GWiz Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Because of Bush's actions in Iraq and the general way the US is seen because of that action the US is now placed in a no win situation when it comes to Libya... If Ghadaffi succeeds in putting down the uprising in Libya; recapturing all that the rebels have gained, which is quite possible; where does that leave ALL those people in the ME/North Africa that have and are standing up for freedom and hopefully a more democratic way of living for millions of people? Even Egypt can "turn" (hopefully not) if someone like Ghadaffi can overcome a rebellion inspite of EVERYONE being against him... When Bush took Ghadaffi "off the hook" he unleashed what may become the worst thing to befall the US and the world since 9/11... The United States has become a toothless tiger, because the US has no other choices left... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Because of Bush's actions in Iraq and the general way the US is seen because of that action the US is now placed in a no win situation when it comes to Libya... The USA has no primary interests in Libya and wouldn't have acted anyway. Italy, a US ally and NATO member, courted Libya for years. If Ghadaffi succeeds in putting down the uprising in Libya; recapturing all that the rebels have gained, which is quite possible; where does that leave ALL those people in the ME/North Africa that have and are standing up for freedom and hopefully a more democratic way of living for millions of people? Exactly where they were before. Why is this an American responsibilty beyond pointed US interests (e.g. Israel, oil)? Even Egypt can "turn" (hopefully not) if someone like Ghadaffi can overcome a rebellion inspite of EVERYONE being against him... When Bush took Ghadaffi "off the hook" he unleashed what may become the worst thing to befall the US and the world since 9/11... The United States has become a toothless tiger, because the US has no other choices left... Off what hook? The US bombed his ass way back in 1986. Saddam thought the US was "toothless" too. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Posted March 16, 2011 The USA has no primary interests in Libya and wouldn't have acted anyway. Italy, a US ally and NATO member, courted Libya for years. Exactly where they were before. Why is this an American responsibilty beyond pointed US interests (e.g. Israel, oil)? Off what hook? The US bombed his ass way back in 1986. Saddam thought the US was "toothless" too. http://www.siasat.com/english/news/bush-was-right-engage-gaddafi-ex-aide Gotta say I'm surprised that you totally missed the point... Unless Ghadaffi is STOPPED, and the US is the only one, with or without help that can do it, the ENTIRE ME/North Africa can turn into a very bad situation for the whole world if dictators start to FIGHT, Ghadaffi like, instead of complying like Tunesia and Egypt did... Even Saudi Arabia may become a nightmare scenario for the US (and the world), not just the likes of Bahrain (which may draw SA in), Libya and Syria... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 http://www.siasat.com/english/news/bush-was-right-engage-gaddafi-ex-aide Gotta say I'm surprised that you totally missed the point... What was the point? Unless Ghadaffi is STOPPED, and the US is the only one, with or without help that can do it, the ENTIRE ME/North Africa can turn into a very bad situation for the whole world if dictators start to FIGHT, Ghadaffi like, instead of complying like Tunesia and Egypt did... So what...we are already way ahead on that score. Sometimes you win...sometimes you lose. Why do you have a hard on for Ghadaffi? If you are so concerned, let Canada do it...you skipped Iraq...remember? Even Saudi Arabia may become a nightmare scenario for the US (and the world), not just the likes of Bahrain (which may draw SA in), Libya and Syria... The US will protect the Saudi regime from "rebels"....don't lose sight of what matters to Washington. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Posted March 16, 2011 What was the point? So what...we are already way ahead on that score. Sometimes you win...sometimes you lose. Why do you have a hard on for Ghadaffi? If you are so concerned, let Canada do it...you skipped Iraq...remember? The US will protect the Saudi regime from "rebels"....don't lose sight of what matters to Washington. OK, gottcha, you didn't miss the point, you choose to ignor it... Fighting on the side of the Saudi King may, or may not, be in the best interests of the US I'm thinking... It may be an interesting decision you guys in our lower 48 may actually have to make if Ghadaffi succeeds... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) OK, gottcha, you didn't miss the point, you choose to ignor it... Fighting on the side of the Saudi King may, or may not, be in the best interests of the US I'm thinking... It may be an interesting decision you guys in our lower 48 may actually have to make if Ghadaffi succeeds... LOL! Let me get this straight...you are sitting on your ass in Canada formulating policy, interests, and actions for the United States? Is this the same Canada that told the Americans it SHOULD NOT invade Iraq? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off! PS: The US already bombed Libya....PM Martin kissed his ass! Edited March 16, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Posted March 16, 2011 LOL! Let me get this straight...you are sitting on your ass in Canada formulating policy, interests, and actions for the United States? Is this the same Canada that told the Americans it SHOULD NOT invade Iraq? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off! PS: The US already bombed Iraq.... PM Martin kissed his ass! L'il ol' me tell the big ol' US what to do? Are you nuts? Hell no... Read the thread title again... I'm simply saying the US can't win this one no matter what it does or doesn't do... You can thank Bush for that, and that's ALL I'm saying... So laugh away my friend... Just hope that Ghadaffi doesn't have the last laugh... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
