Jack Layton

[maplesyrup]

Canada's NDP Leader Layton Pushes for `Central Role' After Vote

June 24 (Bloomberg) -- Jack Layton, leader of Canada's socialist New Democratic Party, makes five campaign stops in three provinces today, amid a last push to secure enough votes in the June 28 election to force the main parties to work with him in Parliament.

The NDP's 8.5 percent support from the 2000 election has doubled under Layton, a former Toronto city councilor and university professor who became leader last year. Because neither of the frontrunners, the governing Liberals of Prime Minister Paul Martin and Stephen Harper's Conservatives, have the backing to control Parliament, Layton may be able to broker his party's votes for a say on legislation.

[maplesyrup]

Layton promises EI boost for seasonal workers

This is a great idea, and long overdue.

[Hjalmar]

Layton promises EI boost for seasonal workers

This is a great idea, and long overdue.

It's called "buying votes" with taxpayers money.

[noelandmero]

which happens to be standard NDP operating procedure.

[maplesyrup]

What do you think the purpose of EI is?

[Stoker]

What do you think the purpose of EI is?

To act as a safety net for working Canadians, not for beer money for college students and Fisherman.....

[Reverend Blair]

Sorry Stoker, but I know quite a few seasonal workers. That happens in a climate that varies as muchas ours does. They pay into EI, and they collect the benefits.

Those benefits are not beer money, they go to pay mortgages, buy food, and so on. When work is available, these guys do go out and work and they work damned hard.

[moon]

Sorry Stoker, but I know quite a few seasonal workers. That happens in a climate that varies as muchas ours does. They pay into EI, and they collect the benefits.

Those benefits are not beer money, they go to pay mortgages, buy food, and so on. When work is available, these guys do go out and work and they work damned hard.

And the reason that they don't go out and get jobs when their seasonal ones are done instead of sponge off the government is?

[Stoker]

Sorry Stoker, but I know quite a few seasonal workers. That happens in a climate that varies as muchas ours does. They pay into EI, and they collect the benefits.

Those benefits are not beer money, they go to pay mortgages, buy food, and so on. When work is available, these guys do go out and work and they work damned hard.

Exactly, just like fisherman.........must be nice, work half the year then collect the dole and sit at home or work for cash under the table...........

I got a better idea, how about seasonal workers, hell any worker, can check a box on their income tax form, and not pay into EI, BUT they can't collect it either. This way the Fishermen, Mushroom and berry pickers and tree planters can keep their EI contriubtion and when their work runs out, they can either sleep in a cardboard box or get a frigging job the last year round........

[Reverend Blair]

Most seasonal workers do try to work in the winter, at least the ones I know. There aren't as many jobs in the winter though and those that there are depend a lot on weather conditions.

Most of the seasonal worker I know operate heavy equipment. They did betterthan most years this year because we had a lot of snow. That is not guaranteed work though...they have no way of knowing if it's going to snow much or not when autumn rolls around.

On the other hand you'd look pretty silly if there was nobody to pour your concrete, pave your driveways, landscape your yard, fix your streets, mow your grass etc. We need the people who do the seasonal work and our climate is not their fault.

Perhaps their employers should pay them all year around, even when they can't work due to weather? The employers could make up the extra expense by charging double what they do now. The seasonal workers would have more money to spend when they weren't working in the winter, driving the economy more.

Of course you really don't want to pay double what you are now for all your seasonal needs, do you?

[playfullfellow]

Of course you really don't want to pay double what you are now for all your seasonal needs, do you?

Nope this wouldn't work, seasonal workers tend to get paid pretty good money now as it is, well aside from any of the agricultural workers. I think that EI should be a true insurance type program, the more you use it, the higher the percentage you pay, the less you use it, the less you pay. Since I have been paying into the program for over 18 years and never collected a cent, I feel I should not have to pay the same as a person who has gone onto EI every year for the past 18 years.

Increasing payouts to seasonal workers does nothing to stimulate the economy. As Rev.Blair pointed out there are decent people on the dole but there are a lot of people on it who will never change because they like sitting around all winter watching hockey.

I also wonder of the people who work a whole career wihtout using EI once, why do they not get a return for their hard work and ambition? Lets face it, these are the people are most pissed off about the whole system. Say you work your whole career without usinh EI, why not get a 30 percent or so return on your money the day you retire? If we all had some kind of incentive like that, maybe EI wouldn't get used as much? Just a thought.

[Argus]

Layton promises EI boost for seasonal workers

This is a great idea, and long overdue.

I have a better idea. Take seasonal workers off UI entirely. They, for the most part, have no business collecting. UI has become a big welfare pot for these people, and screw up local economies.

Fishing. There are far too many fishermen. Why? Because of UI. UI makes it possible for peple to work a month or two and then collect the rest of the year. If there wasn't UI there'd be a helluva lot fewer fishermen.

