scribblet Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 There is no reason to prosecute them, especially in light of the court ruling, the least they could do is wait for the results of their appeal. If their appeal is lost, what then ! Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
waldo Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I'm sure they will, as EC obviously has an agenda, they can't wait for a decision on their appeal of a ruling in favour of the CPC. The court ruled in their favour so I don't see how they can be charged with anything. Of course, the maggots are feeding off this big time... Yeah, even at the CBC as that maggoty Evan Soloman, Power & Politics guy at CBC News Net, is feeding off it today.There is no reason to prosecute them, especially in light of the court ruling, the least they could do is wait for the results of their appeal. If their appeal is lost, what then ! jeejaz! One has no bearing on the other... in this case, one is criminal, the other is 'regulatory' - it's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Gee... just how does civil prosecution proceed even in the face of the same defendant receiving a not guilty criminal trial ruling? It's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) jeejaz! One has no bearing on the other... in this case, one is criminal, the other is 'regulatory' - it's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Gee... just how does civil prosecution proceed even in the face of the same defendant receiving a not guilty criminal trial ruling? It's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? The whole point of it is to produce a narrative where someone else is at fault. What counts is that the Conservative Party do no wrong. Edited February 27, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 jeejaz! One has no bearing on the other... in this case, one is criminal, the other is 'regulatory' - it's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Gee... just how does civil prosecution proceed even in the face of the same defendant receiving a not guilty criminal trial ruling? It's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Ask O.J.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
scribblet Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 The concept here, is to paint the CPC as black as possible giving the opposition a chance to run with their own narrative. If they continue to push it to the brink of an election, chances are high that it will backfire on them. from the CPC Memo * We are disappointed that Elections Canada filed these administrative charges after losing in federal court and not waiting for the appeal court's decision in that matter. * We are not surprised by the decision to lay administrative charges. These are not criminal charges. Elections Canada has been pushing for these charges for nearly two years. * This is another step in the long-running accounting dispute with Elections Canada - we have been arguing about this for nearly 5 years now. * Our Party plays by the same rules as everyone else. We followed those rules. * Both the Liberals and NDP used regional media buys in the 2006 election; and the Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois all executed fund transfers in both 2004 and 2006 Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
betsy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Of course all the parties do it. But that's not excuse not to prosecute the Tories, it's a reason to come down really bloody hard on all the parties. So why is Election Canada singling out the Tories? Quote
betsy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Yep, nothing new there when it comes to the NDP and their MO... Looking more and more like the NDP will find a way to keep Harper in power at least for another year don't it? Funny thing is that'll mean Harper will REALLY screw Canadians over even more than he's done up till now... Did I say funny? I'll let YOU decide... Yes it was funny....the way the NDP, the Tory...and the Host of the show poked fun at Ignatieff! He doesn't miss any opportunity these days...that Mr Ignatieff. Actually I'm praying for Harper majority! Not because I agree with all of his policies. I'm just plain tired of all the self-serving pontifications and opportunistic time-wasting grandstanding by the Oppositions! Edited February 27, 2011 by betsy Quote
jbg Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 The Thread title should be descriptive and accurate. Hiding these stories behind a vague post title is kind of dishonest don't you think? http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/02/24/elections-canada-charges-conservative-party-campaign-spending.html Sounds like old wine in a new bottle. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
msj Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 So why is Election Canada singling out the Tories? Not to butt in on the "everybody does it" and the conspiracy rapport you two have developed, but ever think that maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the quantity and quality of evidence? Maybe EC has a better case against the Tories because of that evidence? Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
punked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Yep, nothing new there when it comes to the NDP and their MO... Looking more and more like the NDP will find a way to keep Harper in power at least for another year don't it? Funny thing is that'll mean Harper will REALLY screw Canadians over even more than he's done up till now... Did I say funny? I'll let YOU decide... Someone hasn't seen the newest poll have they? Cons 39 Libs 23 NDP 20 Quote
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 The concept here, is to paint the CPC as black as possible giving the opposition a chance to run with their own narrative. If they continue to push it to the brink of an election, chances are high that it will backfire on them. from the CPC Memo * We are disappointed that Elections Canada filed these administrative charges after losing in federal court and not waiting for the appeal court's decision in that matter. * We are not surprised by the decision to lay administrative charges. These are not criminal charges. Elections Canada has been pushing for these charges for nearly two years. * This is another step in the long-running accounting dispute with Elections Canada - we have been arguing about this for nearly 5 years now. * Our Party plays by the same rules as everyone else. We followed those rules. * Both the Liberals and NDP used regional media buys in the 2006 election; and the Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois all executed fund transfers in both 2004 and 2006 Ahhh, yes, when CAUGHT doing something WRONG the CONS always resort to a "supposed" and NEVER varified "two wrongs make a right" argument... Kinda shameful really and a clear admission of GUILT the way I and most clear thinking people will see it... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Someone hasn't seen the newest poll have they? Cons 39 Libs 23 NDP 20 Go for it! (IF Layton will let you... ) Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Go for it! (IF Layton will let you... ) This poll is different though: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/02/23/ekos-poll.html Quote
