Mayor Ford to nix Pride Funding!

[Oleg Bach]

Mammoliti is against free speech, such as they are in Canada. That should "offend taxpayers" more.

Gays are used for political gain by straights. Intelligent gays do not like this. Others have found that this parade can be a platform for other shrills and wacko causes - The condemnation of Jews in Israel is really a low blow - attatching that cause to gay rights>.. Blacks hate it also when they are compared to gays - I wish that the politicans would stop under estimating the brain power of the average voter - pandering and emotional manipulation has it's limits.

[Black Dog]

Mammoliti is against free speech, such as they are in Canada. That should "offend taxpayers" more.

I wonder if this fuckwit (when he's not daydreaming of brothels on Toronto Island) actually thinks that the organizers of Pride should be vetting the clothing and accessories of every participant in every event.

"Assless chaps, good. Rainbow thong, good. Studded leather vest, good. 'End Israeli Apartheid' T-Shirt? Aw, hells no!"

[Oleg Bach]

Gays and some Italian politican that wants to pimp off our women on the Island - are in the same boat...all are debauched...You really should not be forced to approve of something you do not like. I feel that making it more easy for poor woman to destroy themselves through prostitution...is similar in scope to encourageing woman to cheer on a bunch of gay men - while they them selves can not find a husband!

[Oleg Bach]

Gays and some Italian politican that wants to pimp off our women on the Island - are in the same boat...all are debauched...You really should not be forced to approve of something you do not like. I feel that making it more easy for poor woman to destroy themselves through prostitution...is similar in scope to encourageing woman to cheer on a bunch of gay men - while they them selves can not find a husband!

Of course they are trained that you do not need a mate - that hanging out in gay bars because they "feel safe" is an option to family.

[Moonlight Graham]

Rob Ford is a homophobic piece of butt.

I can guarantee the lazy and apathetic young people in that city will not sit on their bums next election and will vote that goofball out of office.

[Oleg Bach]

Further more now that I have had my tenth glass of wine. Gays don't even like woman. They create boyish fashion that creates a discomfort amongst women regarding body image - causing them to vomit. I just don't understand why modern woman are so supportive of the mimicing gays that actually dispise them and want to be them? What the hell is that? You would think that woman would understand that gays are not their friends. BUT of course with so many bullish and barbaric males running about - It's pretty easy to get seduced into a smoother and kinder gay culture...where men are woman - Maybe MEN should start acting like gentle men rather than crazed reproductive dogs?

[Rue]

Look Oleg for someone who doesn't read my posts Bloody sends more love notes my way...bet you wish you had groupies Oleg...but excuse me its time to respond to my favourite groupie:

"But Rue...if this is only a tit-for-tat response, then why do you later (in this post) say I actually am an anti-semite?"

Again your comment is illogical. The fact that I am tatting your tit has no relation to why I have challenged you as an anti-semite. I have challenged you as an anti-semite not because you have tits or titted my tat but because as you have yet again in this response continue to depict the QUIAA as not being anti semitic and support their views. That is the specific context in which I would challenge you and do challenge you as an anti-semite, no matter how hard you try misrepresent the specific context in which I challenged you as being one. The waxing poetic about your tits Bloody is but another example of you trying to avoid the actual words I stated and trying to misquote their context. Par for the course with you.

You stated:

"By your logic, this means either

1) You are, in fact, a homophobe, and you perceive we are accurately impugning each other, or

2) You want it both ways here, in a desperate attempt to "win" the debate."

Not its not my logic, its your subjective opinion restated as if it is the conclusion to what I stated. It is not. It is simply your subjective opinion. Its not my opinion or the point I made-it is yet another example of you mistating what I said and trying to give it a different meaning.

What I did state and will repeat again is you have no problems justifying and defending anti-semites by claiming if I challenge them I am against the lifestyle of gay people. On that I challenged you. I have stated if you support the QUIAA's platform it makes you necessarily an anti-semite, and your use of the gay collective identity and gay pride events as a shield to protect them from any criticism and say to criticize their anti-semitism makes me anti gay is a crock.

You stated:

"I suspect it's 2). You don't really think I'm an anti-semite; and that's exactly why you play the card."

Quite frankly I don't really care what you are. I don't think you have the balls to state your actual opinion about Jews. I think you hide behind your failed accusations against me and having turned this into a series of anti-gay allegations against me because you are too cowardly to address the subjects and positions held by the QUIAA as evidenced by this response where you white washed their hatred and then try once again to avoid dealing with them by trying to once again switch focus from their hatred to claiming we should be talking of the issue of freedom of speech. Hey genius the whole point of discussing the hatred of their comments is the point of the issue-whether people with hateful messages should get taxpayers money to spew that hatred. Are there limitations to freedom of speech?

You of course can't answer that. You can't because you haven't a clue how to defend anti-semitism so you of course attack me personally instead. What's the matter Bloody-I won;t go away? Boo.

Oh but wait here comes another lecture from thou to moi:

"You see Rue, if I am wrong about your derision for gay men, my error is plainly based on my misperceptions of your actual words."

Why? Because you say so? Here we go again. You make a pronouncement so it must be so? Lol. No Bloody, your subjective opinion does not automatically be fact because you say so.

You see Bloody, its simply you again pronouncing what you demand must be fact based on one thing-your divine providence. Last time I looked you are just another leftist trendy peacock trying to lecture the world on what it must believe. The world according to Bloody.

So you see Bloody, as long as you lecture what must be, I will be here to tell you that I think if you keep coming to my door to preach and try save me, I am going to chase you and

hound you to hell itself until you get off my phackin lawn and bring your missionary act elsewhere.

You stated:

"Whereas your slur of me as an "anti-semite" is not based on anything I've ever said about Jewish people, in any context."

