American Decline

[pinko]

The following rankings come from various lists, but they all tell the same story. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), our 15-year-olds rank 17th in the world in science and 25th in math. We rank 12th among developed countries in college graduation (down from No. 1 for decades). We come in 79th in elementary-school enrollment. Our infrastructure is ranked 23rd in the world, well behind that of every other major advanced economy. American health numbers are stunning for a rich country: based on studies by the OECD and the World Health Organization, we're 27th in life expectancy, 18th in diabetes and first in obesity. Only a few decades ago, the U.S. stood tall in such rankings. No more. There are some areas in which we are still clearly No. 1, but they're not ones we usually brag about. We have the most guns. We have the most crime among rich countries. And, of course, we have by far the largest amount of debt in the world.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2056610,00.html#ixzz1FusyYjHo

Do you feel the American model of governance is broken?

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you feel the American model of governance is broken?

Nope....it's the exact form of "governance" in place when America led in many of the same categories described. School enrollments are impacted by more choices, not government policies. Post secondary educational institutions in America are consistently among the highest ranking in the world, attracting students from many different nations. America is about choices and opportunity...not OECD rankings.

Edited March 7, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Shwa]

The following rankings come from various lists, but they all tell the same story. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), our 15-year-olds rank 17th in the world in science and 25th in math. We rank 12th among developed countries in college graduation (down from No. 1 for decades). We come in 79th in elementary-school enrollment. Our infrastructure is ranked 23rd in the world, well behind that of every other major advanced economy. American health numbers are stunning for a rich country: based on studies by the OECD and the World Health Organization, we're 27th in life expectancy, 18th in diabetes and first in obesity. Only a few decades ago, the U.S. stood tall in such rankings. No more. There are some areas in which we are still clearly No. 1, but they're not ones we usually brag about. We have the most guns. We have the most crime among rich countries. And, of course, we have by far the largest amount of debt in the world.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2056610,00.html#ixzz1FusyYjHo

Do you feel the American model of governance is broken?

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Pinko, you say "we" and "our" in your post yet your location says you are from Winnipeg. Are you an American immigrant or something? Just curious.

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[bush_cheney2004]

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Pinko, you say "we" and "our" in your post yet your location says you are from Winnipeg. Are you an American immigrant or something? Just curious.

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Not his intention.....it was a direct copy and paste from the (American) link....this poster's style.

[Oleg Bach]

The primary cause of the decline is the deslovement of honour...it use to be that American foreign policy was based on good and accurate information...Now that the CIA and others have lied to and betrayed their best friends and sources of information...NO ONE wants to talk to them --- they have blown the trust factor with has literaly made America blind globally.

[pinko]

<SIDEBAR>

Pinko, you say "we" and "our" in your post yet your location says you are from Winnipeg. Are you an American immigrant or something? Just curious.

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I am a Canadian citizen born and raised in Winnipeg. So no I am not an American immigrant.

[Oleg Bach]

I am a Canadian citizen born and raised in Winnipeg. So no I am not an American immigrant.

No such thing as an American immigrant providing that American is white.

[Shwa]

I am a Canadian citizen born and raised in Winnipeg. So no I am not an American immigrant.

Ah, it was a cut and paste. If you quote an article could you use the quote function on the toolbar please? When it is unquoted, it makes it look like you are speaking and that alters the content of the message. Just a suggestion, thanks!

[wyly]

Ah, it was a cut and paste. If you quote an article could you use the quote function on the toolbar please? When it is unquoted, it makes it look like you are speaking and that alters the content of the message. Just a suggestion, thanks!

yup and the link doesn't work either...

[GostHacked]

American governance is not broken, however the people running the government are definitely broken.

[blueblood]

Fareed zakaria had a special last night discussing this. Its not necessarily decline as it is the rest of the world catching up.

That show was good enough to make the tivo.

[Shady]

The education gap is due to several decades of the Teacher Union regime.

[bush_cheney2004]

Fareed zakaria had a special last night discussing this. Its not necessarily decline as it is the rest of the world catching up.

That show was good enough to make the tivo.

