Poll shows increasing voter skepticism about Harper government

Scotty · March 26, 2011

When you say drunk do you mean drunk like Sir John A MacDonald or drunk like George W Bush.Or Boris Yeltzin drunk?

I mean drunk like those two morons at Walkerton.

Jack Weber · March 26, 2011

I mean drunk like those two morons at Walkerton.

You mean the guys the Harris government put in place because they came cheap and because the Tories in Ontario wanted to make the Ministry of the Environment more ,"business friendly"?

Oh look!!!

Look at the Harris hacks in key portfolio positions in Harpers cabinet!!!

Scotty · March 26, 2011

You mean the guys the Harris government put in place because they came cheap and because the Tories in Ontario wanted to make the Ministry of the Environment more ,"business friendly"?

Oh look!!!

Look at the Harris hacks in key portfolio positions in Harpers cabinet!!!

As I recall, it was the municipality of Walkerton who hired them, because they were friends and relatives of the mayor, I believe.

Chippewa · March 26, 2011

Whats drunken about the whole situation is that about 116 First Nations don't have clean water to drink from. This would be equivalant to 116 walkerton's across Canada. Would Canada ever allow 116 white towns full of immigrants have this type of water to drink daily. Think Not, because if one place like Walkerton pops up, its the end of the world for Canada because they can't provide clean drinking water to First Nations communities.

Then when Canada starts with Clean water on First Nations, maybe they can work on all of the mass unmarked graves and pull out the racketeering laws against the Church for committing genocide in Canada.

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3748

This is corruption at its highest levels, with Prime Ministers, Popes, and all Churches hands in the cookie jars. They have used Canadian Law and immigrants who vote on it, to make sure that corporations get everything. The United Nations is a joke, they don't care about anything, and is about as corrupt as the wars they envoke.

Scotty · March 26, 2011

Whats drunken about the whole situation is that about 116 First Nations don't have clean water to drink from. This would be equivalant to 116 walkerton's across Canada. Would Canada ever allow 116 white towns full of immigrants have this type of water to drink daily. Think Not, because if one place like Walkerton pops up, its the end of the world for Canada because they can't provide clean drinking water to First Nations communities.

Although Canadian taxpayers foot almost the entire bill, natives own and operate their own water facilities. The Office of the Auditor General of Canada explained the areas of native responsibility just this September in its Report of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons. "First Nations are responsible for the construction, upgrade and day-to-day management of water systems." The federal government funds all design and construction costs, and 80% of the operating costs, a mere 20% expected to come from user fees. The federal government entirely funds the sampling and testing of water.

Yet although the safety of their water system is predominantly within native control, native leaders hire incompetents to run their plants – the Auditor General's report found most lack the needed knowledge and skill, and only 10% of operators met provincial certification requirements. Although federal guidelines call for testing that averages at least once a week, the report found that "regular tests of drinking water are not carried out in most First Nations. . . . In some cases, First Nations failed to carry out water tests for periods as long as seven months."

You'd think with band Councillors and chiefs making more money than premiers or the prime minister they'd at least look after little things like water.

Jack Weber · March 26, 2011

As I recall, it was the municipality of Walkerton who hired them, because they were friends and relatives of the mayor, I believe.

It would'nt have happened that way if the Harris government had'nt made the cuts they did to the MoE to make it "business friendly"...

Chippewa · March 26, 2011

Water problems Natives fault

The link you showed is about a reserve that was effected from a hydro dam. That place flooded twice, and the government would not relocate them after the flood plains evened out. Basically, this community is a disaster area. I wouldn't use this as an example of corruption.

The current corruption goes as follows. This is happening to this date. Some, not all First Nations governments own Trust Funds. And in these trust funds are millions of dollars, and what happens due to nepotism, is these "Band Councils", will create financial groups and hire themselves, sign non-disclosure agreements so that these companies can't be disclosed to the public that owns these Trust Funds, and these Financial Groups will create big capital projects, and pay themselves millions of dollars, at the expense of people who own these trust funds without the consent of the people.

There is no system set up, or even Canada could care less about it, because it has nothing to do with them. even though contracts were signed, and clauses of the Trust Agreements are signed and voted on by the community.

I could only imagine what it would be like if the city of Toronto tried this with there public money, or trust funds if they owned one.

Scotty · March 26, 2011

The link you showed is about a reserve that was effected from a hydro dam. That place flooded twice, and the government would not relocate them after the flood plains evened out.

The government build a dyke to keep them from being flooded again.

And natives operate the water treatment plants on all reserves. They just don't, for the most part, operate them very well.

The current corruption goes as follows. This is happening to this date. Some, not all First Nations governments own Trust Funds. And in these trust funds are millions of dollars, and what happens due to nepotism, is these "Band Councils", will create financial groups and hire themselves, sign non-disclosure agreements so that these companies can't be disclosed to the public that owns these Trust Funds, and these Financial Groups will create big capital projects, and pay themselves millions of dollars, at the expense of people who own these trust funds without the consent of the people.

Then I would suppose the answer would be for natives to address the corruption of their local leadership.

