The REAL issues

[Michael Hardner]

The scandal is a giant black mark against the Liberals, no doubt. But is it worth taking a gamble on Harper because of it ?

Every party misleads the voters to a degree - even Reform.

Fiberals are LIARS and MISMANAGERS and have proved it over and over and over again. HRDC $1.4 Billion boondoggle. Well try this one CIDA $1.6 Billion boondoggle. Adscam $350 million. Bilingualism $1.6 billion per annnum since 1974.

ANYONE WHO VOTEs for this gang of liars and mismanagers should be put in prison for THEFT !!

There are worse things that could happen. Capital punishment in Canada, massive auto plant closures, and a poorly thought out health system restructuring project come to mind.

I'm going with Martin this time, even with the scandals. He's the only one of the three major candidates with substantial experience in government, business and law to effect real change and I think he would actually like to try it.

[takeanumber]

Now listen Takeanumber you seem fine with Canada living in a dictatorship, but some people don't.

Such assumptions!

Anyway. I've called and made arrangements. you have your choice between Alabama and Austria.

Which one do you want?

You seem to hate civil rights enough..why don't you go to Alabama?

Though in Austria, you'd get to be anti-immigrant.

Make up your mind.

[August1991]

To English: Harper didn't.  Why? 

???

Harper could have won his majority in English Canada. He didn't. Harper let PM PM get away with far too much, including too often setting the agenda.

Clark almost got a majority in 1979 with a government more popular and more united than this Liberal crew in 2004.

Anyway. I've called and made arrangements. you have your choice between Alabama and Austria.

Alabama is warmer but Vienna is better for walks. I'd suggest a choice based on music preference.

[redwhite]

I'm going with Martin this time, even with the scandals.  He's the only one of the three major candidates with substantial experience in government, business and law to effect real change and I think he would actually like to try it.

Martin has been Prime Minister for six months.

He began by saying that he will not consider his time in government a success unless he involves all regions (specifically the west) and reunites the country. He said he would not call an election until he "gets to the bottom of the sponsorship scandal". He seemed to want to clean up the federal government and he expressed a desire to work honestly with the provinces to improve the healthcare system.

He has accomplished nothing.

He could have governed positively, made progress in getting to the bottom of the scandal and cleaning up the corruption in government, and made some progress on "fixing healthcare", and probably significantly improved our relations with the U.S. given the international respect he has (relative to Chretien, his international stature is through the roof - at least Canadians are not embarrassed everytime he opens his mouth on the international stage).

If he had simply started to do what he promised, or made any effort whatsoever, I believe he very likely would have been untouchable one year from now when he needed to call an election. Accountability could have been restored in government, and maybe Canadians could once again start feeling some pride for being Canadian, not just trying to convince themselves that the best thing Canadians are is not American.

He chose not to live up to his word.

Against the advice of his advisors, he called an early election (before the newly formed CPC was able to hold a policy convention, hoping to catch them offguard) and hoped to walk away with a large unearned majority. It was political opportunism at it's worst. He then launched the most vile negative campaign in Canadian history, choosing to conduct a dishonest, scare mongering campaign and further divide this country.

He had his chance, he was given complete control of this country on December 12, 2003, and he chose to not even try.

He does not deserve another chance.

[Hawk]

Which is probably a good thing, seeing as how most Canadians don't agree with you.

You think most agree with you? I don't think even most people on the fringe left agree with you on much. Your best chance of finding political soul mates came on CPACs question session with junior high students.

ROFL good one man xD Yes Fiberals have an illusion that most Canadians agree with them... well wake up call most Canadians don't like being lied to, led on, stolen from, and generally ignored or abused.

I think health care is more important to more Canadians than whether gays can get married.

Exactly, in my opinion they shouldn't have even done that but what I can't stand is how everyone is freaking out about it.. making it sound like the conservatives are going to go and hang homosexuals by their toe-nails or something.... tolerance and understanding, HA. I would like to know that last time people were tolerant and understanding of my white english-speaking American roots =p

[Hawk]

There are worse things that could happen. Capital punishment in Canada, massive auto plant closures, and a poorly thought out health system restructuring project come to mind.