Again you deliberately misrepresent. I specifically stated if you support the QUIAA who attack Jews, that makes you an anti-semite. No genius, you don't remain pristine and above hatred advocating on behalf of a group that spews hatred about Jews. No your hands are not clean. Your smug support of their anti-semitic platform smears you in their anti-semitism as much as you would love to pretend it doesn't. Then again I expect such an approach from you. Just because you support a bunch of anti-semitic sob's right to preach hatred doesn't make you anti Jew. Oh no not Bloody. Can't possibly be. I mean after all some of your best friends are Jews right bloody...only in this context you call them Zionists. Right suddenly Bloody is a supporter of Zionism and Zionists. Him an anti-semite? Never. Lol.

You state:

"You see the difference? The difference is that you're making it all up out of whole cloth. Just to be a douchebag, along with all the other shivering losers who so promiscuously play the "anti-semite" card."

No I called you out for supporting an anti-semitic group and call you out again now for being such a pathetic coward and trying to argue you can advocate for the right for the QUIAA to preach anti-semitic hatred at public events but it doesn't make you an anti-semite just someone interested in freedom of speech. Save it Bloody. Save that pathetic whining and "who me a bigot" ploy for someone else. You walk like a duck and you fart like a duck.

Oh but wait, after saying you read their platform and found nothing anti-semitic about them you state:

"I said nothing whatsoever about their platform. Not a breath. Only freedom of speech. An offensive notion to you, I gather."

There it is. Let's avoid the content of their speech. Let's pretend. Let's just ignore its contents and selectively only deal with what Bloody says we should deal with. Let's quickly avoid their vile allegations and calls to kill Jews and simply say its their right to say-right Bloody-there will be no discussion on whether freedom of speech is determined by the contents of a message, no not for Bloody-in his world poof we just magically make the hatred disappear and pretend we can discuss freedom of speech without examining the contents of the words. What a phony. What an absolute phony. Freedom of speech does not require examining the merit of the words says Bloody. Right.

You stated:

"Calling your post "incoherent is not "name calling," little Rue. It's reportage."

Yes and the above comment is evidence of how witty you are. Wait let's all giggle, you me, Oleg and Shwa...all together now.. teee hee hee reportage....tee hee hee

Oh but wait, for someone who dismissed all my words as coherent you then say:

"So....you're saying that a few coherent sentences I managed to decipher within your rambling, incoherent missive determines that the whole thing must be coherent?"

Actually no..but they do make it clear you name call, are selective, and contradict yourself.

You stated"

"That's not a coherent argument."

It couldn't be any clearer-you just proved you are selective, petty, and contradictory and I suppose think you are engaging in reportage...tee hee hee...

Oh wait but here is the one I was waiting for and I trust if Oleg did just once in his life appreciate wine he would have attempted to get to the part of the bottle where we hear you say:

"I don't hate anyone."

Now how else to better proof you are a sanctimonious, holier then thou, two faced, presumptious, arrogant, full of himself, self proclaimed saint then those words! Lol. Out they spewed. You hate anyone? No not you! Saint Bloody hate anyone?

Oh but wait, here's some more examples of how Bloody stands up for what he says and backs up his words and never weasels and back steps because he can't back up with my words what he accuses me of having written:

"That's exactly it. I don't need to produce them, because finally we've reached a point of precise agreement."

How pathetic. You don't need to? You start off attacking me and making allegations I hate gays and then when asked to produce the words you don't need to because I agree with you? Lol. Man talk about smeering oneself with vasoline to slime out of a position. Lol.

Oh but wait, here's another false allegation by you just in case you ran out of others:

"But you are now not only calling people who disagree with Zionism "anti-semites"; you are calling me, who is not opposed to Zionism, an anti-semite. Don't you understand this point?"

I do but clearly you don't. Whether you yourself agree with Zionism or not does not automatically make you pristeen and beyond challenge. I will say it again. I have repeated on this forum many times that I have never stated contrary to your misrepresentations that someone is anti-semitic merely because they are or are not anti-Zionist. What a stupid thing to suggest I said. Its stupid given the no. of posts where I have stated the contrary.

In this series of responses to you I have repeated over and over again to each time you misrepresent my position that I accused you of anti-semitism not because you are or are not Zionist but because you champion the cause of the QUIAA whose platform and message is full of hatred against Jews and if you support that message no you can't have it both ways and say, oh but I like Jews, I just think its a freedom of speech issue. Its not Jews I hate I just think people should be able to attack and call for the death of Jews in public and then if someone like you challenges them I should be able to call you a homophobe.

You stated:

"Like I said, you're making it up...simply because you're pissed off."

..And like I said above, you are a two faced hypocrate for thinking you can advocate and defend anti-semites and then come on this board and say you are not one and then go further and have the audacity to spew out you hate no one. Saint Bloody.

You stated again (and its interesting considering you accuse me of rambling why it is actually you repeating the same few points over and over)that:

"Whether or not their platform "attacks all Jews"--a highly dubious claim--I will repeat, so you might finally comprehend it: it is not about my "supporting their platform." That's not even relevant. I support the right of Holocaust deniers to screech their filth; I support the right of reactionary rightists to tell us we should adopt fascism; I support the right of Henry Kissinger to speak in public, and he's uncontroversially a war criminal.

But QAIA?.....Now I'm just going too far!"

You once again deliberately mis-state the issue. The issue was never whether they should have an arena to spew their hatred. It was whether they should have the right to be funded by the municipal government to spew this hatred and whether they have the right to use an invent that is supposed to be inclusive of Jewish gays to single them out and preach hatred of them. It is about time and place. It was never about freedom of speech and for you to try switch the topic to suggest it is shows again how you lack any credibility.

If this group wants to spew hatred about Jews then have them do it somewhere where they do not make Jews at a public event feel unwelcome. That is the issue. Its a basic issue of common courtesy all people of any group are entitled to.

