trophy photos with dead civilians

[bud]

Moments before the picturewas taken in January last year, the unsuspecting victim had been waved over by a group of US soldiers who had driven to his village in Kandahar province in one of their armoured Stryker tanks.

According to testimony collected by Der Spiegel magazine the boy had, as a matter of routine, lifted up his shirt to reveal that he was not hiding a suicide bomb vest.

That was the moment Morlock, according to a pre-arranged plan, threw a grenade at the boy that exploded while other members of the rogue group who called themselves the "kill team" opened fire.

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my immediate reaction after seeing this article was, how often does something like this happen?

can this be blamed on only a small group of soldiers or is this sort of despicable behaviour more rampant?

some use moral authority to separate 'us' from 'them'. some use examples like beheadings to illustrate how we're different than 'they' are. i wonder what those people have to say after this or after revelations at abu ghraib.

here is a little more:

Despite being a setback in the propaganda war between the western coalition and its insurgent enemies, Nato will be relieved that for the time being only a tiny sample of a total collection of roughly 4,000 images and video clips have found their way into the public domain.

4000 images taken by the same group or by different groups?

The publication of the photos will also mark the ultimate disgrace of the group of young US soldiers, who are currently facing military justice for killing innocent civilians for sport and mutilating their bodies by cutting off fingers and ripping out teeth to keep as trophies

[SF/PF]

The publication of the photos will also mark the ultimate disgrace of the group of young US soldiers, who are currently facing military justice for killing innocent civilians for sport and mutilating their bodies by cutting off fingers and ripping out teeth to keep as trophies

So was this act "barbaric" or "totally unacceptable?"

Sickening.

[GostHacked]

And people though Abu Garib was a disgusting fiasco.

[Shady]

Looks like Obama has his own Abu Ghraib situation.

[Jonsa]

While disgusting and reprehensible, why is anyone surprised?

First, army psychological screening is not perfect.

Second, soldiers are trained to kill.

Third, some humans develop a taste for killing

Fourth, soldiers are conditioned to dehumanize the enemy.

Fifth, soldiers see nasty nasty things that can and do traumatize them.

Sixth, unit cohesion creates an "infectious" environment

Seventh, ain't never been a war where this kind of shit didn't go down.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, when it is done officially on a larger scale, we call it "Bomb Damage Assessment".

[Shady]

While disgusting and reprehensible, why is anyone surprised?

First, army psychological screening is not perfect.

Second, soldiers are trained to kill.

Third, some humans develop a taste for killing

Fourth, soldiers are conditioned to dehumanize the enemy.

Fifth, soldiers see nasty nasty things that can and do traumatize them.

Sixth, unit cohesion creates an "infectious" environment

Seventh, ain't never been a war where this kind of shit didn't go down.

I agree. But I didn't see that being applied in the case of Abu Ghraib. However, I did see people asking for President Bush and/or the Secretary of Defense to resign because of it. It's interesting how these double standards work isn't it?

[Michael Hardner]

However, I did see people asking for President Bush and/or the Secretary of Defense to resign because of it.

You should probably find some examples on here of MLWers who did that. It shouldn't be hard, and I think it would be gratifying to you - as well as to me as I could watch a discussion between two people about their own opinions, rather than another posts that just shakes its fist at 'liberals'...

[Shady]

You should probably find some examples on here of MLWers who did that. It shouldn't be hard, and I think it would be gratifying to you - as well as to me as I could watch a discussion between two people about their own opinions, rather than another posts that just shakes its fist at 'liberals'...

I was referring to the media, but it probably also applies in this forum as well. And your idea is a good one. Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts? Where's the New York Times and the Washington Post? Where's CBC? Just wondering.

[GostHacked]

I was referring to the media, but it probably also applies in this forum as well. And your idea is a good one. Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts? Where's the New York Times and the Washington Post? Where's CBC? Just wondering.

This is more to the point of the mainstream media filtering out information. That is your 'why'.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was referring to the media, but it probably also applies in this forum as well. And your idea is a good one. Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts? Where's the New York Times and the Washington Post? Where's CBC? Just wondering.

Yes...it's a fair and astute observation, regardless of the specific behaviour by individual troops. I suspect the wait will be very long.

[Guest American Woman]

I was referring to the media, but it probably also applies in this forum as well. And your idea is a good one. Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts? Where's the New York Times and the Washington Post? Where's CBC? Just wondering.

It's more than a few days old. I remember reading about this last year. Here's a link: link

Here's a thread about it: link

Edited March 24, 2011 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Here's a thread about it: link

Ah yes...great fun...thanks for finding this!

Weren't convictions handed down yesterday on a guilty plea bargain?

[Guest American Woman]

Ah yes...great fun...thanks for finding this!

Weren't convictions handed down yesterday on a guilty plea bargain?

Here's a link: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/jeremy_n_morlock/index.html

[guyser]

I was referring to the media, but it probably also applies in this forum as well. And your idea is a good one. Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts? Where's the New York Times and the Washington Post? Where's CBC? Just wondering.

Does ABC count? They reported it

Washington Post count? Does it embarass you they reported it on Sunday March 20 th ?

I think I've figured it out, you and your ilk who comment "where is the MSM" say that to hide the fact you either cant read (likely) or have lousy Google abilities.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I think I've figured it out, you and your ilk who comment "where is the MSM" say that to hide the fact you either cant read (likely) or have lousy Google abilities.

No, I think the missing links are passionate media demands for resignations from the Obama administration.

