Should Canada Direct more Efforts into Recruiting European Immigrants

[CANADIEN]

AND YOUR EXACT POINT IS?

My exact point is that you claim that Canada will turn into Africa if let more African immigrants in, and that I am asking for evidence. I am still waiting.

[CANADIEN]

Back to WORLD HOMICIDE RATES.

We wouldn't allow British Comandos (the cause of the problem) either. Only civilians.

Some Asians are more pale than "us". What's your point? BACK TO WORLD HOMICIDE RATES.

They are declining in the USA as well. But compare Canada homicide rate of the 40's 50's and early 60's. Yes, the Happy Days. MUCH lower.

Why ban? Use the SAME yardstick for everyone. Why are "minorities" given slack for example in hiring for police??? Just to have the right QUOTAS?

Nice try. We both know - or at leat I know, that rate crimes (homicides or others) in other countries are not a measure of how an individual immigrant will behave. And that there is much more to what life is anywhere than crime stats. Know, back to actually proving that Canada is turning into Africa.

[Saipan]

My exact point is that you claim that Canada will turn into Africa if let more African immigrants in, and that I am asking for evidence. I am still waiting.

1) I already gave the example of Toronto.

2) And I said why not use the SAME YARDSTICK. WHY QUOTA?

[Michael Hardner]

Hence my premise, Michael. We aren't picking any particular continent! We take what we can get!

So what does that have to do with the original post then ? We're not picking continents now, of course, and the OP says we should - so should we or not ?

[Michael Hardner]

Look AGAIN on the map.

In the list of European countries on Wiki.

How about it? Do Koreans or Japanese ask to be dependent?

Therefore we should allow ASIANS in ?

True, you're not. We helped exterminate Gypsies in the Balkans.

Really ? When ?

[CANADIEN]

1) I already gave the example of Toronto.

Nope, you haven't. Feel free to show me any time where you posted evidence that illetaracy rates, age expectency, crime rates, hunger in Toronto are similar to those in Africa.

2) And I said why not use the SAME YARDSTICK. WHY QUOTA?

Good question, considering that YOU applauded when Scotty suggested not applying the same yardstick to immigrants but rather giving preference to some based on where they come from. I, on the other hand, have made clear that I believe in the same standard (individual capacity to make a living and willingness to obey our laws) should be applied to all immigrants.

So, why is it that YOU applaud when somebody proposes a different yardstick.

(btw, policy recruitement policy are a different topic, but thanks for trying to muddy the waters)

Edited March 6, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Michael Hardner]

You know, it's not like I'm suggesting we should throw open the doors to anyone and everyone who lives in Europe. I'm not saying we should remove our criteria for judging the ability of a new immigrant to succeed here. I'm simply pointing out that using our current criteria, immigrants from certain parts of the world fare far better here than others. And thus we should attempt to get fewer immigrants from those areas which fare poorly, and more from those areas which fare better. What's wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it, except that the OP immediately suggests picking Europeans for some reason. So... we're changing the idea now, I guess.

[Michael Hardner]

1) I already gave the example of Toronto.

An example isn't the same thing as evidence. If you're going to make claims about crime and so on based on country of origin, you should know that many who have done that here in the past have used inflammatory nationalist blogs as evidence, with fabricated or anecdotal basis for their claims.

It's a particular type of bad argument that seems to constantly stick to the immigration discussions here.

[Saipan]

Therefore we should allow ASIANS in ?

Why not?

[Michael Hardner]

Why not?

Ok, so by making an effort "into recruiting Asian immigrants" we would approach Pakistanis, Bangladeshis etc...

[Saipan]

An example isn't the same thing as evidence.

You can split hair till the cows come home.

It's simple really. If we use the SAME YARDSTICK - again and again - there'll be fewer immigrants from Africa and more from Europe and Asia.

If you're going to make claims about crime and so on based on country of origin

I posted STATS. But Lefties very often point to USA without any evidence.

you should know that many who have done that here in the past have used inflammatory nationalist blogs as evidence, with fabricated or anecdotal basis for their claims.

Yes, I do. Mostly anti-Americans.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Saipan

[CANADIEN]

You can split hair till the cows come home.

It's simple really. If we use the SAME YARDSTICK - again and again - there'll be fewer immigrants from Africa and more from Europe and Asia.

So be it. I for one are not obsessed with where our immigrants were born.

This though begs the question - why do YOU applaud when Scotty proposes doing away with having the same yardstick?

[nicky10013]

Hooray for Smears!

It's not a smear. People from many different groups and succeed. People from many different groups come here and fail. Italian and Irish immigrants had horrible times integrating into the economy when they were the largest groups coming here. The notion that gigantic groups as he's suggesting do even marginally better than others I find to be rather ridiculous. Furthermore, whatever happened to the individual responsibility Conservatives here espouse? If certain immigrants resort to crime, isn't that the fault of the individual rather than the entire group that immigrates? Oh right, it only matters when they aren't white.

[Saipan]

So be it. I for one are not obsessed with where our immigrants were born.

Quota supporters are.

This though begs the question - why do YOU applaud when Scotty proposes doing away with having the same yardstick?

Whatever applaud you hear is coming from your kitchen.

[CANADIEN]

Quota supporters are.

Their problem, not mine.

Whatever applaud you hear is coming from your kitchen.

My computer is actually located in another part of my home.