As for you again pretending you defend the right for people to hate others and say so publically, the difference between us is unlike you I am not politically correct nor do I give a rat's ass whether you think you are being politically correct-if someone spews hatred about Jews in public or private I will challenge them and if some person such as you with their self righteous holier then thou stuck up moral ass has the audacity to tell me they don't hate and are above hatred and think anyone is free to hate-then I say to you loud and clear-give me a phucking break. No I do not have to be politically proper and put up with some meely mouthed hate monger spewing anti Jewisisms in public. That same freedom of speech applies to me Bloody and I get to stand up, speak up and challenge precisely because you will not tell me I must sit and take it and no my place.

You state:

"You embrace an imaginary victimhood here. Why? Because you're foolish."

No and because you are completely ignorant of Jews, you have no clue and make no effort to understand it is victimhood I reject not embrace. You haven't a clue because you are so busy

telling me what my place is you have no clue you have no right to tell me how I must feel.

Where do you get off telling me I am foolish because I will challenge anti-semitism whereever it rears its ugly head? Where do you get off telling me I can't fight it? Foolish? Spoken like a true sheltered, self-entitled, spoiled, elitist who never has known what it feels like to feel anti-semitism. Par for the course for a jack ass like you who knows no hatred. Not you. You hate no one. You are above people who spit at you right? Its free speech when they spit at you right Bloody-oops until it comes from a Jew like me who tells you to stuff your pretentious lectures up your elitist ass.

"Ye gods."

Oh I aint even started honey buns.

"Take what? My criticisms of your own words, or my disagreements with you on specific matters?"

Why yes, take this Jew telling you to take your sign that says anti-semitism permitted here and shove it up your ass.

"That's not victimizing you, rue."

No its not. I would never allow it that is precisely why I take your lectures and throw them back in your face with contempt. No you don't lecture me on what I feel, when I feel it, how I feel it. You don't tell me what humiliates me as a Jew. The fact you continue to try do so with the above idiotic comment simply proves what an arrogant and ignorant man you are in the name of alleged leftist trendiness and you epitomize the kind of liberalism znd trendy leftism I spit at. Your kind of bigotry couched in political propriety is far more dangerous then when it comes from Oleg whose biases are direct and up front and never hidden.

"If you think a few insults (a method you yourself use regularly, as you admit, totally aside from and before this particular discussion) denotes oppresion of you as a Jewish person...then you need to take care of yoruself, and get away from these debates which drive you around the fucking bend. "

No your insults do not cause me to go around the fucking bend. In fact they are fun fun fun.

"You're sounding like a crazy person."

Ooh now that hurts. Lol. Get a clue fool. I am certifiably nutz and so? Lol. Oooh what an insult. I'm crazy. Lol.

"So Bloodyminded is all about to oppress people through internet debate with a stranger. Devious."

No not at all. Just another snot nosed goy Jewish relations expert lecturing a Jew on anti-semitism and how I should feel about anti-semites. Nothing devious about it. Its kind of annoying but other then that let's not get carried away Bloody.

"You've never heard "fraudulent" used outside a legal context? Ok."

Actually no, because when I hear it used outside its legal context in which it has a vert specific definition, it becomes meaningless because it is used by people like you the same way you use the word "crazy", simply as a name to throw out when you have nothing substantial to debate.

Oh wait I hear some contradictory words:

"I just visited their website."

This coming from someone who earlier told me he knows nothing about their platform..

"I saw a few points with which I disagree:

But I see no anti-semitism."

Well there we go then. After a thorough analysis from Bloody he sees no anti-semitism. Bloody do you ever tire of playing KING BLOODY divine provident figure who declares what truth must be for us all? Save the selective self serving analysis for someone else Bloody-do I look like someone who cares what you think about the QUIAA given you defended them without bothering to find out their platform according to you because it was not part of the issue in dispute and then ooopsy towards the end of your latest response compelled no doubt by guilt decided say maybe you should go to their web site?

Lol. Yah and of course Bloody would now say-gee yah know Rue, maybe what they say is anti-semitic. Right.

Oh but wait, quick let's distance ourselves from their site because we have to discuss its actual content:

"--let me tell you yet again--I see this as a free speech issue."

And finally what would a response be without a comment about your tag team partner:

"Shwa is more than capable of demolishing your inane ideas all by his lonesome."

Shwa is still trying to find out where Miami is on his map. I told him to find out what a Jew looks like. He confuses Jew birds with Snow birds and Quebecois and other white people.

We all look the same to him. As far as he is concerned we all came off the same boat you know. Explaining to him what your ancestors thought of mine is a bit too complex for him to handle at this point.He's still working on why white peoples' lips are so small.

[Rue]

No no no my thread is too long! Lol. Where there's Bloody there's moi.

[Shwa]

Look Oleg for someone who doesn't read my posts Bloody sends more love notes my way...bet you wish you had groupies Oleg...but excuse me its time to respond to my favourite groupie:

"But Rue...if this is only a tit-for-tat response, then why do you later (in this post) say I actually am an anti-semite?"

Again your comment is illogical. The fact that I am tatting your tit has no relation to why I have challenged you as an anti-semite. I have challenged you as an anti-semite not because you have tits or titted my tat but because as you have yet again in this response continue to depict the QUIAA as not being anti semitic and support their views. That is the specific context in which I would challenge you and do challenge you as an anti-semite, no matter how hard you try misrepresent the specific context in which I challenged you as being one. The waxing poetic about your tits Bloody is but another example of you trying to avoid the actual words I stated and trying to misquote their context. Par for the course with you.

You stated:

"By your logic, this means either

1) You are, in fact, a homophobe, and you perceive we are accurately impugning each other, or

2) You want it both ways here, in a desperate attempt to "win" the debate."