Capital punishment should be re-instated (I mean come bloody on, someone self-admits to intend to rape and kill again and you are supporting his release into the public? Someone with over 60 crimes on his tab and you still think he should be allowed in society? Your demonic dude, demonic and heartless), auto plant closures are not a government issue (at least it shouldn't be but heck Liberal enjoy centralizing), and the poorly thought our health system NEEDS a restructuring project because it doesn't work as it is.

I'm going with Martin this time, even with the scandals. He's the only one of the three major candidates with substantial experience in government, business and law to effect real change and I think he would actually like to try it.

Your right he does have experience, experience at misleading the public, hiding scandals, and milking the system for all its worth for the gain of the Liberal party. Yeah, he is most certainly the best candidate for a strong, unified, future Canada =p He was Finance Minister during an era of unprecedented government waste and corruption (not surprisingly in his department primarily) and if you can't seem to grasp that Martin is the worst of the 3 evils then you are beyond hope

[willy]

Your right he does have experience, experience at misleading the public, hiding scandals, and milking the system for all its worth for the gain of the Liberal party.

Ever ask how he bought the steam ship company?

Got it for a song off of Power Corp.

How did he get the job at Power Corp?

His dad's buddy gave it to him.

Self made man? Or pig in the trough?

Pension scandal worth $89 million for CSL yet to come.

$170 million in contracts from the feds never investigated.

So if experience counts, he sure knows how to use those connections.

But what debts will he repay if we give him the chance?

[Michael Hardner]

Capital punishment should be re-instated (I mean come bloody on, someone self-admits to intend to rape and kill again and you are supporting his release into the public? Someone with over 60 crimes on his tab and you still think he should be allowed in society? Your demonic dude, demonic and heartless), auto plant closures are not a government issue (at least it shouldn't be but heck Liberal enjoy centralizing), and the poorly thought our health system NEEDS a restructuring project because it doesn't work as it is.

Who is my "demonic dude" ? Are you referring to Harper here or Martin ?

I don't agree with capital punishment and I think even if I did, I would acknowledge the fact that it shouldn't be the kind of thing that a government introduces quickly or without discussion.

and the poorly thought our health system NEEDS a restructuring project because it doesn't work as it is.

It needs a well-thought out restructuring because it has some problems.

Your right he does have experience, experience at misleading the public, hiding scandals, and milking the system for all its worth for the gain of the Liberal party.

He could have hid the scandal, but instead he insisted on a public airing-out of the affair. I don't think he has "milked" the system for personal gain.

For these actions, he's being punished. Chretien would have deftly kicked everything under the rug.

Yeah, he is most certainly the best candidate for a strong, unified, future Canada =p He was Finance Minister during an era of unprecedented government waste and corruption (not surprisingly in his department primarily) and if you can't seem to grasp that Martin is the worst of the 3 evils then you are beyond hope

I think that statement is a little extreme.

I'm reasonable enough to acknowledge that he has been tarnished by the scandal. But he wasn't the PM so exactly how much could he have done about it ?

I think Harper has done his best to hammer home the fact that the scandal was a bad thing for Canada, and people believe that. But it's not enough for me to vote for Harper as PM. He's a politician and a theoretician who needs a little more time in public before he gets the chance to lead.

[Michael Hardner]

Martin has been Prime Minister for six months.

He began by saying that he will not consider his time in government a success unless he involves all regions (specifically the west) and reunites the country. He said he would not call an election until he "gets to the bottom of the sponsorship scandal". He seemed to want to clean up the federal government and he expressed a desire to work honestly with the provinces to improve the healthcare system.

He has accomplished nothing.

Well, he met with the provinces and set up stable funding and the framework for future funding, and discussions.

He could have governed positively, made progress in getting to the bottom of the scandal and cleaning up the corruption in government, and made some progress on "fixing healthcare", and probably significantly improved our relations with the U.S. given the international respect he has (relative to Chretien, his international stature is through the roof - at least Canadians are not embarrassed everytime he opens his mouth on the international stage).