scouterjim Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Because of Bush's actions in Iraq and the general way the US is seen because of that action the US is now placed in a no win situation when it comes to Libya... If Ghadaffi succeeds in putting down the uprising in Libya; recapturing all that the rebels have gained, which is quite possible; where does that leave ALL those people in the ME/North Africa that have and are standing up for freedom and hopefully a more democratic way of living for millions of people? Even Egypt can "turn" (hopefully not) if someone like Ghadaffi can overcome a rebellion inspite of EVERYONE being against him... When Bush took Ghadaffi "off the hook" he unleashed what may become the worst thing to befall the US and the world since 9/11... The United States has become a toothless tiger, because the US has no other choices left... Why is it in the interest of the US to defend Israel, but not the Libyan people? Edited March 17, 2011 by scouterjim Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 L'il ol' me tell the big ol' US what to do? Are you nuts? Hell no... Read the thread title again... I'm simply saying the US can't win this one no matter what it does or doesn't do... You can thank Bush for that, and that's ALL I'm saying... So laugh away my friend... Just hope that Ghadaffi doesn't have the last laugh... The US doesn't have anything to win or lose in frickin' Libya. Hell, President Bush already got Ghaddafi to roll over on nuclear weapons development without firing a shot in Libya. You are inventing a US interest where there is none. If Canada wants to do something, knock yourself out. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Why is it in the interest of the US to defend Israel, but not the Libyan people? Because the "Libyan people" are citizens of Libya, not Israel. Israel is an ally of the United States...Libya most certainly is not. Italy is Libya's sponsor, not the USA. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
scouterjim Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Because the "Libyan people" are citizens of Libya, not Israel. Israel is an ally of the United States...Libya most certainly is not. Italy is Libya's sponsor, not the USA. So, the west should defend only those who are supposedly on our side, and say screw the people of all other nations, even though they seek our support? Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 The US doesn't have anything to win or lose in frickin' Libya. Hell, President Bush already got Ghaddafi to roll over on nuclear weapons development without firing a shot in Libya. You are inventing a US interest where there is none. If Canada wants to do something, knock yourself out. Seems some either don't remember Operation El Dorado Canyon or they choose not to. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 So, the west should defend only those who are supposedly on our side, and say screw the people of all other nations, even though they seek our support? Oh yeah...sure. It'd be someone just like you screaming about the evil Americans if they even lifted a finger either way. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 So, the west should defend only those who are supposedly on our side, and say screw the people of all other nations, even though they seek our support? What? When did the "west" and "our" become synonymous with American only risk, cost, and dead servicemen? Canada has the alleged "Responsibility to Protect"...not the USA. If you want to "support" them, knock yourself out. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Seems some either don't remember Operation El Dorado Canyon or they choose not to. Alas...like Godzilla...they are too young...mere children old brother. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
scouterjim Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Oh yeah...sure. It'd be someone just like you screaming about the evil Americans if they even lifted a finger either way. When have I ever said anything about "evil Americans"? Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
GWiz Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 The US doesn't have anything to win or lose in frickin' Libya. Hell, President Bush already got Ghaddafi to roll over on nuclear weapons development without firing a shot in Libya. Giving up something you never had and had no intention of getting to get an "acceptable" rating instead of being the world's #1 terrorist with all things past forgiven.... WOW! I wonder how Bush ever got him to take such a "deal"... BTW - You do know that the MO of the 9/11 attacks FIT Ghadaffi a whole lot better than they ever did Bin Laden, right? You are inventing a US interest where there is none. Well my friend you're either no where near as smart as I think you are or you are purposely trying to ignore the obvious... Either way, it's still a no win situation for the US... Like I said, I hope Ghadaffi doesn't get the last laugh on this one like he did when Bush let him off the hook... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 What? When did the "west" and "our" become synonymous with American only risk, cost, and dead servicemen? Canada has the alleged "Responsibility to Protect"...not the USA. If you want to "support" them, knock yourself out. Yep...these are the same fellows that wish to leave you in a lurch in Laughghanistan. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 When have I ever said anything about "evil Americans"? Read it again...s-l-o-w-l-y. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Giving up something you never had and had no intention of getting to get an "acceptable" rating instead of being the world's #1 terrorist with all things past forgiven.... WOW! I wonder how Bush ever got him to take such a "deal"... BTW - You do know that the MO of the 9/11 attacks FIT Ghadaffi a whole lot better than they ever did Bin Laden, right? Doesn't matter...Ghaddafi was already on our shit list going back to the mid 80's. Even Saddam got a better deal than Ghaddafi. Well my friend you're either no where near as smart as I think you are or you are purposely trying to ignore the obvious... Either way, it's still a no win situation for the US... Like I said, I hope Ghadaffi doesn't get the last laugh on this one like he did when Bush let him off the hook... It's a no-win situation because the US is not even in the game. Libya ain't worth it. Don't worry...those Canadian oil service workers will find employment elsewhere....just ask former PM Martin! Edited March 17, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Alas...like Godzilla...they are too young...mere children old brother. Then there's that wee Lockerbie thingie...yeah...ol' daffy has been a true pal over the years. But, water under the bridge, eh? http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/muammar-gaddafi-ordered-lockerbie-bombing-says-libyan-minister/story-e6frfku0-1226011070628 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
sharkman Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 I think that Obama certainly has an agenda WRT Libya and the other uprisings. After talking big about Egypt and then watching as a secure region becomes a question mark with many uncertainties, Obama probably wants Ghadaffi to stay in power. All of the hand wringing and talk about a no fly zone was just a smoke screen to keep up appearances, they never had any such intention. The problem is with the previous tough talk, the rebels in Libya thought the US would help them out in some way as they armed themselves and tried to oust the nutjob. Better the devil you know I guess. The US is quite worried about Saudi Arabia, you can tell by the amount of times it's mentioned(zero). As demonstrations there and in Bahrain are violently put down, the US has very clearly signaled with its response to Libya that it will do nothing and it's open season on protesters. Clean up your mess and don't let the oil industry become disrupted anymore than it is, is the signal being sent. In a way you can't blame them, oil makes the world go round and if the US were to police every uprising that develops they would run out of men, equipment and money. They should just keep their mouths shut though if they have no intention of helping resisters. It's starting to ring pretty hollow. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 In a way you can't blame them, oil makes the world go round and if the US were to police every uprising that develops they would run out of men, equipment and money. They should just keep their mouths shut though if they have no intention of helping resisters. It's starting to ring pretty hollow. You got that right...Americans will die for oil....protesters, not so much. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 I think that Obama certainly has an agenda WRT Libya and the other uprisings. After talking big about Egypt and then watching as a secure region becomes a question mark with many uncertainties, Obama probably wants Ghadaffi to stay in power. All of the hand wringing and talk about a no fly zone was just a smoke screen to keep up appearances, they never had any such intention. The problem is with the previous tough talk, the rebels in Libya thought the US would help them out in some way as they armed themselves and tried to oust the nutjob. Better the devil you know I guess. The US is quite worried about Saudi Arabia, you can tell by the amount of times it's mentioned(zero). As demonstrations there and in Bahrain are violently put down, the US has very clearly signaled with its response to Libya that it will do nothing and it's open season on protesters. Clean up your mess and don't let the oil industry become disrupted anymore than it is, is the signal being sent. In a way you can't blame them, oil makes the world go round and if the US were to police every uprising that develops they would run out of men, equipment and money. They should just keep their mouths shut though if they have no intention of helping resisters. It's starting to ring pretty hollow. Nice to see someone starting to "get it"... But I DO so love watching BC and his Dog (no offence intended) defending Obama and Hillary, it must be killing him... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Nice to see someone starting to "get it"... But I DO so love watching BC and his Dog (no offence intended) defending Obama and Hillary, it must be killing him... It's pretty easy to defend common sense.....not your pretend policy interests or scenarios for another country. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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