TTC to become essential service.

[Black Dog]

Slashing bus routes?

NO bus routes are getting canceled. Some routes are having their schedules reduced during off peak times and only if these two criteria are met. 1. They have less then 10 riders per hour and 2. there is an alternate serviced bus stop less then 500m away.

I would hardly call that slashing bus routes.

There's a beautiful irony here when one looks at the big picture where Rob Ford wants to cut service on some lines due to low ridership (a move that will save but a pittance in the grand scheme of things) while championing a transit "plan" that includes building a incredibly expensive subway through an area that lacks the density to support such a mode of transit. A perfect illustration of Ford's incoherence.

I would hardly call that slashing bus routes. The TTC is bleeding money and it cannot keep operating in this manner. Something has to be done. Pouring endless amounts of money into it as we've been doing for the last 50 years just isn't sustainable.

Actually, what the TTC needs is more funding from other orders of government to improve services. Ford himself has acknowledged as much by going cap-in-hand to Queen's Park for TTC subsidies.

Like your hero, you don't have a clue. Your vision is constrained too much by the "evil greedy union" narrative that you can't see the big picture.

[Shady]

Slashing bus routes?

Lying is the only way these anti-Ford radicals will be able to win support. I'm guessing you're gonna hear the terms slashing, gutting, draconian (it's one of their favourites), carving, chopping, gashing, and any other violent metaphors attached to every thing budget related. Even when it isn't the case. Their goal is to destroy Rob Ford. Nothing less will suffice.

[nicky10013]

Lying is the only way these anti-Ford radicals will be able to win support. I'm guessing you're gonna hear the terms slashing, gutting, draconian (it's one of their favourites), carving, chopping, gashing, and any other violent metaphors attached to every thing budget related. Even when it isn't the case. Their goal is to destroy Rob Ford. Nothing less will suffice.

So you're denying that he was going to slash bus service? You're calling me a liar? That is riiiiiich.

[Mr.Canada]

So you're denying that he was going to slash bus service? You're calling me a liar? That is riiiiiich.

Keeping a route service to a route that carries less then 10 passengers an hour doesn't even cover the costs of running those buses on that route, meaning the TTC is losing money each time it runs it. It only makes good business sense to let passengers walk the 500m to the next stop in order to catch a bus instead of bleeding money continuously.

The more money the TTC can save the less often the fares will increase. Toronto deserves a more efficient TTC.

[Oleg Bach]

Privatize everything..why waste time..When a soviet style bureacracy starts going out and spending a thousand bucks on a box of choclolates..Time to clean house...Pulic Housing - Social Serivices....privatize them all! - When I see a welfare reciepient being told they can gain the freedom of mobility and a hundred and ten dollar bus pass _Only if they can set up 20 medical appointments per month - then something is dreadfully wrong - and some are getting rich on this style of socialism.

[CANADIEN]

Let's call what TTC service cuts are, cuts. And in some cases, they are justified. That doesn't mean though, that a route should be reduced or cut just because there are few people using it. Sometimes, this may be the only route servicing a given area - example, the 92 A is the only line servicing the eastern portland. Nothing else nearby. Should services in the evening or week-end be cut because few people is using it, or wouldn't it make more sense to keep offer the service while making it less expensive to provide?

[Mr.Canada]

Let's call what TTC service cuts are, cuts. And in some cases, they are justified. That doesn't mean though, that a route should be reduced or cut just because there are few people using it. Sometimes, this may be the only route servicing a given area - example, the 92 A is the only line servicing the eastern portland. Nothing else nearby. Should services in the evening or week-end be cut because few people is using it, or wouldn't it make more sense to keep offer the service while making it less expensive to provide?

Services are only being reduced to routes meet these two criteria.

1. That have less then 10 people riding it an hour. That means the entire route both ways all buses.

2. Have another bust stop within 500m that is serviced.

If both of these criteria aren't met the service won't be affected. Also the service reductions are only being carried out during non peak hours and holiday/Sunday schedules. So most people who use the route won't be bothered by it.

