cops showed up based on a false complaint or something, then no problem. If it was the latter sort of place, then if he's a real feminist he would have got his ass out of their immediately. Nobody go to a massage parlour with Asian masseuses. They're all prostitutes. Yikes. Oh FFS. That wasn't the implication. We all know that "Chinatown massage parlor" has a certain connotation. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I don't think legality is necessarily the issue. For those who care, it's an issue of morality. The only immorality here is that of those who insist that Jack Layton committed something immoral (or illegal) with no actual concrete evidence of it, and that for the sole porpose of scoring political points. Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Nobody go to a massage parlour with Asian masseuses. They're all prostitutes. Yikes. I've never been to a massage ... place. The closest would be a physiotherapist last summer for my back. This place was like a medical office, very brightly lit, very professional, people in white coats, wide open area, storefront windows, with male and female physiotherapists. Yes, there were private rooms, much like medical clinic rooms. I was in a couple during visits - with not particularly handsome male physiotherapists, and these rooms do have tables for massage and other purposes. Nobody I saw was ever naked, though, and none of the staff were particularly attractive, and they paired males with males and females with females. The place had all the luster of a dentists office. This is the sort of place I would expect to find if I needed a massage. It doesn't sound very similar to the place smiling Jack went. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Yes, everybody agrees that Jack Layton was at a certain establishment on Jan 9, 1996. What I want to know, and has not been answered to my satisfaction in any of the articles I've read, is this: What kind of place *was* it? Is it a place where trained therapists in professional attire perform a therapeutic service? Or is it a place where young women who don't speak english wander around half dressed and there's dim lighting and dirty mattresses and some kind of weird odor in the air? My opinion hinges on that. If it was the former type of a place, and the cops showed up based on a false complaint or something, then no problem. If it was the latter sort of place, then if he's a real feminist he would have got his ass out of their immediately.[/Quote] The issue is actually did a go thinking that this was a place where sexual acts were performed, or expected (wanted) sexual acts to be performed on it. The evidence available makes it very clear that, when asked "do you know this is a bawdy house", his answer was "no". Period. Edited April 30, 2011 by CANADIEN Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I'm finding I'm more and more glad I didn't vote Conservative. Yes, yes, we've already heard from you on several occasions how much more noble and tolerant than us you are, Smallc. But if it makes you feel more appropriately self-righteous you go on repeating it. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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