Conservaphobia

[taxedman]

What in the world is with people? I can't understand this fear of change. It seems to me that Liberal voters must know a hell of a lot more about the Conservatives and Steven Harper than I do. I think they must be psychic because they go on about what Harper and the Conservatives will do if they get into a majority positon. Good Gawd, as if it can be anything worse than what we have had to put up with for the past 30 years! I hope the Conservatives get in with a minority and join up with the Bloc! That should shake up the country! Senate Reform for instance. Take some of the voting power from future Dictators, similiar to our past Dictators such as Trudeau and Chretien. Could you imagine having a government that considers the good of the whole Country instead of the centre of the universe? Could you imagine building industry over in the maritimes or on the prairies? No wonder Liberal voters are scared that the conservatives might get in power. Can you imagine having a justice system that protects the victims or serves the victims instead of worrying about the convicts? Can you imagine getting decent health care? Conservaphobia. Take a pill you Liberal voters. I'm tired of being unreasonably taxed, and herded around by annoying Liberals.

[August1991]

What in the world is with people? I can't understand this fear of change. It seems to me that Liberal voters must know a hell of a lot more about the Conservatives and Steven Harper than I do.

The English Canada nomenclatura went along with Liberal spin. Harper knew the Liberals would do this but the Tories apparently bungled the response.

Compare this with Duceppe. The Liberal scare tactics are half-hearted, don't work and look really, really dumb.

Harper tried to run a Duceppe campaign. It worked for one, but not the other.

[Cartman]

People are fearful of the Conservatives because of the Tory legacy in the 1980's and the constant scary things said by several of their candidates. I mean some really shocking things were said. One has the right to say that homosexuality is a sin or is immoral and they have the right to compare abortion to the beheading of Westerners in Iraq, but I sure would not want to give them a chance to become influential Minister(s) in the government. We need professional representation not rhetoric. Every time Harper has to shut up a candidate, it makes you wonder what else would be said if he was not censoring them. They should stop blaming the media for reporting their stupid statements. I hate when they play the role of victim.

[Analyst]

Well Their Bogeyman is Falling out of the Closet-- It Appears the Whole Electorate isn't buying the Tory Propaganda machine and their Sneaky Agenda.....

[takeanumber]

Did anybody hear what Hearn said on CBC?

Something to the effect: If the rest of Canada has any sense, we'll have a blue government.

WTF

The Canadian voter is always right. If there isn't a Blue government, does that mean Canadians don't have any sense.

Jeebus. Look at the arrogance already!?!?!?!?!

[idealisttotheend]

I noticed that too. I too thought that some humility would be good but they lost 10% of their combined vote over last time, not really a sign but if it was it wouldn't be a good one for them.

[takeanumber]

Cons don't seem to have any humility.

Nobody wants to talk about the fact that the Cons are down 11 percent in Atlantic Canada.

But I'm sure some Con "strategist" will open up his gullet to find something ignorant to say.

[idealisttotheend]

Looks like Brison just gave it to Harper good, maybe he should post to this thread.

[Hawk]

First off I agree Lib scare tactics dont work, I was a scrutineer at my polling station and despite a massive amount of advertising by the Liberal candidate he was destroyed.

Also I am sick of this unfounded fear in the right-wing, the Tories are not the Conservative Party of Canada and if you think they are you need some SERIOUS lessons in politics and history =p

[August1991]

I don't know where you are Hawk but those Liberal attack ads worked in Ontario but they didn't work in Quebec.

I spent the last few days in the two provinces and that was obvious to me.

Attack ads work in Canada (or at least in Ontario). That will be the lesson of this election.

[Hawk]

Attack ads only work on the ignorant, hence it worked in Ontario (although a large amount of people in Ontario went Conservative... but it was just not enough) =p Quebec is too stubbornly BQ to be majorly affected by the Liberals and their smear campaigns

[August1991]

Hawk, Ontario is the least confident part of Canada - with BC a flaky second.

The Ontario fear is that if Canada falls apart, Ontario becomes Michigan. The Liberal Party has played on this fear before.

A Corner Brook Liberal vote is not at all the same thing as a Brampton Liberal vote.

Make no mistake, Stephen Harper was presented as a threat to Ontario.

The Liberal ads got them at least 25 seats in Ontario and enough to form a legitimate government.