Scotty · March 26, 2011

It would'nt have happened that way if the Harris government had'nt made the cuts they did to the MoE to make it "business friendly"...

That's one take on it. Another is it wouldn't have happened if the idiot Mayor of Walkerton had done his job instead of hiring his idiot brother in law to run their water treatment plant.

Chippewa · March 26, 2011

Although Canadian taxpayers foot almost the entire bill, natives own and operate their own water facilities. The Office of the Auditor General of Canada explained the areas of native responsibility just this September in its Report of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons. "First Nations are responsible for the construction, upgrade and day-to-day management of water systems." The federal government funds all design and construction costs, and 80% of the operating costs, a mere 20% expected to come from user fees. The federal government entirely funds the sampling and testing of water.

Yet although the safety of their water system is predominantly within native control, native leaders hire incompetents to run their plants the Auditor General's report found most lack the needed knowledge and skill, and only 10% of operators met provincial certification requirements. Although federal guidelines call for testing that averages at least once a week, the report found that "regular tests of drinking water are not carried out in most First Nations. . . . In some cases, First Nations failed to carry out water tests for periods as long as seven months."

You'd think with band Councillors and chiefs making more money than premiers or the prime minister they'd at least look after little things like water.

you can quote policy all day, it doesnt mean a thing, because they still won't cover the bill. Just go to a national assembly of First Nations when this topic comes up. The Prime Minister even said it is a problem in Canada, and over about the last 9 years or so, the number of communities without clean water went from 122 communities to 116. So I guess with this type of progress, First Nations can expect clean water in the year 2144.

If I created a company saying I was going to train and build water treatment plants across Canada, Canada would laugh me and my company out of the room, because that would mean, jobs, and a little bit of economy, which Canada doesn't want from First Nations. Its the same situation as in Australia and the Aboriginees there with the "Stolen Generations".

Its more important to send people to war, instead of getting clean water. The government will subsidize the cost of booze to a northern community, but not subsidize the cost of food. Its cheaper to buy a 40 of Rum or Whiskey, then it is to buy a bag of milk, especially near First Nations Communities.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Chippewa

nicky10013 · March 26, 2011

Polls are notoriously unreliable.

Except when they're at 43% for the CPC.

To me, all the polls are ass backwards. I think there will be a LOT of volatility in the very basic polls of who people support in terms of the party, but all the issues polling to see where Canadians are in terms of issues all split Liberal. Most people thought the big issue would be the economy but in the Nanos poll it came up health care, retirement and jobs which are planks of the Liberal platform. With this, there's hope that they could draw in really tight. Whether they gain enough seats to win even a 1 seat minority is very hard to say and would be very hard to accomplish, but I stand by my prediction of at the very least a weakened CPC minority.

Harry · March 26, 2011

Trust is now becoming a bigger problem for Harper. I imagine Canadians want their leaders to be above bord and honest with them.

Coalition vs alliance: One was good enough for Ignatieff, the other for Harper
Harper himself appeared to see nothing wrong with coalitions in 2004, when he was official Opposition leader contemplating the possible defeat of Paul Martin's minority Liberal government.

Speaking on behalf of the NDP and Bloc with whom he'd been in "close consultation," Harper wrote the governor general a letter advising against automatically calling an election should the Martin government fall. He noted that constitutional practice dictates that opposition leaders be consulted and all options be considered.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/coalition-vs-alliance-one-was-good-enough-for-ignatieff-the-other-for-harper-118685624.html

Edited March 26, 2011 by Harry

Scotty · March 26, 2011

you can quote policy all day, it doesnt mean a thing, because they still won't cover the bill. Just go to a national assembly of First Nations when this topic comes up. The Prime Minister even said it is a problem in Canada, and over about the last 9 years or so, the number of communities without clean water went from 122 communities to 116. So I guess with this type of progress, First Nations can expect clean water in the year 2144.

Oh we could get it faster than that. All we'd have to do is have the federal government take over all those water treatment plants and put non-natives in to run them.

Saipan · March 26, 2011

It would'nt have happened that way if the Harris government had'nt made the cuts they did to the MoE to make it "business friendly"...

They didn't cut enough. The perp who faked water test still had lot of money for booze. He should have been in jail.

WWWTT · March 26, 2011

I mean drunk like those two morons at Walkerton.

Do they have official native status?

WWWTT

Wild Bill · March 26, 2011

It would'nt have happened that way if the Harris government had'nt made the cuts they did to the MoE to make it "business friendly"...

Sorry Jack, but you swallowed the McGuinty Kool-aid on this one!

Do a bit of googling and you'll find that Stan and his relation were hired years before Harris came to office and were f**kups practically from day one! You can cite MoE cuts all you like but it all came down to the fact that those two clowns drank all day and didn't do their jobs! Harris didn't put a gun to their heads and FORCE them to just falsify the tests! Just because you don't like Harris doesn't mean you can blame anything you pull out of your butt on him! How about tsunamis?

Those two should have been hung!

Edited March 26, 2011 by Wild Bill

WWWTT · March 26, 2011

Sorry Jack, but you swallowed the McGuinty Kool-aid on this one!