Construction workers? You know why a labourer with no skills or experience gets $20hr? Because he's expected to make that money last. Construction jobs get waaaayyy too much money for the sole reason that it IS a seasonal job and people can't work in the winter. Their high salaries are to compensate for that. Instead, now, they collect UIC the rest of the year.

If you can't make your summer job money stretch to the rest of the year then GET ANOTHER JOB - or go on welfare.

UIC is supposed to be for unexpected, temporary periods of unemployment.

[Hjalmar]

I also wonder of the people who work a whole career wihtout using EI once, why do they not get a return for their hard work and ambition? Lets face it, these are the people are most pissed off about the whole system. Say you work your whole career without usinh EI, why not get a 30 percent or so return on your money the day you retire? If we all had some kind of incentive like that, maybe EI wouldn't get used as much? Just a thought. 

Excellent point. EI has become nothing but a welfare program and creates an incentive for people not to work. Why would any country pay people for doing nothing? If EI in Canada has become so sacred then they should change the premium structure so as to create incentives for good work records. People that collect EI every year should pay perhaps 5 times the base rate. People that collect it every 5 years could pay the base rate and people that haven't made a claim for 10 years would pay 10% of the base rate. This is how you create incentives for good work records and you also become a more attractive prospective employee as employers pay part of this monthly premium. Indeed, I think once a person has paid into the EI fund for 10 years without a claim they should have a choice in opting out of the plan altogether.

Insurance rates are based on the element of risk. How can they call this plan Employment Insurance when it is not an insurance plan at all but rather a form of welfare?

[August1991]

Shortly after his election in 1984, Mulroney appointed a commission specifically to change UIC. Many of the proposed changes are repeated in this thread.

The commission report went nowhere and Mulroney decided to focus his efforts elsewhere.

EI is a mess and needs a serious overhaul. But it's also a political hornets nest. Many, many people like those cheques and would be scared by the word "change".

[Michael Hardner]

I agree with August, Hjalmar and Argus for the most part. But any changes need to be phased out over time to give local economies and individuals time to adjust.

One of Paul Martin's successes was in an overhaul of EI that occurred in the 1990s. I expect that another one might happen if he gets another term.

[Reverend Blair]

Nope this wouldn't work, seasonal workers tend to get paid pretty good money now as it is, well aside from any of the agricultural workers.

Most of the "unskilled" workers get less than $10.00/hour. I don't know if that's "pretty good money" where you come from, but it wouldn't pay my bills.

You know why a labourer with no skills or experience gets $20hr? Because he's expected to make that money last.

First of all nobody without skills or experience gets that in the construction industry around here. That's the kind of wage a heavy equipment operator might expect, or a skilled carpenter.

Second of all, how long would you survive in an "unskilled" labour job, Argus? I can tell you that if had your ass tied to a shovel on a crew I was running, you'd be in tears by noon of your first day and I've always been generous about time for leaning on shovels.

Let me make it clear. I would pay you ten dollars an hour, expect you to know at least enough to know what questions to ask, and if I ever saw you not sweating I'd rip your head off. Friday afternoon there'd be a free beer or two. When I was running my reno business, I was considered a softy because I paid so much and let the guys get away with so much.

Tell me again how labourers are just lazy bastards who lean on their shovels and get paid too much. I've been the labourer and the boss. I've worked white collar and blue. I know career civil servants who belong to the union. I was raised by civil servants who were one step above the union, You know who the biggest dog-f**kers are? Men in suits and ties who work for big corporations.

[Big Blue Machine]

Jack Layton seems like a nice guy, but he seems over-confident. During the debates, he was annoying and rude. His performance in the debate reminds me of Lyn McLeod (Ontario Liberal leader). She was aggressive and interupting answers. And the public didn't like that. And Mike Harris won a huge majority.

[Reverend Blair]

...and Ontario suffered deeply because they went for Harris.

[playfullfellow]

Most of the "unskilled" workers get less than $10.00/hour. I don't know if that's "pretty good money" where you come from, but it wouldn't pay my bills.

I think argus was refering to Alberta on those wages, they are a bit on the high side by about 5 bucks an hour but any person who owns a hammer and tool belt can make 13-16 bucks an hour in Northern Alberta.

I am also in construction, mainly reno work, and we go year round. Most of the companies I know also go year round, yes winters are slower but they manage to get about 2/3 of their reugalr hours. I also know a lot of guys that swap trades for the winter. They go work the patch or go trucking for the winter.

With the booming economy of Alberta, there really isn't a reason to be on EI every winter. I do not agree with doing away with EI for what we suggest is seasonal workers. Theoretically, I have been what has been classified as a seasonal worker for over 18 years and never collected EI. My parents are the same as are a lot of other people I know. I think a high usage/higher premium system would quell some of the arguments.