[guyser]

No, I think the missing links are passionate media demands for resignations from the Obama administration.

Shady had moved on to complaining about the media not reporting it.

Shady said...

Anyways, this story is a few days old, and I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to report on it. Where's cable news? Where's the network evening news casts?

[bush_cheney2004]

Shady had moved on to complaining about the media not reporting it.

Shady said...

....but not like Abu Ghraib...that was my understanding of the context. Where is the very upset Keith Obermann...then or now....oh yea...he was fired!

[ToadBrother]

The publication of the photos will also mark the ultimate disgrace of the group of young US soldiers, who are currently facing military justice for killing innocent civilians for sport and mutilating their bodies by cutting off fingers and ripping out teeth to keep as trophies

You don't want to know what the Greeks did to their slain enemies...

[GostHacked]

You don't want to know what the Greeks did to their slain enemies...

I'd prefer to have those pictures all over the front page news, this way people can see exactly what is happening.

[bud]

It's more than a few days old. I remember reading about this last year. Here's a link: link

Here's a thread about it: link

thanks

[bush_cheney2004]

You don't want to know what the Greeks did to their slain enemies...

...or what the Lakota, Cheyenne, and Arapaho did to theirs!

[Guest American Woman]

I'd prefer to have those pictures all over the front page news, this way people can see exactly what is happening.

Exactly what "is happening?"

[GostHacked]

Exactly what "is happening?"

Well, you can look at it the way that the Bush Admin had axed the photos of the Old Glory draped coffins arriving in the US holding the bodies of fallen soldiers. Out of sight out of mind. People wanted to see those pictures to understand the mounting death tolls of the soldiers. IN another way it honours those who have fallen by showing the citizens who is dying for their freedom. The Bush Admin wanted to save face and say the war was being won by hiding the coffins from the media and the public.

It does the same thing here. We don't see the bodies or these trophies these soldiers took, because that would put a stain on the military and the current operation. In order for the public to continue to support the troops, this kind of thing can't see the light of day. The soldiers are supposed to be there to protect these people, to protect their freedom and help them. But in this case, we have a few soldiers who seem to be doing this for their own sick pleasure. Those soldiers need to be called out when it happens.

It's not right for any soldier to partake in this kind of activity. But maybe we should just drop the pretense or pretext of helping these people. Since as time goes on, it is more about helping western interests than freeing any people.

Not sure if I explained myself properly here.

Last year I caught up with an old high school friend (and a looong time close friend as well) He had done two tours in Bosnia, and two in Afghanistan. .. The question I asked was ... have you killed anyone. He said yes, said he was a tool of the government, but his body movements and the look he gave me indicated he was not comfortable with that fact. After his second tour, he got out of the military. It changed him. I had not seen him in about 10 years, and yes people change, but there was almost nothing left of the guy I once knew.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, you can look at it the way that the Bush Admin had axed the photos of the Old Glory draped coffins arriving in the US holding the bodies of fallen soldiers. Out of sight out of mind. People wanted to see those pictures to understand the mounting death tolls of the soldiers. IN another way it honours those who have fallen by showing the citizens who is dying for their freedom. The Bush Admin wanted to save face and say the war was being won by hiding the coffins from the media and the public.

It does the same thing here. We don't see the bodies or these trophies these soldiers took, because that would put a stain on the military and the current operation. In order for the public to continue to support the troops, this kind of thing can't see the light of day. The soldiers are supposed to be there to protect these people, to protect their freedom and help them. But in this case, we have a few soldiers who seem to be doing this for their own sick pleasure. Those soldiers need to be called out when it happens.

The soldiers were most definitely "called out." I provided links, one of which provides many other links. As for "when it happens," you make it sound as if it's an ongoing thing, as if this is just one of many instances that "are happening." This is not comparable to the coffins being returned home. One is part of the official war; an ongoing part of any war. The latter is a group of rogue soldiers, and the incident had nothing to do "officially" with the U.S. military and/or government nor is it part of "what's happening." The murders weren't sanctioned, called for, supported by, cheered over, condoned. Quite the opposite. They are not an official part of the war. Of course there are random acts of horror just as there are random acts of horror in every war, on both sides. We don't in any way condone this or encourage it as part of the fight. Quite the opposite.

It's not right for any soldier to partake in this kind of activity. But maybe we should just drop the pretense or pretext of helping these people. Since as time goes on, it is more about helping western interests than freeing any people.

What these soldiers did has nothing to do with our purpose for being there and/or with official actions. It was a random group of soldiers acting on their own and they are being severely dealt with, as they should be. To try to tie this into the reasons we are there, to try to use this as a reason we shouldn't be there, to tie it into "western interests" is totally out of line.

Not sure if I explained myself properly here.

Maybe not, and perhaps that's why I'm having a real problem with what you seem to be saying.

Last year I caught up with an old high school friend (and a looong time close friend as well) He had done two tours in Bosnia, and two in Afghanistan. .. The question I asked was ... have you killed anyone. He said yes, said he was a tool of the government, but his body movements and the look he gave me indicated he was not comfortable with that fact. After his second tour, he got out of the military. It changed him. I had not seen him in about 10 years, and yes people change, but there was almost nothing left of the guy I once knew.

You could be right, but on the other hand, perhaps the look he gave you was saying he wasn't comfortable talking about it with you. As for having changed him, I think it would go without saying that most people who serve time in a war zone do change; that they are changed by the experience.

Edited March 24, 2011 by American Woman