That is a very good point. America has been exported for over 50 years. Just count the countries with the most Nobel Prizes:

#1 United States – 270:

This should come as no surprise, since they do have the best researchers and institutes. However what is surprising is that they are losing their share over the years. During the 1960s they had the maximum number of Nobel Prize Winners, but now their share is just over 50%. It may be proof only of the fact that other countries are beginning to get ahead in the field of science and literature.

http://top-10-list.org/2011/02/20/the-most-nobel-prize-winners-countries/

[Shady]

[blueblood]

That is a very good point. America has been exported for over 50 years. Just count the countries with the most Nobel Prizes:

#1 United States – 270:

This should come as no surprise, since they do have the best researchers and institutes. However what is surprising is that they are losing their share over the years. During the 1960s they had the maximum number of Nobel Prize Winners, but now their share is just over 50%. It may be proof only of the fact that other countries are beginning to get ahead in the field of science and literature.

http://top-10-list.org/2011/02/20/the-most-nobel-prize-winners-countries/

Which in turn results in good time charlie for business owners with ties to those emerging markets. Nothing wrong with getting returns of 60 percent! _USA businesses are propping up the stock market because of their exposure to those emerging markets. I think there is a financial illiteracy problem in canada and the usa.

[bloodyminded]

Which in turn results in good time charlie for business owners with ties to those emerging markets. Nothing wrong with getting returns of 60 percent! _USA businesses are propping up the stock market because of their exposure to those emerging markets. I think there is a financial illiteracy problem in canada and the usa.

Thanks in no small part to men like the one in your sig, who has evinced...well, let's say some profound moral confusion.

If our most popular, go-to financial minds in the popular media are as contradictory and morally confounded as O'Leary--unable even to perform very basic tasks of elementary logic--it's little wonder if there's a "financial illiteracy problem."

"Morality is evil!"

That's our Kevin.

Consider the ramifications of this profoundly weird, imploding logic.

Edited March 7, 2011 by bloodyminded

[blueblood]

Thanks in no small aprt to men like the one in your sig, who has evnced...well, let's say some profound moral confusion.

If our most popular, go-to financial minds in the popular media are as contradictory and morally confounded as O'Leary--unable even to perform very basic tasks of elementary logic--it's little wonder if there's a "financial illiteracy problem."

"Morality is evil!"

That's our Kevin.

Consider the ramifications of this profoundly weird, imploding logic.

Except uncle kevin's financial accumen has resulted in him haing a much larger bank account than either of us!

Not only that, his main income stream these days comes from helping other people get richer.

Oh the immorrallity!!

[bloodyminded]

Except uncle kevin's financial accumen has resulted in him haing a much larger bank account than either of us!

Not only that, his main income stream these days comes from helping other people get richer.

Oh the immorrallity!!

There has also been a...let's say, massive economic and financial downturn; perhaps you've heard about it. It has resulted in a lot of pain for a lot of people (though rarely the very ones primarily responsible for it; we used to hear stories of investors leaping from office windows in 1929; but the truth is that the ground, then as now, is piled with the poor to break their fall).

It is exactly the mentality of the O'Leary's of the world--those who make moral denunciations of morality itself, exposing their mean-spiritedness and lack of logical coherence--that caused this shit to happen.

Edited March 7, 2011 by bloodyminded

[blueblood]

There has also been a...let's say, massive economic and financial downturn; perhaps you've heard about it. It has resulted in a lot of pain for a lot of people (though rarely the very ones primarily responsible for it; we used to hear stories of investors leaping from office windows in 1929; but the truth is that the ground, then as now, is piled with the poor to break their fall).

It is exactly the mentality of the O'Leary's of the world--those who make moral denunciations of morality itself, exposing their mean-spiritedness and lack of logical coherence--that caused this shit to happen.

Nope, it was just a result of economic reality that caused the recession. US workers being too expensive, a foolish housing policy stating that everyone should own a house. What do you expect when people with 30 to 40K per year buying homes over 300K. Its not possible. It was a bubble waiting to pop.

[CANADIEN]

Nope, it was just a result of economic reality that caused the recession. US workers being too expensive, a foolish housing policy stating that everyone should own a house. What do you expect when people with 30 to 40K per year buying homes over 300K. Its not possible. It was a bubble waiting to pop.

Of course, nothing to do with the greed and lack of moral compass amongst the corporate elite growing out of control. Nothing is the fault of the CEO who cuts corners, sign shady deals or invests recklessly. It is all about that most nefarious of evil-doers - the guy who has the AUDACITY to believe that he should be paid a decent wage for his work, along with fair working conditions. How DARE he?

[bloodyminded]

Nope, it was just a result of economic reality that caused the recession. US workers being too expensive, a foolish housing policy stating that everyone should own a house. What do you expect when people with 30 to 40K per year buying homes over 300K. Its not possible. It was a bubble waiting to pop.