Not its not my logic, its your subjective opinion restated as if it is the conclusion to what I stated. It is not. It is simply your subjective opinion. Its not my opinion or the point I made-it is yet another example of you mistating what I said and trying to give it a different meaning.

What I did state and will repeat again is you have no problems justifying and defending anti-semites by claiming if I challenge them I am against the lifestyle of gay people. On that I challenged you. I have stated if you support the QUIAA's platform it makes you necessarily an anti-semite, and your use of the gay collective identity and gay pride events as a shield to protect them from any criticism and say to criticize their anti-semitism makes me anti gay is a crock.

You stated:

"I suspect it's 2). You don't really think I'm an anti-semite; and that's exactly why you play the card."

Quite frankly I don't really care what you are. I don't think you have the balls to state your actual opinion about Jews. I think you hide behind your failed accusations against me and having turned this into a series of anti-gay allegations against me because you are too cowardly to address the subjects and positions held by the QUIAA as evidenced by this response where you white washed their hatred and then try once again to avoid dealing with them by trying to once again switch focus from their hatred to claiming we should be talking of the issue of freedom of speech. Hey genius the whole point of discussing the hatred of their comments is the point of the issue-whether people with hateful messages should get taxpayers money to spew that hatred. Are there limitations to freedom of speech?

You of course can't answer that. You can't because you haven't a clue how to defend anti-semitism so you of course attack me personally instead. What's the matter Bloody-I won;t go away? Boo.

Oh but wait here comes another lecture from thou to moi:

"You see Rue, if I am wrong about your derision for gay men, my error is plainly based on my misperceptions of your actual words."

Why? Because you say so? Here we go again. You make a pronouncement so it must be so? Lol. No Bloody, your subjective opinion does not automatically be fact because you say so.

You see Bloody, its simply you again pronouncing what you demand must be fact based on one thing-your divine providence. Last time I looked you are just another leftist trendy peacock trying to lecture the world on what it must believe. The world according to Bloody.

So you see Bloody, as long as you lecture what must be, I will be here to tell you that I think if you keep coming to my door to preach and try save me, I am going to chase you and

hound you to hell itself until you get off my phackin lawn and bring your missionary act elsewhere.

You stated:

"Whereas your slur of me as an "anti-semite" is not based on anything I've ever said about Jewish people, in any context."

Again you deliberately misrepresent. I specifically stated if you support the QUIAA who attack Jews, that makes you an anti-semite. No genius, you don't remain pristine and above hatred advocating on behalf of a group that spews hatred about Jews. No your hands are not clean. Your smug support of their anti-semitic platform smears you in their anti-semitism as much as you would love to pretend it doesn't. Then again I expect such an approach from you. Just because you support a bunch of anti-semitic sob's right to preach hatred doesn't make you anti Jew. Oh no not Bloody. Can't possibly be. I mean after all some of your best friends are Jews right bloody...only in this context you call them Zionists. Right suddenly Bloody is a supporter of Zionism and Zionists. Him an anti-semite? Never. Lol.

You state:

"You see the difference? The difference is that you're making it all up out of whole cloth. Just to be a douchebag, along with all the other shivering losers who so promiscuously play the "anti-semite" card."

No I called you out for supporting an anti-semitic group and call you out again now for being such a pathetic coward and trying to argue you can advocate for the right for the QUIAA to preach anti-semitic hatred at public events but it doesn't make you an anti-semite just someone interested in freedom of speech. Save it Bloody. Save that pathetic whining and "who me a bigot" ploy for someone else. You walk like a duck and you fart like a duck.

Oh but wait, after saying you read their platform and found nothing anti-semitic about them you state:

"I said nothing whatsoever about their platform. Not a breath. Only freedom of speech. An offensive notion to you, I gather."

There it is. Let's avoid the content of their speech. Let's pretend. Let's just ignore its contents and selectively only deal with what Bloody says we should deal with. Let's quickly avoid their vile allegations and calls to kill Jews and simply say its their right to say-right Bloody-there will be no discussion on whether freedom of speech is determined by the contents of a message, no not for Bloody-in his world poof we just magically make the hatred disappear and pretend we can discuss freedom of speech without examining the contents of the words. What a phony. What an absolute phony. Freedom of speech does not require examining the merit of the words says Bloody. Right.

You stated:

"Calling your post "incoherent is not "name calling," little Rue. It's reportage."

Yes and the above comment is evidence of how witty you are. Wait let's all giggle, you me, Oleg and Shwa...all together now.. teee hee hee reportage....tee hee hee

Oh but wait, for someone who dismissed all my words as coherent you then say:

"So....you're saying that a few coherent sentences I managed to decipher within your rambling, incoherent missive determines that the whole thing must be coherent?"

Actually no..but they do make it clear you name call, are selective, and contradict yourself.

You stated"

"That's not a coherent argument."

It couldn't be any clearer-you just proved you are selective, petty, and contradictory and I suppose think you are engaging in reportage...tee hee hee...

Oh wait but here is the one I was waiting for and I trust if Oleg did just once in his life appreciate wine he would have attempted to get to the part of the bottle where we hear you say:

"I don't hate anyone."

Now how else to better proof you are a sanctimonious, holier then thou, two faced, presumptious, arrogant, full of himself, self proclaimed saint then those words! Lol. Out they spewed. You hate anyone? No not you! Saint Bloody hate anyone?

Oh but wait, here's some more examples of how Bloody stands up for what he says and backs up his words and never weasels and back steps because he can't back up with my words what he accuses me of having written:

"That's exactly it. I don't need to produce them, because finally we've reached a point of precise agreement."

How pathetic. You don't need to? You start off attacking me and making allegations I hate gays and then when asked to produce the words you don't need to because I agree with you? Lol. Man talk about smeering oneself with vasoline to slime out of a position. Lol.