The question still remains, although I will rephrase it. Scotty clearly proposes not having the same yardstick for all potential immigrants - why do YOU support him?

Edited March 6, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Saipan]

Their problem, not mine.

At least we established something.

Scotty clearly proposes not having the same yardstick for all potential immigrants - why do YOU support him?

Do you still beat your wife?

Edited March 6, 2011 by Saipan

[CANADIEN]

At least we established something.

Do you still beat your wife?

Nice try. We both know that Scotty is proposing something that would NOT be an application of the same yardstick to immigrants. And that, when I pointed to a flaw in his argument, you jumped in with claims, which you will not prove, that somehow this country is turning into Africa

Scotty is proposing a quota (namely, European immigrants in, others not). If quotas are wrong, then this one is too, isn't it?

[Locutus]

I think this is a sensitive issue - However it is important to recognize that European emmigration has diminished mainly due to to increasing economic prosperity within the Europe, high health/social benefits, and the relative peacetime within the continent over the last 60 years. European settlers like most immigrants, emmigrated to North America to avoid religious persicution, war etc.

These reasons are no longer there, so its unlikely that you'd see an influx of Europeans like you did back in the day.

N

[CANADIEN]

I think this is a sensitive issue - However it is important to recognize that European emmigration has diminished mainly due to to increasing economic prosperity within the Europe, high health/social benefits, and the relative peacetime within the continent over the last 60 years. European settlers like most immigrants, emmigrated to North America to avoid religious persicution, war etc.

These reasons are no longer there, so its unlikely that you'd see an influx of Europeans like you did back in the day.

N

The worsening of economic conditions in Europe may lead to a small bump in European immigrants wanting to enter Canada. If they fit the criteria, they are as welcome as anybody else as far as I am concerned.

Edited March 6, 2011 by CANADIEN

[SF/PF]

I don't much care where Canada pulls immigrants from in the future, as long as they do a much better job in ensuring that the credentials that they recognize are up to the standards of Canada.

In that regard, other first world nations are going to provide, on average, the best trained and most competent workers.

[Wild Bill]

So what does that have to do with the original post then ? We're not picking continents now, of course, and the OP says we should - so should we or not ?

"Should we or shouldn't we?" The point is moot. Immigrants pick us, we don't necessarily pick where they come from.

My point is that virtually all of the time, we don't have the freedom to choose! We have to take our immigrants from those areas that have people who WANT to come! For the past few decades a policy of choosing immigrants only from Europe would have meant very few immigrants! They were happy where they lived and had no desire to come to Canada.

More simply, I personally feel that we should take the best of all applicants, regardless of where they are coming from. Simply apply our standards and take the best. Which countries supply the most immigrants will tend to vary over the years, according to conditions in their home countries and also, here in Canada! Canada has slipped a lot in ranking among living standards. Our politicians love to use yardsticks like "quality of life" but if you are talking employment rates and living standards we've gone from maybe 5th or 6th when I was a lad down to at least 17th. Countries like Norway are more attractive than Canada for immigrants.

This should be obvious. It's France that has problems with a huge Muslim population, not Canada. Those people could have chosen to come here instead. There must have been something far more attractive to them with countries like France, Italy or Holland.

I find it hard to understand how so many posters in threads like these seem to be assuming that we can pick our immigrants from wherever we want, whether for social engineering reasons or purely economic ones. That's an unproven premise, with a hint of arrogance within it...

Edited March 6, 2011 by Wild Bill

[Bonam]

I find it hard to understand how so many posters in threads like these seem to be assuming that we can pick our immigrants from wherever we want, whether for social engineering reasons or purely economic ones. That's an unproven premise, with a hint of arrogance within it...

There are many more people wanting to immigrate to Canada than we allow to do so. Those people come from all parts of the world. If we prioritized immigration from specific countries, put them at the head of the line, we would get more from those countries and less from others. Of course, there might not be enough from certain countries to fill the 250k+/year that is our present immigration rate, but we could certainly slightly reshape the demographics of incoming immigrants if we wanted to do so.

[CANADIEN]

This should be obvious. It's France that has problems with a huge Muslim population, not Canada. Those people could have chosen to come here instead. There must have been something far more attractive to them with countries like France, Italy or Holland.

Proximity is a starter, plus already nhaving relatives there.

[Wild Bill]

There are many more people wanting to immigrate to Canada than we allow to do so. Those people come from all parts of the world. If we prioritized immigration from specific countries, put them at the head of the line, we would get more from those countries and less from others. Of course, there might not be enough from certain countries to fill the 250k+/year that is our present immigration rate, but we could certainly slightly reshape the demographics of incoming immigrants if we wanted to do so.

"Slightly shift" I could agree with, Bonam but some posters in this thread are implying we should fear huge numbers due to racism.

[nicky10013]

The worsening of economic conditions in Europe may lead to a small bump in European immigrants wanting to enter Canada. If they fit the criteria, they are as welcome as anybody else as far as I am concerned.

I doubt it. The recession in the EU is only marginally worse than it is here and only in certain countries. People who would leave the worse off countries would mostly do so because public benefits are going to be stripped. They also have the freedom to live and work in any other EU state. So, if you see the economic performance and public benefits of a country like Germany as compared to Canada - not even taking in account the comparative costs of moving and the bureaucratic paperwork that they would have to jump through to get to Canada but not to Germany - absolutely no competition.

Edited March 6, 2011 by nicky10013