wyly Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 Good reply Harry and very true! Some people only think Harper is smart because he has not said anything stupid. Not saying something stupid is not evidence you are brilliant. Some people here can't get their heads around this. WWWTT not said something stupid...I don't recall the exact words but how about "canada will not go into a recession" or "canada will not have deficit but a small surplus"...this was just before the last election... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jack Weber Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 Chauncey Gardener... Peter Sellers fan??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Molly Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 Peter Sellers fan??? Insight can be found in many places. Yesterday I was dubbed a fan of Hermann Goering. Meh! The man knew a thing or two about propaganda. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Scotty Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 I happen to believe that a coalition is a real option that the Liberals with the NDP will effect if they have a chance. Unless there's a very drastic seat change they won't have the numbers Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Unless there's a very drastic seat change they won't have the numbers Presuming the Tories don't get a majority, the Opposition won't have the numbers on May 2nd (or 9th) to form a coalition. If they're still bound and determined to form a coalition, they'll have their chance with the Throne Speech which will be a few weeks later. It's difficult to conceive of the Governor General subjecting the country to two elections within weeks of each other, so I would think, as I've stated before, under this scenario (and not, I'm not saying it will happen or that I think it's a good idea or anything), the Governor General would ask the Ignatieff to form a government. Whether it is a vote-by-vote formula (as we have now), formal coalition, an agreement to support the government, or a combination of the two (as the 2008 agreement was; a Liberal-NDP coalition with the Bloc agreeing for a period of time not to vote against the government) would be up to the Opposition to decide. So it is not an out-of-the-park possibility that we could see a coalition, providing the Tories don't win a majority and the Opposition decide not to support the Speech from the Throne. I've already stated, as well, that there are other possible formulations. Harper could try to duplicate what his Conservative counterpart in the UK, David Cameron did and create a coalition with the NDP, which arithmetically would work. Or he could create a budget with enough Quebec-friendly carrots that the Bloc would support it, or a budget NDP friendly enough that Layton couldn't resist. As I said, a coalition is still quite possible, or not. If Iggy faces the same fractious caucus as he took over in 2008, a formal coalition is highly unlikely. Edited March 24, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
William Ashley Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) "Jason Kenney Drums up $100,000 to support Gay Immigrants" Edited March 24, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Scotty Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 Quote of the day??? "Coaliton"..."CO-A-LITION"... "A reckless coaliton!" "Coalition?" "coaliton!" "Coalition,coalition,coalition.." Get used to it. It's a sound political strategy. And it will lead to increasing pressure on Ignatieff to flat out promise there will be no coalition - or at least, no coalition with the separatists. The more he resists making that statement the more doubt there will be in people's minds about just what they're voting for. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
fellowtraveller Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Get used to it. It's a sound political strategy. And it will lead to increasing pressure on Ignatieff to flat out promise there will be no coalition - or at least, no coalition with the separatists. The more he resists making that statement the more doubt there will be in people's minds about just what they're voting for. I don't think many people have any doubt what they are voting for: either Harper or The Coalition. No matter what sort of spin is put on it, any coalition must include the Bloc, NDP and Liberals or the numbers do not add up. NDP leader Jack Layton made it clear yesterday that he's not so skittish about publicly discussing a coalition, It is a huge gamble by Ignatieff, who cannot talk about a coalition while continuing to pretend he has a chance at forming a govt any other way. It really did not work out for the last Liberal leader who tried, and it won't now. Quote The government should do something.
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Get used to it. It's a sound political strategy. And it will lead to increasing pressure on Ignatieff to flat out promise there will be no coalition - or at least, no coalition with the separatists. The more he resists making that statement the more doubt there will be in people's minds about just what they're voting for. And Mr. Harper cannot run and hide from the fact that he was prepared to the exact same thing in 2004... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
SF/PF Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 So it is not an out-of-the-park possibility that we could see a coalition, providing the Tories don't win a majority and the Opposition decide not to support the Speech from the Throne. I've already stated, as well, that there are other possible formulations. Harper could try to duplicate what his Conservative counterpart in the UK, David Cameron did and create a coalition with the NDP, which arithmetically would work. The more I think about it, the less likely I think a coalition is. If Harper returns with another minority, I suspect that the opposition will let him govern while they focus on electing new party leaders. Quote Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -4.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15
fellowtraveller Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 The more I think about it, the less likely I think a coalition is. If Harper returns with another minority, I suspect that the opposition will let him govern while they focus on electing new party leaders. I had thought of that too, which makes the forcing of this election at this time by a weak Opposition all the more puzzling. It may well be moot though, cince I think now that a Tory majority is very likely. That will give all of them time to gracefully start over. Quote The government should do something.