[Hawk]

True enough, but considering Harper had basically no support in Ontario at all the fact he managed to convince enough people to pull off the seats they did (or the close calls) is rather impressive regardless of the Liberal scare tactics... Ontario has lived too long under the scourge of Liberalism, they need to be freed from it for at least a term or two to know what it feels like and to stop fearing life without Liberals

[Argus]

People are fearful of the Conservatives because of the Tory legacy in the 1980's and the constant scary things said by several of their candidates.  I mean some really shocking things were said.  One has the right to say that homosexuality is a sin or is immoral and they have the right to compare abortion to the beheading of Westerners in Iraq, but I sure would not want to give them a chance to become influential Minister(s) in the government.  We need professional representation not rhetoric.  Every time Harper has to shut up a candidate, it makes you wonder what else would be said if he was not censoring them.  They should stop blaming the media for reporting their stupid statements.  I hate when they play the role of victim.

Why shouldn't they blame the media? The media was actively searching out Tories who were on the right on social issues, pestering and prodding them, looking for a quotable quote to scare people. The fact is there are just as many "out there" candidates for the Liberals and NDP, but nobody was paying any attention to them. The media weren't following Liberal anti-abortion candidates around looking for quotes. They weren't following the more left wing NDP types around, or badgering them for quotes. They didn't care that some NDP candidates were less than enthusiastic about gay marriage or the like.

Cheryl Gallant and the others were simply speaking their minds, and representing their people. Apparently that's not allowed in Canada, where the Toronto media requires everyone believe the same as they do on all issues.

You'll notice that all three of the 'notorious social conservatives", got re-elected by their constituents. Apparently their comments weren't controversial to THEM, only to the Toronto media.

[Argus]

Well Their Bogeyman is Falling out of the Closet-- It Appears the Whole Electorate isn't buying the Tory Propaganda machine and their Sneaky Agenda.....

You know who gets afraid of the bogeyman, Analyst? Children. Most adults who aren't halfwits know there's no such thing. Harper's agenda was far from radical, and nothing was hidden. But the Liberals flung mud and enough ignorant people feared it "might" be true to not support honest government.

One old fellow told me that he'd like to vote Tory, but Stephen Harper was going to cancel the Canada Pension Plan, which is all he has to live on. I read an NDP supporter, until recently Vice President of the PSAC write that the Tories would "criminalize homosexuality" Yes, put gay people in prison. There was just a big, tidal wave of wild assed accusations which the gullible and ignorant bought.

Paul Martin's performance during this election was disgusting. The man revealed himself to be unprincipled, dishonest, and willing to do anything to get elected. So after Chretien, we get yet another slimeball as prime minister.

[Argus]

Nobody wants to talk about the fact that the Cons are down 11 percent in Atlantic Canada.

But I'm sure some Con "strategist" will open up his gullet to find something ignorant to say.

It was pretty obvious Atlantic Canada is addicted to government handouts and feared Harper would curtail them.

[Argus]

I don't know where you are Hawk but those Liberal attack ads worked in Ontario but they didn't work in Quebec.

I spent the last few days in the two provinces and that was obvious to me.

Attack ads work in Canada (or at least in Ontario). That will be the lesson of this election.

I think I saw Liberal attack ads several times a day, and heard them even more often on the radio. I never saw even one tory ad until Sunday night. And never heard one on the radio. I don't know what they were doing with their money, but they sure weren't using it to counter the Liberal attack machine. I saw more NDP commercials than Tory commercials, by at least a five to one margin.

Mudslinging works. You would think the Tories would realize this. It's the fourth straight election the LIberals have employed their mudslinging fear campaign, and it's worked every time.

[Michael Hardner]

Mudslinging works. You would think the Tories would realize this.

No.. Fearmongering works.

Mudslinging is like when you try to say your opponent supports child porn.

[Cartman]

Though the media could do a better job creating a forum where politicians could actually spell out their ideas (rather than just yell at each other), they are not responsible for the inability of the Cons to form government. Canadians were simply unwilling to offer any party a mandate, in part, because none of the leaders really spelled out a new, attractive vision of Canada. Every time Mulroney went to the polls, he revealed clear agendas and received strong mandates. If "Conservaphobia" exists, surely we can refer to "NDPhobia" (fear of grotesque taxing and spending), even though they have balanced budgets in several Provinces, never formed a fed. government while both Cons and Libs have run deficits in the past. Low voter turnout, no clear mandate given = little will happen.