It was an intentional corruption of the market for short-term gain through the de-regulation of matters like derivatives. It was also thanks to intentionally false AA and AAA ratings on loans--known to be horsehit--because the ratings agencies are paid more for giving higher ratings! (A direct and unequivocal conflict of interest).

By bundling the loans, these jerkoffs made more money simply by selling more of them.

It was the collusion of government and Big finance, which are utterly inseparable by this point.

And a couple of scapegoats aside, they were rewarded for it.

Watch the film "Inside Job." There is not a single left-wing intellectual or uber-liberal economist offering opinons or platitudes. It's all insiders.

For example, the Chief Economist of Citigroup would thoroughly disagree with your assessment of what Citigroup did. Perhaps you understand Citigroup better than he does.

Well-paid consultants to Lehman Brothers and Fannie May tell us that you're dead wrong about what happened.

Yes, people were tricked, by the banks, into buying houses they couldn't afford...Alan Greenspan himself said that a PhD in math could not possibly comprehend the Terms of Agreement.

But then, Greenspan might be some sort of socialist radical in disguise, I can't say for sure.

And good Godzilla on His Throne, blueblood: did you really say that "it was just a result of economic reality that caused the recession"?

That's like saying "it was just the result of explosives that caused the explosion."

Of course "economic reality" caused the recession!!

What else would? Fairy dust?

Edited March 7, 2011 by bloodyminded

[blueblood]

It was an intentional corruption of the market for short-term gain through the de-regulation of matters like derivatives. It was also thanks to intentionally false AA and AAA ratings on loans--known to be horsehit--because the ratings agencies are paid more for giving higher ratings! (A direct and unequivocal conflict of interest).

By bundling the loans, these jerkoffs made more money simply by selling more of them.

It was the collusion of government and Big finance, which are utterly inseparable by this point.

And a couple of scapegoats aside, they were rewarded for it.

Watch the film "Inside Job." There is not a single left-wing intellectual or uber-liberal economist offering opinons or platitudes. It's all insiders.

For example, the Chief Economist of Citigroup would thoroughly disagree with your assessment of what Citigroup did. Perhaps you understand Citigroup better than he does.

Well-paid consultants to Lehman Brothers and Fannie May tell us that you're dead wrong about what happened.

Yes, people were tricked, by the banks, into buying houses they couldn't afford...Alan Greenspan himself said that a PhD in math could not possibly comprehend the Terms of Agreement.

But then, Greenspan might be some sort of socialist radical in disguise, I can't say for sure.

And good Godzilla on His Throne, blueblood: did you really say that "it was just a result of economic reality that caused the recession"?

That's like saying "it was just the result of explosives that caused the explosion."

Of course "economic reality" caused the recession!!

What else would? Fairy dust?

Buying a house worth more than 5x earnings is a recipe for disaster. With a housing policy that won't discriminate on income like we have in canada, that started the ball rolling. Not only that the banks had to get creative with interest rate agreements because of the risk of lending to people with such low incomes. Which resulted in getting creative with everything else in order to provide returns to bond and shareholders. Once the cashflow dried up from the inability of homeowners to pay, the house of cards came down.

Those people didn't have to buy those houses.

[bloodyminded]

Buying a house worth more than 5x earnings is a recipe for disaster. With a housing policy that won't discriminate on income like we have in canada, that started the ball rolling. Not only that the banks had to get creative with interest rate agreements because of the risk of lending to people with such low incomes. Which resulted in getting creative with everything else in order to provide returns to bond and shareholders. Once the cashflow dried up from the inability of homeowners to pay, the house of cards came down.

Those people didn't have to buy those houses.

So...you're ignoring the meat of my post. And yet, oddly, responding to it.

The banks and the investment firms that were loan buyers did not react to low-income people buying expensive homes; they engineered it.

[Bonam]

Buying a house worth more than 5x earnings is a recipe for disaster.

You think that's a disaster? How about the price of houses in Vancouver which is still in a ridiculous bubble somewhere near an average price of $1 million? That's 20x earnings or more for most people.

[CANADIEN]

So...you're ignoring the meat of my post. And yet, oddly, responding to it.

The banks and the investment firms that were loan buyers did not react to low-income people buying expensive homes; they engineered it.

How dare you blaming the banks, even when some of THEIR top people admit they did wrong?