Molly Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 I don't know. It might even be the smart money that's on a Tory majority, but something in my gut says Mr. Harper is lookiing at his comeuppance. Could be way wrong- figure that I must/should be-n but there's just something in the air... Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
capricorn Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 The more I think about it, the less likely I think a coalition is. If Harper returns with another minority, I suspect that the opposition will let him govern while they focus on electing new party leaders. So, if the Conservatives return with a minority, the opposition that just voted non-confidence in their ability to govern would nonetheless allow them to govern? It does sound odd, but I suppose anything's possible the way things are going. If Ignatieff fails to lead the Liberals to victory doesn't the party's constitution require an automatic leadership review? If my understanding is correct, perhaps such a review would be unnecessary should the Conservatives win another minority and the opposition manages to convince the GG to allow a coalition headed by Ignatieff. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
fellowtraveller Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 And Mr. Harper cannot run and hide from the fact that he was prepared to the exact same thing in 2004... Sure he can. That was then and this is now. Even more important, there are no pictures of him posing with shiteating grins like Duceppe, Layton and Dion did in 2008. Layton has already made a big mistake by assuring us he will be part of a coalition that must contain Ducppe to add up to a government, and it is compounded by Igantieff failig to vehemently deny that he will ever form one. He could get away with a 180 degree course change on May 3, but Ignatieff has to say no-no-no now and for the next few weeks or he is DOA. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 If Ignatieff fails to lead the Liberals to victory doesn't the party's constitution require an automatic leadership review?It won't matter if Ignatieff loses and Haprper gains a majority. If that happens, he will quit the next day, he won't be given the choice. If the Tories get a minority, Iggy will be PM and of course remain leader. Do or die for Mikey. Quote The government should do something.
Molly Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 He could get away with a 180 degree course change on May 3, but Ignatieff has to say no-no-no now and for the next few weeks or he is DOA. I'm betting that he has the wits to take that risk. The worm is turning. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Sure he can. That was then and this is now. Even more important, there are no pictures of him posing with shiteating grins like Duceppe, Layton and Dion did in 2008. Layton has already made a big mistake by assuring us he will be part of a coalition that must contain Ducppe to add up to a government, and it is compounded by Igantieff failig to vehemently deny that he will ever form one. He could get away with a 180 degree course change on May 3, but Ignatieff has to say no-no-no now and for the next few weeks or he is DOA. There's a paper with his signature on it... He simply cannot hide from that no matter how much Conservative's,and more importantly Conservative voters, wish he could... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
capricorn Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 There's a paper with his signature on it... There's an even more recent paper bearing Ignatieff's signature endorsing a coalition that just ahead of an election, mysteriously disappeared from the Liberal Party website. Coalition agreement with Ignatieff’s signature disappears from Liberal.ca http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2011/03/coalition-agreement-with-ignatieffs-signature-disappears-from-liberal-ca/ The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.The accord between parties led by Stéphane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe came just hours after Liberal caucus members agreed unanimously that Dion would stay on to lead the Liberal-NDP coalition, with support in the House of Commons from Bloc MPs. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Tilter Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 LOL... yes, thats it. And, the voter asked, Why would that be any different than what's happened in the last years of Tory rule--- the leftists & separatists (who shouldn't be allowed to sit as a federal party since they don't run candidates in any province other than Que) will vote together as a block and will continue to do so even after may when they sit opposite a Tory majority. The only difference there will be is that there will be at least 2 new people who choose to call themselves "leaders" as did ugly iggy. We will also see Jack Layton gone, (pity) as the NDP party loses more seats and influence. Jack will spend a lot of time wondering why he voted for an election and iggy will be applying for a US work permit while patting himself on the back for the wise move of calling an election so he can go back to "wishing that his country was a little better" and not having to salute the the "beer flag". Iggy's one asset is a leg that twists around so he can put his WHOLE foot on his tongue. Dippy Duceppe will remain just what he is today--- a sniveling blackmailer who wonders why he entered politics when he could have a successful ambulance chaser in Shawinigan, Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 There's an even more recent paper bearing Ignatieff's signature endorsing a