[August1991]

I know what happened. All my girlfriends in Toronto and 905-land went behind that little box and came down with serious yip-yips about Stephen Harper, and they all wound up doing what Paul Martin told them to. Paul may be as exciting as cold porridge but he won't screw it up.

Wente in the G&M

There were about 25 Ontario seats that went Liberal because of the Liberal attack ads. Those ads scared people, women in particular.

That will be the lesson of this campaign.

[idealisttotheend]

I agree the attack ads were effective in getting votes both from Con voters and NDP voters. I think the point must be made though that the fears were not created they were just played on. Ontario has always been suspicious of Western based parties espousing policies that would attack the desire of Ontarions for stability. But maybe with new moderate candadates in Ontario people will see the new Cons more like the old PCs and they may do better in the next election unless any of them open their mouths too wide in the interm.

[The Terrible Sweal]

...

Also I am sick of this unfounded fear in the right-wing,...

But that's just it, isn't it. 'Fear' of the right wing may be a clever shorthand way to describe it, but what it really is is people don't want what the right has to offer:

-undermined federalism

-devastation of institutions and social infrastructure

-the mingling of church and state

-confusion of our interests with America's

[Black Dog]

The Canadian right is an arrogant bunch. We saw it the Harperites' brash predictions of a Con majority. And we see it now after the election, as the cockiness turns to whining and petulance. "It's the media! It's the Liberal fearmongering!" (Never mind that Harper's own people did as good a job striking fear into the hearts of Canadians with their various bouts of verbal diarreha concerning the Charter, abortion, same sex mariage, etc, than the Liberals ever could have hoped to with their "attack" ads)

Of course, never does it occur to them that maybe less than 30 per cent of Canadians vote Tory is because the remaining 70 per cent think the Con vision is a load of codswollop.

There was just a big, tidal wave of wild assed accusations which the gullible and ignorant bought.

Ah yes, if you didn't vote Con because you had (valid) concerns with their agenda, you're "gullible and ignorant". Uncle Stephen knows what's best.

I would posit that the truly "gullible and ignorant" are the working class Canadians who actualy believe the Con-jobs have anything to offer them, or that a Harper government would be any less corrupt than the Liberals, or the PC's who preceded them.

In any case, the problems of the Canadian system cannot be fixed without a rather massive overhaul, such as implementing proportional representation.

[Michael Hardner]

The Canadian right is an arrogant bunch. We saw it the Harperites' brash predictions of a Con majority. And we see it now after the election, as the cockiness turns to whining and petulance. "It's the media! It's the Liberal fearmongering!" (Never mind that Harper's own people did as good a job striking fear into the hearts of Canadians with their various bouts of verbal diarreha concerning the Charter, abortion, same sex mariage, etc, than the Liberals ever could have hoped to with their "attack" ads)

Well, if it weren't for the fearmongering, would we have ever known about Randy White's opinions ?

Ah yes, if you didn't vote Con because you had (valid) concerns with their agenda, you're "gullible and ignorant". Uncle Stephen knows what's best.

I would posit that the truly "gullible and ignorant" are the working class Canadians who actualy believe the Con-jobs have anything to offer them, or that a Harper government would be any less corrupt than the Liberals, or the PC's who preceded them.

In any case, the problems of the Canadian system cannot be fixed without a rather massive overhaul, such as implementing proportional representation.

What problems ? What will PR fix ?

I think we need to make democracy more relevant and fix national unity. I don't think PR will achieve this. It will just make it harder for the CPC to gain a foothold.

I mean, if they add 20 PR seats to parliament, how many will go to the right-of-centre party ? Unless they have a whopping majority, less than half of them. Even with the Bloc, they'll get less than half of any PR seats.

This means that more than half of the PR seats will go to left-of-centre parties. Every 10 new PR seats will probably give 2-4 seat advantage to the NDP and Liberals.

[I miss Reagan]

This is good. Alberta is pissed. Maybe will finally get that firewall up and talk about separation. I heard one PC MLA in Alberta has just gone to the Alberta Alliance.