Do a bit of googling and you'll find that Stan and his relation were hired years before Harris came to office and were f**kups practically from day one! You can cite MoE cuts all you like but it all came down to the fact that those two clowns drank all day and didn't do their jobs! Harris didn't put a gun to their heads and FORCE them to just falsify the tests! Just because you don't like Harris doesn't mean you can blame anything you pull out of your butt on him! How about tsunamis?

Those two should have been hung!

Actually Bill I have some experience in this field and you better back off buddy!

I hold a Ontario Water Works liscence approved to test backflow preventers and determine levels of hazard and this case is very involved.

Lots of blame to go around here and Harris does not have clean hands.

I am not getting any more involved in this one.

WWWTT

William Ashley · March 26, 2011

Oh we could get it faster than that. All we'd have to do is have the federal government take over all those water treatment plants and put non-natives in to run them.

Well maybe they should train the people to run the plants... no need to get non natives.. how about the government implement a training program for people to run their water treatment plants, and have a person apprentice the person on site until they were competent.

Plants honestly can't be difficult to run - online training programs should be available, and the government shouldn't let anyone who can't pass certification run the thing. It is a public health issue. (thus PUBLIC SAFETY)

It is gross negligence on the part of the federal government not to insure safe drinking water for any population centre in Canada.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/reportlinker-adds-nanotechnology-in-water-treatment-118567624.html

Edited March 26, 2011 by William Ashley

Saipan · March 26, 2011

Lots of blame to go around here and Harris does not have clean hands.

Was he testing the Walkerton water, or were it the local morons?

Wasn't the Sponsorgate right under Chretien's nose?

Chippewa · March 26, 2011

Oh we could get it faster than that. All we'd have to do is have the federal government take over all those water treatment plants and put non-natives in to run them.

That means building 116 water treatment plants. Im all for anybody giving these people jobs if it means clean water. Dirty water is the biggest killer in the world to this date.

I don't think you understand. 116 Water Treatment Plants are not built, so it doesn't matter who would work there if no building, or money is not available.

My reserve, all that works here is non-natives, they build the roads, houses, and corporate complexes. Training money is not available to train first Nations workers at a new job. They use to do it in the 90's when the liberal government was switched around, but the government wants Canada to think that First Nations are some sort of economic problem as oppose to being a bright spot in a solution. Canada wants the people to think that First Nations are some sort of welfare problem, with no economic hope. So far they are succeeding because of the ghetto's or indian reserves that have been set up, have achieved just that.

First Nations own less then 1% of the land, which means they can't farm, can't mine, or alot of other economic opportunities that would normally be available. Even Australia had the balls to give back the aboriginees 20% of there land back, and Canada is fighting with First Nations to keep them under 1% total ownership under the new Kangaroo Court Systems, and Laws.

Scotty · March 26, 2011

Well maybe they should train the people to run the plants... no need to get non natives.. how about the government implement a training program for people to run their water treatment plants, and have a person apprentice the person on site until they were competent.

How about those high paid native Councillors and chiefs pay a little attention to their freaking jobs, hire people who aren't idiots, and get them trained? Is that too much to ask of natives?

It is gross negligence on the part of the federal government not to insure safe drinking water for any population centre in Canada.

Why? It's not their jobs! It's the job of municipalities. Do you think the federal government has any real input into how the water treatment plants in say Ottawa is operated, or who works there, or how they're trained?

Smallc · March 26, 2011

I don't think you understand. 116 Water Treatment Plants are not built, so it doesn't matter who would work there if no building, or money is not available.

The initial plants do not need to be of the highest level of sophistication. A simple chlorination facility will go a long way to fixing the problem. Over time, better plants can be built (a plant for several hundred people costs in the range of $2M). There are solutions to the problem.

Scotty · March 26, 2011

That means building 116 water treatment plants. Im all for anybody giving these people jobs if it means clean water. Dirty water is the biggest killer in the world to this date.

I don't think you understand. 116 Water Treatment Plants are not built, so it doesn't matter who would work there if no building, or money is not available.

I don't have the necessary knowledge to dispute what you write above. All I do know, and that from doing some brief research, is that there are a lot of water filtration plants on native reserves, and that they're operated, very poorly and irresponsibly, by local government, local government which is very highly paid.

My reserve, all that works here is non-natives, they build the roads, houses, and corporate complexes. Training money is not available to train first Nations workers at a new job.

And how much money are your chief and councilors making? Look, I don't mean to seem unsympathetic. I'm not. It's just that you came into this site with a lot of stupid insulting stuff, and like others I didn't take you very seriously because of that. The problem of natives and reserves is an ongoing tragedy. Unfortunately, there are a collection of interests involved here that are quite happy to see it remain as it is. And among those interests are many of the national native chiefs and their councils who appear to be profiting quite handsomely off the current situation.

From what I can see, many native reserves are simply not economically viable. That's not a racial thing. You take a thousand white people and plunk them down in the bush and what the hell are they going to do there? I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that just giving money to natives does not seem to be a solution, and even if it was, I don't think Canadian taxpayers are prepared to fork out the kind of money all the natives have demanded, which probably goes up to something like a trillion dollars. The best thing for natives to do is join the twenty first century and come and live in the cities.