Too many people are blowing this way out of proportion and being way to alarmist.

[CANADIEN]

Services are only being reduced to routes meet these two criteria.

1. That have less then 10 people riding it an hour. That means the entire route both ways all buses.

2. Have another bust stop within 500m that is serviced.

If both of these criteria aren't met the service won't be affected. Also the service reductions are only being carried out during non peak hours and holiday/Sunday schedules. So most people who use the route won't be bothered by it.

Too many people are blowing this way out of proportion and being way to alarmist.

Perhaps the TTC have to recheck their calculations for some of the routes then. In the example I provided, somebody standing at the corner of Cherry and Commissioners street after 10 pm on winter nights will have to walk about 750 m to the nearest bus stop, in a relatively isolated area of town, including a stint under the Gardiner around the point where it turns into the DVP. I would not recommend it to most people.

As for the "reductions are only in non-rush hours, so it won't affect most people" argument, it doesn't fly. People in toronto should be able to access public transit at a stop located within a reasonable and safe distance, and this at most times.

Edited March 5, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Mr.Canada]

Perhaps the TTC have to recheck their calculations for some of the routes then. In the example I provided, somebody standing at the corner of Cherry and Commissioners street after 10 pm on winter nights will have to walk about 750 m to the nearest bus stop, in a relatively isolated area of town, including a stint under the Gardiner around the point where it turns into the DVP. I would not recommend it to most people.

If this is happening then I'd urge you to contact your local city council representative, I'm sure they would go to bat for you. At the same time I wouldn't expect that a route be kept serviced for one single person who is riding it. That fare won't even pay for the fuel in the bus. Let alone the drivers wages, benefits, maintenance, etc. for each bus running on that line at that time of night.

Plus downtown there is transit everywhere.

As for the "reductions are only in non-rush hours, so it won't affect most people" argument, it doesn't fly. People in toronto should be able to access public transit at a stop located within a reasonable and safe distance, and this at most times.

It simply isn't sustainable. It's a nice idea but it just isn't ideal to continue to lose money forever costing the taxpayer more and more and more.

Edited March 5, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[CANADIEN]

If this is happening then I'd urge you to contact your local city council representative, I'm sure they would go to bat for you. At the same time I wouldn't expect that a route be kept serviced for one single person who is riding it. That fare won't even pay for the fuel in the bus. Let alone the drivers wages, benefits, maintenance, etc. for each bus running on that line at that time of night.

Plus downtown there is transit everywhere.

Actually, I do not live in that part of town. I know just enough of it though to know that once that bus service is no longer available, the walk to the nearest bus stop is quite a bit more than 500 metres. Actually, anyone with knowledge of Toronto geography will know that once this route is gone there will not be buses running everywhere.

It simply isn't sustainable. It's a nice idea but it just isn't ideal to continue to lose money forever costing the taxpayer more and more and more.

But it is sustainable to have people unable to get to or from work in a timely and safe fashions. Nobody is advocating maintaining the current level serices at all cost. But there are economical, sensible solutions that have been adopted elsewhere that could be implemented here. That you and other Fordites won't even consider that they might exist is telling.

One example of such an alternative service delivrey mode is the taxibus concept, first launched in Rimouski, quebec in 1994. Instead of buses, taxis are used for public transist, through a service agreement. This service model costs less to the municipality than buses would, is highly efficient, and as an approval rate of 94%. The model has since been adopted by other municiplalities throughout the country. In Montreal, it has been used in providing services in parts of the island with less transit riders. (info trom the federal government)

[Mr.Canada]

But it is sustainable to have people unable to get to or from work in a timely and safe fashions. Nobody is advocating maintaining the current level serices at all cost. But there are economical, sensible solutions that have been adopted elsewhere that could be implemented here. That you and other Fordites won't even consider that they might exist is telling.