Oh but wait, here's another false allegation by you just in case you ran out of others:

"But you are now not only calling people who disagree with Zionism "anti-semites"; you are calling me, who is not opposed to Zionism, an anti-semite. Don't you understand this point?"

I do but clearly you don't. Whether you yourself agree with Zionism or not does not automatically make you pristeen and beyond challenge. I will say it again. I have repeated on this forum many times that I have never stated contrary to your misrepresentations that someone is anti-semitic merely because they are or are not anti-Zionist. What a stupid thing to suggest I said. Its stupid given the no. of posts where I have stated the contrary.

In this series of responses to you I have repeated over and over again to each time you misrepresent my position that I accused you of anti-semitism not because you are or are not Zionist but because you champion the cause of the QUIAA whose platform and message is full of hatred against Jews and if you support that message no you can't have it both ways and say, oh but I like Jews, I just think its a freedom of speech issue. Its not Jews I hate I just think people should be able to attack and call for the death of Jews in public and then if someone like you challenges them I should be able to call you a homophobe.

You stated:

"Like I said, you're making it up...simply because you're pissed off."

..And like I said above, you are a two faced hypocrate for thinking you can advocate and defend anti-semites and then come on this board and say you are not one and then go further and have the audacity to spew out you hate no one. Saint Bloody.

You stated again (and its interesting considering you accuse me of rambling why it is actually you repeating the same few points over and over)that:

"Whether or not their platform "attacks all Jews"--a highly dubious claim--I will repeat, so you might finally comprehend it: it is not about my "supporting their platform." That's not even relevant. I support the right of Holocaust deniers to screech their filth; I support the right of reactionary rightists to tell us we should adopt fascism; I support the right of Henry Kissinger to speak in public, and he's uncontroversially a war criminal.

But QAIA?.....Now I'm just going too far!"

You once again deliberately mis-state the issue. The issue was never whether they should have an arena to spew their hatred. It was whether they should have the right to be funded by the municipal government to spew this hatred and whether they have the right to use an invent that is supposed to be inclusive of Jewish gays to single them out and preach hatred of them. It is about time and place. It was never about freedom of speech and for you to try switch the topic to suggest it is shows again how you lack any credibility.

If this group wants to spew hatred about Jews then have them do it somewhere where they do not make Jews at a public event feel unwelcome. That is the issue. Its a basic issue of common courtesy all people of any group are entitled to.

As for you again pretending you defend the right for people to hate others and say so publically, the difference between us is unlike you I am not politically correct nor do I give a rat's ass whether you think you are being politically correct-if someone spews hatred about Jews in public or private I will challenge them and if some person such as you with their self righteous holier then thou stuck up moral ass has the audacity to tell me they don't hate and are above hatred and think anyone is free to hate-then I say to you loud and clear-give me a phucking break. No I do not have to be politically proper and put up with some meely mouthed hate monger spewing anti Jewisisms in public. That same freedom of speech applies to me Bloody and I get to stand up, speak up and challenge precisely because you will not tell me I must sit and take it and no my place.

You state:

"You embrace an imaginary victimhood here. Why? Because you're foolish."

No and because you are completely ignorant of Jews, you have no clue and make no effort to understand it is victimhood I reject not embrace. You haven't a clue because you are so busy

telling me what my place is you have no clue you have no right to tell me how I must feel.

Where do you get off telling me I am foolish because I will challenge anti-semitism whereever it rears its ugly head? Where do you get off telling me I can't fight it? Foolish? Spoken like a true sheltered, self-entitled, spoiled, elitist who never has known what it feels like to feel anti-semitism. Par for the course for a jack ass like you who knows no hatred. Not you. You hate no one. You are above people who spit at you right? Its free speech when they spit at you right Bloody-oops until it comes from a Jew like me who tells you to stuff your pretentious lectures up your elitist ass.

"Ye gods."

Oh I aint even started honey buns.

"Take what? My criticisms of your own words, or my disagreements with you on specific matters?"

Why yes, take this Jew telling you to take your sign that says anti-semitism permitted here and shove it up your ass.

"That's not victimizing you, rue."

No its not. I would never allow it that is precisely why I take your lectures and throw them back in your face with contempt. No you don't lecture me on what I feel, when I feel it, how I feel it. You don't tell me what humiliates me as a Jew. The fact you continue to try do so with the above idiotic comment simply proves what an arrogant and ignorant man you are in the name of alleged leftist trendiness and you epitomize the kind of liberalism znd trendy leftism I spit at. Your kind of bigotry couched in political propriety is far more dangerous then when it comes from Oleg whose biases are direct and up front and never hidden.

"If you think a few insults (a method you yourself use regularly, as you admit, totally aside from and before this particular discussion) denotes oppresion of you as a Jewish person...then you need to take care of yoruself, and get away from these debates which drive you around the fucking bend. "

No your insults do not cause me to go around the fucking bend. In fact they are fun fun fun.

"You're sounding like a crazy person."

Ooh now that hurts. Lol. Get a clue fool. I am certifiably nutz and so? Lol. Oooh what an insult. I'm crazy. Lol.

"So Bloodyminded is all about to oppress people through internet debate with a stranger. Devious."

No not at all. Just another snot nosed goy Jewish relations expert lecturing a Jew on anti-semitism and how I should feel about anti-semites. Nothing devious about it. Its kind of annoying but other then that let's not get carried away Bloody.

"You've never heard "fraudulent" used outside a legal context? Ok."

Actually no, because when I hear it used outside its legal context in which it has a vert specific definition, it becomes meaningless because it is used by people like you the same way you use the word "crazy", simply as a name to throw out when you have nothing substantial to debate.

Oh wait I hear some contradictory words:

"I just visited their website."

This coming from someone who earlier told me he knows nothing about their platform..

"I saw a few points with which I disagree:

But I see no anti-semitism."