[playfullfellow]

Most of the "unskilled" workers get less than $10.00/hour. I don't know if that's "pretty good money" where you come from, but it wouldn't pay my bills.

I think argus was refering to Alberta on those wages, they are a bit on the high side by about 5 bucks an hour but any person who owns a hammer and tool belt can make 13-16 bucks an hour in Northern Alberta.

I am also in construction, mainly reno work, and we go year round. Most of the companies I know also go year round, yes winters are slower but they manage to get about 2/3 of their reugalr hours. I also know a lot of guys that swap trades for the winter. They go work the patch or go trucking for the winter.

With the booming economy of Alberta, there really isn't a reason to be on EI every winter. I do not agree with doing away with EI for what we suggest is seasonal workers. Theoretically, I have been what has been classified as a seasonal worker for over 18 years and never collected EI. My parents are the same as are a lot of other people I know. I think a high usage/higher premium system would quell some of the arguments.

If you can't make your summer job money stretch to the rest of the year then GET ANOTHER JOB - or go on welfare.

Now this statement is kind of confusing, what is the difference between using EI or welfare, well aside from the fact that seasonal workers at least pay taxes and EI premiums, wefare recipiants don't. Where do we get the better returns?

[Reverend Blair]

I do not live in Alberta. We do not have a "patch" to go to in the off season here. We have some snow plows and maybe you can get a gig bouncing. It's 20 below for six months.

Do you guys even look up enough to realise that the world is a wide place? Most of us do not have to exist on your narrow reality, even those of us who work all year around. I know a lot of people on pogey out ther in the "patch" too. I grew up in Saskatchewan. I've seen what the packing plants in Brookes do to people too. Funny, I know 70 year old men who were butchers all their lives and never had to give up their hands...or their souls.

There is a little more to life than money, boys. Sit out there in Ralphland and tell me how rich you are though...how sour gas and strip mines make you feel like men.

[maplesyrup]

Layton predicts record seat total

SAULT STE. MARIE, Ont. (CP) - In the midst of an Ontario blitz designed to create momentum, Jack Layton received two unusual endorsements today from a U.S. presidential candidate and disgruntled Liberal organizers.

As the New Democratic leader took off from Timmins this morning, independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader issued an open letter suggesting Canadians vote NDP to stop Conservatives from forming government.

As he touched down in Sault Ste. Marie, Layton bounded off the plane to news that senior Liberals in the Hamilton riding of former cabinet minister Sheila Copps are supporting the NDP.

"A Liberal executive has rejected Mr. Martin's proposal that they should vote Liberal to stop (Stephen) Harper," Layton said during today's nine-city whistle-stop tour. His handlers dubbed the voyage "Super Friday."

Looks like Jack is really on a roll these last few days of the campaign.

I think the New Democrats with Jack Layton at the helm are going to exceed their wildest expectations.

[caesar]

EI is a ripoff. It means low income earners cannot quit a job when an employer refuses to pay adequately or give raises. The government is using this money for other reasons. Higher income workers have to pay into this system but must repay most of any money they collect.

Employers know that there is no safety net if you quit; meanwhile it is difficult to look for a job while you are employed. While it needed to be tightened up to quit abuses; leaving no just reasons available for quitting is very employer enabling for refusing raises to keep up with the cost of living. It is widening the gap between the poor and wealthy.

[caesar]

Ralph Nader should get out of politics himself. He was responsible for letting Bush getting elected last time. This election; he will again drain votes from the democrats.

Voring NDP; will not help in preventing the Conservatives from winning the election; it will probably take votes away from the Liberals. However; the NDP is a more legititmate party than Ralph Nader; If you believe in their policies; you should give them your vote. The NDP are not a credible party for winning the election this round;but if they pick up more seats this election; they will be a much more credible choice in the following election in a few months.

[playfullfellow]

Do you guys even look up enough to realise that the world is a wide place? Most of us do not have to exist on your narrow reality, even those of us who work all year around.

I dont just look it up, I have been to many different places and seen many different ways of doing things. I also communicate with people like yourself to get a perspective of what things are like else where. Yes, we do struggle at times in Alberta too, we also have 6 months of cold weather here. Haven't sold my soul to any corporate gurus myself, I work hard and honest 6, 7 days a week if needed. Alberta has its problems, so does every other area of Canada, each one of them unique to each area. I work with people from one side of Canada to another and I love to listen to their individual views about each region. I learn more and get a broader view of what happens. Just as an example, I know most newfies (well, the ones that have come west) hate the current system, they don't want to be dependant on the government for handouts. I don't know very many people from Manitoba so I enjoy reading your posts Rev so I can better understanding of where you are coming from. Don't label all Albertans as self-centered rednecks who don't care what happens outside our little world.