One example of such an alternative service delivrey mode is the taxibus concept, first launched in Rimouski, quebec in 1994. Instead of buses, taxis are used for public transist, through a service agreement. This service model costs less to the municipality than buses would, is highly efficient, and as an approval rate of 94%. The model has since been adopted by other municiplalities throughout the country. In Montreal, it has been used in providing services in parts of the island with less transit riders. (info trom the federal government)

Canadien, not everyone knows everything. I didn't know about this until you posted on it. I think it's a great idea but I don't know if it would be able to be done in such a large metro area like Toronto. Rimouski has about 45,000 people while Toronto has 100 times that so I don't know if this would work. It might be worth looking into. Why not call Mayor Ford. He returns all calls personally, which is amazing for a Mayor, he may not be aware of this although I know he enjoys hearing input from the voting public.

I can guarantee that this idea would be attacked by the transit union. I'd like to see some numbers on such a plan. Any chance to cut out the public sector unions is a good choice to me.

[Jack Weber]

Canadien, not everyone knows everything. I didn't know about this until you posted on it. I think it's a great idea but I don't know if it would be able to be done in such a large metro area like Toronto. Rimouski has about 45,000 people while Toronto has 100 times that so I don't know if this would work. It might be worth looking into. Why not call Mayor Ford. He returns all calls personally, which is amazing for a Mayor, he may not be aware of this although I know he enjoys hearing input from the voting public.

I can guarantee that this idea would be attacked by the transit union. I'd like to see some numbers on such a plan. Any chance to cut out the public sector unions is a good choice to me.

The Amalgamated Transit Union is a public sector union???

[Mr.Canada]

The Amalgamated Transit Union is a public sector union???

Any union that operates in a vacuum is dangerous to the public purse and needs to have its power reduced.

[William Ashley]

You are quite mistaken it is not for the poorest people in Toronto.. at more than 2$ one way it still isn't "cheap" enough for the "poorest"

For instance those in ontario works with say $400 a month. Say 10 trips on the ttc to and from somewhere works out to 1/10th their income a month.

Say they ride it every weekday that works out to $160 of $440 or so then they have their shelter costs etc. This simply isn't correct in saying it provides.. it isn't FREE.. it it were free it would provided for the poorest people.

Toronto really isn't that big. you can walk most anywhere you need to go within an hour. Its really used most by school kids, and occassionally other people that don't want to walk in inclimant weather - or "younger people" that can't afford a car. - or can't afford to be in a car in toronto due to its horrible light timing and at times deadlock (you can walk faster than you can drive in rushhour) in the downtown. as well as $10-100 hourly parking rates

While it does provide for "poor people" it doesn't provide for the poorest people. It is more of a youth mobility scheme, as well as individuals who work in the core. The Subway really doesn't go anywhere but the core.

Get it straight. Buses serve more of the GTA than rail.

but no I don't think it is an essential service --- it is a commodity. Archaic peoples did ok without steel. not saying steel isn't valued or wouldn't be valued by archaic peoples but people still survived without it. This event is more of a social engineering stance than anything else.

Its more about feeding in the "core" location rather than having traffic put to other more naturally accomodating areas.

Its not going to happen anytime soon but it would be the natural process to migrate demand to other areas to service localized demands rather than creating a greater mobility need to meet demands.

It has happened in toronto but there are still some drives to the core. Part of the problem is overlap of core resources ... such as universities, government, hospitals, and commeical zoning all in the same area, it creates overload. Where if localities were spread out into different zones there would be less need.

Of course, it likes it nuff said. but it isn't the most effective or efficient model.

Edited March 10, 2011 by William Ashley

[Mr.Canada]

William, there are plenty of avenues the poor can use to get a bus pass. Many of the poor should get a job if they need money instead of being in a perpetual state of victim hood.

[CANADIEN]

William, there are plenty of avenues the poor can use to get a bus pass. Many of the poor should get a job if they need money instead of being in a perpetual state of victim hood.

Mr. C., the friend of the poor.