Well there we go then. After a thorough analysis from Bloody he sees no anti-semitism. Bloody do you ever tire of playing KING BLOODY divine provident figure who declares what truth must be for us all? Save the selective self serving analysis for someone else Bloody-do I look like someone who cares what you think about the QUIAA given you defended them without bothering to find out their platform according to you because it was not part of the issue in dispute and then ooopsy towards the end of your latest response compelled no doubt by guilt decided say maybe you should go to their web site?

Lol. Yah and of course Bloody would now say-gee yah know Rue, maybe what they say is anti-semitic. Right.

Oh but wait, quick let's distance ourselves from their site because we have to discuss its actual content:

"--let me tell you yet again--I see this as a free speech issue."

And finally what would a response be without a comment about your tag team partner:

"Shwa is more than capable of demolishing your inane ideas all by his lonesome."

Shwa is still trying to find out where Miami is on his map. I told him to find out what a Jew looks like. He confuses Jew birds with Snow birds and Quebecois and other white people.

We all look the same to him. As far as he is concerned we all came off the same boat you know. Explaining to him what your ancestors thought of mine is a bit too complex for him to handle at this point.He's still working on why white peoples' lips are so small.

TL;DR

[Rue]

http://www.cpcca.ca/gladstone.pdf

The above is the original position presented by M. Gladstone to this issue.

[Rue]

Gee I guess in Bloody's analysis of the QUIAA website he skipped over this:

Israel is a country founded on the idea of different rights for different people, based on race. The first difference is that Jews, wherever they live, have the right to “return” to Israel, but the Palestinians who were expelled from their homes in 1948 do not have this right; in fact, they are explicitly denied Israeli citizenship, and denied the right to return to their homes. This is racist."

The above passage is a classic example of fusing a falsehood as to how Zionism defends the Jewish identity in a context to suggest ANY Jew who is a Zionist is a racist. That is classic anti-semitism. It engages in hatred of Jews who choose to define themselves as a National group as racists. Our definition of being Jewish is not about race.

This justifies hating not just Israeli Jews, but all kinds of other Jews who believe Jews should have the right to universal sufferage.

[Rue]

Thge web site also produces this classic case of historic mistatement about the treatment of Jews:

"ISN’T THIS AN ANCIENT RELIGIOUS CONFLICT BETWEEN JEWS AND MUSLIMS?

No. In the Ottoman Empire in the centuries prior to the 19th century, there was official discrimination against non-Muslims in the form of the dhimmi and millet systems, but Muslims, Christians, Jews, and others coexisted for long periods, largely without violent conflict."

Historically there was always violence against Jews in the Middle East. To suggest there wasn't is a bold faced lie.

To suggest dhmmi and millet systems are not a major reason for anti-semitism and cleanse it with the above false reference to pretend dhimi and millet systems did not promote anti-semitism and institutionalize it and still do is a joke.

Sharia law and the dhimmi and millet systems are all about anti-semitism. They are a specific reason Arab peoples who are mostly Muslim did not want a Jewish state-its deeply related to their religious beliefs promoted through lack of seperation between Muslim religion and state (sharia law) and how Jews are still defined to this day as infidel not worthy of a nation or their own land or legal rights.

In Sharia law nations to this day, Jews are considered so unworthy they need a Muslim to speak on their behalf as a witness since we are all considered incapable of telling the truth.

To white wash the anti-semitism of the Middle East with the above statement is the tip of the ice berg. When one follows the groups listed on this web site the hate literature soon emerges as well through these affiliated groups.

[Rue]

Here since I am being attacked personally for my views, let us make it clear I am not the issue. Here is the same position I have stated from a gay Israeli:

An Open Letter to the Toronto community from a Gay Israeli

As a gay Israeli, I am appalled by the efforts of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid [QuAIA] to hijack Pride Toronto’s annual celebration for their anti-Israel political agenda. Their false accusation of 'Apartheid' is used to incite prejudice and hatred against Israel. Singling out one national group and demonizing it is discriminatory and violates the very principles of Pride, such as equality and acceptance. More appallingly, QuAIA has singled out a country that has one of the most progressive records in the world on gay rights. This should be praised, not dismissed or maligned.

As a homosexual who proudly and openly served in my country’s military, I feel compelled to set the record straight. I know first-hand how accepting Israel and the IDF are of all sexual orientations.

Israel provides a safe society for LGBT people who enjoy respect and equality. Gay marriages are recognized. Homosexual couples register as joint parents for their children. Discrimination based on sexual orientation is banned. Foreigners in same-sex couples are granted visas because of their relationships. Openly gay Israelis serve in our parliament and civil and foreign services. Since 1993, Israel’s military has allowed soldiers of all sexual orientations to serve openly and in all posts. And we aren’t just allowed to serve: we find a warm reception and such a safe environment that it is common for young soldiers to come out of the closet for the first time during their service.

Israel is a safe haven for Palestinian homosexuals. Israel grants refugee status to LGBT Palestinians who face severe persecution from the Palestinian Authority’s security forces and from terrorists who demand that they become suicide ‘martyrs’ to overcome moral guilt about their homosexuality. Israel also is a haven for other LGBT refugees fleeing persecution in the surrounding Arab countries. Israel is a palace of safety in the Middle East where intolerance of LGBTs is rampant.

Israel does not practice Apartheid, and to say so is to misrepresent the country. Israel is certainly not perfect. There is no perfect country, which is why ‘Utopia’ means 'nowhere'. But we are a pluralistic, democratic society that continually works to live up to ideals of inclusiveness. We are committed to finding a way to coexist peacefully with our Palestinian neighbors. Our rightful pride in our LGBT record should not be negated by the ongoing difficulties in reaching a peace agreement.