coalition that just ahead of an election, mysteriously disappeared from the Liberal Party website. http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2011/03/coalition-agreement-with-ignatieffs-signature-disappears-from-liberal-ca/ A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html So... A Tory hack blog and a tired old photo of Stephan Dion with Layton and Duceppe... No Mr.Ignatieff though... Now,admittedly,he has'nt entirely shot the idea down,but once he was "coronated" Liberal leader...The "Coalition" stuff went away... Conversely,Mr.Harper was quite prepared to form a coalition with Mr.Layton and....Wait for it... Mr.Duceppe... To form coalition as an alternative to Mr. Martin's government....He was prepared to go the Governor-General with this signed agrement... So the fore runner to any proposed "Seperatist/Socialist coalition... Was the good 'ol Canadian Alliance(Reform)/Speratist/Socialist coalition... He cannot hide form that fact... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Harry Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) So could we say that Harper started all this recent coalition talk with his letter to the GG in 2004. It if it was a good idea then why is not a good idea now? Why doesn't Harper just stand tall and take kudos for his efforts to work with the separatists and the socialists? After all that's what you need to do in minority government situations. Maybe Harper's lack of ability to work with others means he is not the right person for this kind of job. How many elections have we had since 2004 and how many of them have been caused by Harper? Edited March 25, 2011 by Harry Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 So could we say that Harper started all this recent coalition talk with his letter to the GG in 2004. It if it was a good idea then why is not a good idea now? Why doesn't Harper just stand tall and take kudos for his efforts to work with the separatists and the socialists? Because he would look like a fool if he ever admitted this.. My hope is that the federal opposition parties all hammer him,and his friend,with this "Coalition of 2004" inescapable fact every single time the Conservatives bring this up... He cannot,and should be able to,hide from that fact... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
scribblet Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 How about that guy Count Igula ( Okay Count Ignatieff) here he is howling about the PM being disrespectful of Parliament and meanwhile he has his face in front of a mike outside the House while the budget is being read!!!!! Some respect for Parliament. As for Contempt of Parliament, he will not answer the Press' question re Coalition, at least comes nearer honesty by saying he will work with any Party, but they are both avoiding the truth. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Shwa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 How about that guy Count Igula ( Okay Count Ignatieff) here he is howling about the PM being disrespectful of Parliament and meanwhile he has his face in front of a mike outside the House while the budget is being read!!!!! Some respect for Parliament. As for Contempt of Parliament, he will not answer the Press' question re Coalition, at least comes nearer honesty by saying he will work with any Party, but they are both avoiding the truth. But the truth that wasn't avoided was contempt of Parliament was it? I mean *how dare they* not answer direct questions about some alleged phantom "coalition" but how fast the CPC slink away when the contempt of Parliament questions start flying. But then again that is social conservatism right there isn't it. Contempt of Parliament is just the bsymptom of contempt for Canadians in general. Contempt for our democratic institutions? Why look, over there, they might be forming a coalition. Quick, look over there. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 So... A Tory hack blog and a tired old photo of Stephan Dion with Layton and Duceppe... No Mr.Ignatieff though... Now,admittedly,he has'nt entirely shot the idea down,but once he was "coronated" Liberal leader...The "Coalition" stuff went away... Conversely,Mr.Harper was quite prepared to form a coalition with Mr.Layton and....Wait for it... Mr.Duceppe... To form coalition as an alternative to Mr. Martin's government....He was prepared to go the Governor-General with this signed agrement... So the fore runner to any proposed "Seperatist/Socialist coalition... Was the good 'ol Canadian Alliance(Reform)/Speratist/Socialist coalition... He cannot hide form that fact... No, he can't. So what? The real question is "Will the Canadian people care?" Or at least enough of them to matter, Jack. I really think this coalition thing is too complicated for the average voter. Polls showed that they don't really like the idea and when the Opposition brings up what Harper did years ago it sounds to the average Joe as if they are just throwing crap at the wall, hoping that something will stick. Notice that personally, I agree with you that Harper is a bit of a hypocrite! I just don't think it will affect the election results. Strong factors, like Ignatieff seeming like an out-of-touch egghead and Harper coming across as cold but competent, are what will have the most affect. All the parties are desperately trying to choose their weapons against their opponents but I don't think the real issues have developed yet. Things will happen during the campaign and the Canadian people will tell their politicians what they care about - not the other way around! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
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