If he had simply started to do what he promised, or made any effort whatsoever, I believe he very likely would have been untouchable one year from now when he needed to call an election. Accountability could have been restored in government, and maybe Canadians could once again start feeling some pride for being Canadian, not just trying to convince themselves that the best thing Canadians are is not American.

He chose not to live up to his word.

How so ? There have been charges laid in the sponsorship scandal haven't there ?

Isn't that enough progress to warrant calling an election to ask for a mandate ?

Against the advice of his advisors, he called an early election (before the newly formed CPC was able to hold a policy convention, hoping to catch them offguard) and hoped to walk away with a large unearned majority. It was political opportunism at it's worst.

Accusing politicians of political opportunism sounds to me like accusing fish of swimming. Not to be cynical, but even Reform had days where it unashamedly grabbed at the brass rign.

He then launched the most vile negative campaign in Canadian history, choosing to conduct a dishonest, scare mongering campaign and further divide this country.

He had his chance, he was given complete control of this country on December 12, 2003, and he chose to not even try.

He does not deserve another chance.

I don't know about scare mongering. The CPC did a good job of giving him things to talk about.

[caesar]

The needed to call an election; they did not have the mandate to rule the country under a Prime Minister that was not at the helm when the last elections took place.

It really wasn't in his self interest to call an election before this "scandal" had time to die down. It was not in the Liberals best interests to call an election this quickly.

Paul Martin was an excellent Minister of Finance; he did serious cuts but they were necessary to cut down the deficit brought about by the Mulroney (Conservative).

Canada is now on better economic footing and may be more able to re fund our social programs.

Despite all the industries that needed help from the Federal governmewnt last year; SARS; BEEF; FOREST FIRES; THE LIBERALS DID NOT ADD TO THE DEFICIT

The "scandal"s not a real big issue with me. We will get more info and get to the bottom of that issue. Unfortantely, there are always some people who will misuse our money for their own purposes; mulroney was suspect, too though it remains unproven.

The Conservatives wish to blow that stability and put us back in debt up to our ears; building a big offensive military to please the aggressive Mr Bush.

An increased defensive military is more importants. We can fulfill our international duties with special teams of expert in peace keeping and rebuilding governments and their police forces. Negotiators. We should fund military expertise that workds towards peaceful solutions not force. We do not need to join in pre emptive aggression that has no real justification.

[Argus]

Now listen Takeanumber you seem fine with Canada living in a dictatorship, but some people don't.

Such assumptions!

Anyway. I've called and made arrangements. you have your choice between Alabama and Austria.

Which one do you want?

You seem to hate civil rights enough..why don't you go to Alabama?

Takeanumber will be off to San Fransisco, of course, where he'll be much happier.

[Argus]

Your right he does have experience, experience at misleading the public, hiding scandals, and milking the system for all its worth for the gain of the Liberal party.

He could have hid the scandal, but instead he insisted on a public airing-out of the affair. I don't think he has "milked" the system for personal gain.

This is simply parotting what Martin said without thinking about it. He could have hidden the scandal? How. The Auditor General's report to parliament was made very, very public, and there was no way he could have covered that up. Furthermore, unlike previous scandals, this one was simple enough that even most of the sheep who don't follow politics were outraged. He could NOT have hidden it. He claimed he was going to get to the bottom of it, but what has he done? The Liberal members of the Public Accounts Commitee were called into the Prime Minister's Office before it began to hold hearings on this and given their marching orders. They did everything they could to slow down the testimony, throwing one procedural argument after another onto the table. They lobbed softball questions at the important witnesses, and opposed calling others. Several members repeatedly talked about how the AG was exagerrating, and how they didn't believe there was really anything there. They called back the AG and others to waste time, and then shut down the commitee early. This is not my idea of getting to the bottom of things.

And do you really buy his claim he knew nothing? This was the most powerful finance minister in history, the number 1 minister in Chretien's cabinet for all those years, the guy with a vast network of contacts and loyalists throughout the Liberal Party, and he didn't know what was going on in his own province? Hell, even the BQ knew, and were making loud noises about it.