Pride Toronto is a celebration of acceptance, equality, and togetherness. There is no place for hate. QuAIA does not appreciate the sense of community and joy that accompanies every Pride celebration from Sydney to Tel Aviv to Toronto. The LGBT community comes together to celebrate our shared history and our desire for further progress. Hateful distortions have no place in the festivities of Toronto’s Pride Week.

Sincerely,

Yossi Herzog

Yossi is currently a student at Tel Aviv University.

source:http://www.standwithus.com/app/inews/view_n.asp?ID=1871

[Black Dog]

To paraphrase Rue's last few posts: criticizing a set of state policies or religious beliefs is racist and tantamount to spreading hate, unless it's about Islam/Arabs/Muslims in which case, give'r.

[bloodyminded]

The waxing poetic about your tits Bloody is but another example of you trying to avoid the actual words I stated and trying to misquote their context. Par for the course with you.

look, if you don't even understand coomon English expressions like "tit-for-tat," and misread them as something else...well, that's not my fault. It's isn't the Oppressor Goys and the Evil Gays who make you uneducated.

Hey genius the whole point of discussing the hatred of their comments is the point of the issue-whether people with hateful messages should get taxpayers money to spew that hatred.

They aren't spouting hatred. You are.

No one is more paranoid about theft than a chronic thief.

(That's an analogical metaphor, Rue, lest you take your usual sorry track of taking it literally, thus misunderstanding the whole point.)

You of course can't answer that. You can't because you haven't a clue how to defend anti-semitism

Certainly I have no clue how to defend anti-semitism, nor would I wish to do so, and nor do I understand why anyone would.

Since you are almost certainly an anti-semite, Rue, perhaps you can explain it?

Here we go again. You make a pronouncement so it must be so? Lol. No Bloody, your subjective opinion does not automatically be fact because you say so.

That sounds like you just made a pronouncement and so think it must be so.

You see Bloody, its simply you again pronouncing what you demand must be fact based on one thing-your divine providence. Last time I looked you are just another leftist trendy peacock trying to lecture the world on what it must believe. The world according to Bloody.

Ah. You don't offer opinions, and tell other people that you think they're wrong, and base this on your knowledge and beliefs about the world. I see.

Again you deliberately misrepresent. I specifically stated if you support the QUIAA who attack Jews, that makes you an anti-semite.

Then how do you explain that you oppose this group, and yet remain an anti-semite yourself? there must be criteria which you're missing here. You haven't thought things through.

Oh but wait, after saying you read their platform and found nothing anti-semitic about them you state:

"I said nothing whatsoever about their platform. Not a breath.

Wrong. I said that before I said I read their platform (which I read while writing my resposne to you).

You can't even get the basic timelines right, Rue. "After" and "before" are two different things. There's your first lesson.

There it is. Let's avoid the content of their speech.

You don't understand the concept of freedom of speech, do you? Freeodm of speech is not premised on whether or not you disagree with the content.

If you think so, it means you do not agree with freedom of speech.

Let's pretend. Let's just ignore its contents and selectively only deal with what Bloody says we should deal with. Let's quickly avoid their vile allegations and calls to kill Jews

Cite that, rue old fella. Cite where QAIA "call to kill Jews."

It's a direct challenge. If you can't cite it, you're admitting (finally) to being a liar.

Oh wait but here is the one I was waiting for and I trust if Oleg did just once in his life appreciate wine he would have attempted to get to the part of the bottle where we hear you say:

"I don't hate anyone."

Now how else to better proof you are a sanctimonious, holier then thou, two faced, presumptious, arrogant, full of himself, self proclaimed saint then those words! Lol. Out they spewed. You hate anyone? No not you! Saint Bloody hate anyone?

So..my informing you that I don't hate anyone (including, most certainly, yourself) is really offensive to you?

Why? It's the truth. Should I be apologizing for not hating anyone?

This is a new one!

I will say it again. I have repeated on this forum many times that I have never stated contrary to your misrepresentations that someone is anti-semitic merely because they are or are not anti-Zionist.

No. You will state that someone is antisemitic based on precisely nothing, nothing at all. That's far worse, Rue.

And hypocritical, since you're the one who hates Jews.

. Its not Jews I hate I just think people should be able to attack and call for the death of Jews in public and then if someone like you challenges them I should be able to call you a homophobe.

Again, where are the calls "for the death of Jews"? You keep asserting it, so you must be able to back it up.

As for you again pretending you defend the right for people to hate others and say so publically, the difference between us is unlike you I am not politically correct

On the contrary, you're profoundly beset by political correctness. That's why you keep screeching moralistic pieties.

has the audacity to tell me they don't hate and are above hatred

Wow. I'm surprised that the fact I don't hate anyone has gotten you so riled up! Some people might even see such a thing as a good trait. It makes life better, I can tell you that much for sure.

No and because you are completely ignorant of Jews, you have no clue and make no effort to understand it is victimhood I reject not embrace.

Right....my victimizing of you. Good on you to stand up against such terrible oppression!

Where do you get off telling me I am foolish because I will challenge anti-semitism whereever it rears its ugly head?

You don't. You invent it where it doesn't exist.

Where do you get off telling me I can't fight it?

No, I think you should fight it. Where it exists.

Making it up and then fighting the strawman is counterproductive. That's why I think you're an anti-semite, trying to undermine a very important cause...fighting real antisemitism.

Spoken like a true sheltered, self-entitled, spoiled, elitist

You nothing whatsoever of my life. I can tell you it has been quite different from whatever fantasy you've concocted.

who never has known what it feels like to feel anti-semitism.

This coming from a man who invents it where it doesn't exist.

Not you. You hate no one.

We already agree on this point, so there's no need to keep insisting upon it.

Oh I aint even started honey buns.

Finally you say something nice. thnak you. Rue.

The fact you continue to try do so with the above idiotic comment simply proves what an arrogant and ignorant man you are in the name of alleged leftist trendiness and you epitomize the kind of liberalism znd trendy leftism I spit at.

"The Left! The Left!"

Don't you shivering reactionaries have any othr obssessions?

No not at all. Just another snot nosed goy Jewish relations expert lecturing a Jew on anti-semitism and how I should feel about anti-semites.

Right. so when you make slurs about me, personally, I should sit back and take it from the whiny little victim, because, hey man, it's how you feel.

Actually no, because when I hear it used outside its legal context in which it has a vert specific definition, it becomes meaningless because it is used by people like you the same way you use the word "crazy", simply as a name to throw out when you have nothing substantial to debate.

Check out a dictionary, then. "Fraudulent." It's a real word. Or maybe you know dictionaries are anti-semitic, leftist tools of oppression?

Oh wait I hear some contradictory words:

"I just visited their website."

This coming from someone who earlier told me he knows nothing about their platform.

Ah. the word "just" in "just visited" really confused you. It's a difficult concept.

You see, I checked out the website while I was writing my post.

Then I cam back to the post and wrote, "I just visited their website."

That clear it up for you? I mean, anyone else would have understood instantly....

.

"I saw a few points with which I disagree:

But I see no anti-semitism."

Well there we go then. After a thorough analysis from Bloody he sees no anti-semitism.

I notice you carefully refrain my posting any of the alleged "antisemitism," Rue. Why, isn't that interesting.

Please, enlighten us. I humbly request that you start with the worst of it: the part where they say people should "kill Jews."

You can cite this, can't you? I mean, you're not dishonest, surely???

Lol. Yah and of course Bloody would now say-gee yah know Rue, maybe what they say is anti-semitic. Right.

Oh but wait, quick let's distance ourselves from their site because we have to discuss its actual content

Again, by all means, show us the "kill the Jews" stuff from the website. I want you to do it, rue. I'm asking you to do it.

I'd do it myself, but I'm afraid i was unable to find any antisemitic passages...least of all "calls to kill the Jews," as you directly state is in there.

Explaining to him what your ancestors thought of mine is a bit too complex for him to handle at this point.

If by my "ancestors" you mean my British, French, Scottish and Irish forebears, I can't speak specifically to what they felt about Jewish people. That European history is chock full of Jew-hatred is not a controversial assertion, but is obviously true.

Is that why you think I'm an anti-semite? Sins of the Father? Ultimately, that's just Biblical crap, itself bigoted and prejudicail, and i don't buy it.

And anyway, how would it explain your own anti-semitism?

Edited July 5, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Shwa]

Rue has lost her mind.

[bloodyminded]

Rue has lost her mind.

Only apparently; like when Rue posits that I'm an elitist goy trying to oppress Jews.

That is, since I disagree with the notion that I'm an anti-semite, this in itself is evidence of my oppressiveness.

However, such a pitch-perfect tautology is not really evidence that Rue has lost his or her mind. If I really thought so, I'd be compassionate about ther whole mess. No, the truth is that it's a pack of nonsense designed to bait me.

Which is ok, no big deal. But it is what it is.

[Jack Weber]

Only apparently; like when Rue posits that I'm an elitist goy trying to oppress Jews.

Remember when you thought "goy" was'nt derogatory???

[Rue]

To paraphrase Rue's last few posts: criticizing a set of state policies or religious beliefs is racist and tantamount to spreading hate, unless it's about Islam/Arabs/Muslims in which case, give'r.

Yet another pathetic attempt to mistate what I challenged you on and have been presenting as my counter position.

[Rue]

Remember when you thought "goy" was'nt derogatory???

He forgets a lot of things. Goys can do that.

(that's a burka on that face)

Goy is yiddish and singular for one who lives outside the ghetto.

In this case I could have referred to him as gentile but goy get's

him all upset at the fact he shits white bread.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Rue

[Rue]

TL;DR

UM;DUH

Edited July 6, 2011 by Rue

[Black Dog]

Yet another pathetic attempt to mistate what I challenged you on and have been presenting as my counter position.

You've been presenting a garbled mess of ad hominems, personal attacks, lame attempts at humour and mangled syntax. Maybe there's a real argument or point in there somewhere, but you've made it impossible to discern and no one wants to sift through 400 pounds of shit to find a penny.

[bloodyminded]

It doesn't bother me if you call me a goy, Rue. And what it has to do with paranoia, "liberal" or otherwise, I'm really not sure. I don't quite get the hatred for everything to the Left of Pinochet, frankly, but of course life goes on.

No, the reason I am revisiting this discussion after mounds of fruitless posts is to tell you I am quite willing, even happy, to be wrong about what I perceived as your homophobia. That it made you angry makes me rethink it. (Why would you object to being termed a homophobe if you were one? Anyway.)

However, I restate that you're 100%, dead wrong about my antisemitism. I hope and trust you're adult enough to agree that, during a fairly petty war of the words on both our parts, you overstepped the bounds on this single point, and that it's best to assume a person is not bigoted, until they offer something that removes doubt and suggests the contrary.

Peace.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Rue]

Rue has lost her mind.

Shwa referring to me as a woman to get a tee hee only shows what we both know, you are insecure about your own sexuality. Referring to be as a woman may to you be an insult that makes you a giggle but in my world I don't have a problem with woman as equals.

Shwa keep up the giggles. You simply show what you are all about and Shwa there are plenty of boys like you giggling at the sight of women's tits. Grow up.

[Rue]

You've been presenting a garbled mess of ad hominems, personal attacks, lame attempts at humour and mangled syntax. Maybe there's a real argument or point in there somewhere, but you've made it impossible to discern and no one wants to sift through 400 pounds of shit to find a penny.

Oh look the third muskateer rides in to save his bosom buddies of leftist propriety from the onslaught of the garbled Jew. Lol.

You sure told me. Boy I sure know my place now Bwana.