I think Martin knew all about it, and is lieing when he says otherwise.

[Michael Hardner]

This is simply parotting what Martin said without thinking about it. He could have hidden the scandal? How. The Auditor General's report to parliament was made very, very public, and there was no way he could have covered that up. Furthermore, unlike previous scandals, this one was simple enough that even most of the sheep who don't follow politics were outraged. He could NOT have hidden it. He claimed he was going to get to the bottom of it, but what has he done? The Liberal members of the Public Accounts Commitee were called into the Prime Minister's Office before it began to hold hearings on this and given their marching orders. They did everything they could to slow down the testimony, throwing one procedural argument after another onto the table. They lobbed softball questions at the important witnesses, and opposed calling others. Several members repeatedly talked about how the AG was exagerrating, and how they didn't believe there was really anything there. They called back the AG and others to waste time, and then shut down the commitee early. This is not my idea of getting to the bottom of things.

There's something to what you say, but let me ask you: What do you think Chretien would have done

And do you really buy his claim he knew nothing? This was the most powerful finance minister in history, the number 1 minister in Chretien's cabinet for all those years, the guy with a vast network of contacts and loyalists throughout the Liberal Party, and he didn't know what was going on in his own province? Hell, even the BQ knew, and were making loud noises about it.

I think he looked the other way. But again, there was only so much he could do without resigning the party completely. Chretien was the leader, and this was how he operated.

I think Martin knew all about it, and is lieing when he says otherwise.

I think he had his lawyer's hat on there. What constitutes "knowing", anyway. We all "know" what's going on, but do we actually know the facts ?

If he had any brains at all, he kept at arms length from all of the nastiness, knowing that it would come back to him later.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The Liberals and NDP, ... started this campaign in the gutter, and have since sunk into the sewers with their filthy, fearmongering, hatemongering attacks on the Conservatives.

???

Examples?

[Cartman]

I think Commonsense is gonna vote Liberal this time...he he...hehehehe...he he

[Bro]

There were no votes on any real issues except by the conservatives.

Southwestern Ontario still have their heads up their ass,with their hand stuck out to collect Liberal handouts.

Quebec has their hand out,although they say the Bloc won because they can't be bought by the liberals,but where has all the money sent there gone.

I haven't followed the maritimes,but from what I can gather,Harper told them he would let them control their own resouces,harder work than collecting an allowance from the liberals,I guess.

[takeanumber]

Takeanumber will be off to San Fransisco, of course, where he'll be much happier.

I don't like the traffic.

I'd be much happier if Calgary was it's own province.

But meh. Don't get me started on Section 92/93/94/95/96.

Sigh.

[Argus]

Ever ask how he bought the steam ship company?

Got it for a song off of Power Corp.

How did he get the job at Power Corp?

His dad's buddy gave it to him.

Self made man? Or pig in the trough?

Has anyone paused to think how much Paul Martin resembles George Bush Jr? I know all those libs and ndpers love to compare Harper to Bush, but consider;

Both Martin and Bush Jr were born to politicaly powerful fathers, neither especially rich. Both were known as party guys in college. Both emerged into a very tidy job provided by Dad's friends, and both were sold lucrative, money making businesses for very, very little - by Dad's friends. Both became multi-millionaires because of that, and both had very helful support from Dad's friends when they ran for high office. Both won that office using attack ads and smear campaigns. Both describe themselves as very religious. Neither is known as particularlyhonest.

[takeanumber]

Ever notice how many businessmen inherited everything they own?

Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto are filled to the brim with such people.

The difference in Canada, as opposed to the United States, is something called Social Mobility.

It's a concept that most people who inherit everything and then pompously claim that they 'earned' it -- don't like very much.

But it's the main reason why most Canadians came to this country...social mobility.

And it's a principle that I defend, in SPITE of Conservative and Liberal attempts to shut it down.

(Yes, I'm talking about you, Argus.)