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 This poll is different though: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/02/23/ekos-poll.html The TRUTH of the matter is that NO poll taken prior to the writ being drop will have any real significance right now... The REASON for that being what's happening in Canada's provinces, in partucular Ontario, Quebec, and BC, but other provinces too... For the most part the Canadian general public is simply politically stupid... ie - A polster calls someone in Ontario with a POLL... - the person answers his questions about "who will they vote in the next Federal Election" vailed in whatever form polsters do, but all that "pops" into the voters mind is his anger over the HST which is costing him/her more money in his daily life... - whoopee he says I have a chance to express my opinion and get my frustrations out AGAINST those damn Liberals that brought in the HST... That's just the way it is in Canada... Always has been... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
punked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) The TRUTH of the matter is that NO poll taken prior to the writ being drop will have any real significance right now... The REASON for that being what's happening in Canada's provinces, in partucular Ontario, Quebec, and BC, but other provinces too... For the most part the Canadian general public is simply politically stupid... ie - A polster calls someone in Ontario with a POLL... - the person answers his questions about "who will they vote in the next Federal Election" vailed in whatever form polsters do, but all that "pops" into the voters mind is his anger over the HST which is costing him/her more money in his daily life... - whoopee he says I have a chance to express my opinion and get my frustrations out AGAINST those damn Liberals that brought in the HST... That's just the way it is in Canada... Always has been... Actually all the polls last election before the writ being dropped were 3%+/- of the actual election results so maybe you are wrong. Although the 2006 election was a different story with the sponsorship scandal maybe the Liberals are sitting on a Sponsorship scandal although I some how doubt that. No matter how stupid you think Canadians are I think they stick with their opinion until someone gives them a reason to change it. Right now the Liberals got no reason. They don't offer alternatives they have no easy answer. Even yourself on here you hammer this line "Who wants to spend 20 Billion on planes........" however that isn't the Liberal line. The Liberal line is "We don't think spending 20 billion on planes is a good idea with out shopping around like we did for helicopters in the 90s which cost us an extra Billion...We aren't saying this contract is bad we are saying we MIGHT be able to get a better deal." That aint going to play well in a debate. Edited February 27, 2011 by punked Quote
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Actually all the polls last election before the writ being dropped were 3%+/- of the actual election results so maybe you are wrong. Although the 2006 election was a different story with the sponsorship scandal maybe the Liberals are sitting on a Sponsorship scandal although I some how doubt that. No matter how stupid you think Canadians are I think they stick with their opinion until someone gives them a reason to change it. Right now the Liberals got no reason. They don't offer alternatives they have no easy answer. Even yourself on here you hammer this line "Who wants to spend 20 Billion on planes........" however that isn't the Liberal line. The Liberal line is "We don't think spending 20 billion on planes is a good idea with out shopping around like we did for helicopters in the 90s which cost us an extra Billion...We aren't saying this contract is bad we are saying we MIGHT be able to get a better deal." That aint going to play well in a debate. I'm not saying you or I are right or wrong about anything... All I'm saying is that ANY poll or election are based on a whole lot of variables that don't come into play until a writ is dropped and Canadians start paying attention... Until then, who cares? 1 to maybe 5% (at the most) of Canadians that are "into" politics, that's about it... btw - The fact that Canadians buy into "background noise" like the "Sponsorship Scandal" that had NOTHING at all to do with a "CURRENT" (past vs future) election proves my point about how "politically stupid" Canadians really are... Realizing that, which the CONS are better at than "the LEFT" is what, if anything, makes a difference to election outcomes... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 So why is Election Canada singling out the Tories? It's not hard to see, Betsy! The Tories did their campaign funding reporting to Elections Canada according to one interpretation of the rules. If you google up the rules and wade through them you can see how an argument could be made that they were in the right. Elections Canada disputed their accounting, however. They disallowed a big portion of the deductions and found that THEIR interpretation showed the Tories had broken the rules in how they transferred monies from the Party Campaign HQ and the accounts of some individual ridings. The Tories refused to accept EC's verdict and basically said "Take us to court!". EC obliged! The court sided with the Tories! This put EC's nose out of joint. They weren't used to being defied. They immediately launched an appeal. Why not? They have access to all our tax money so they didn't have to care how much it cost them! So the case is under appeal, but meanwhile EC is still bitchin'! And of course, the Opposition is using the situation to throw crap on the Tories. It should be noted that charges under the Elections Canada Act are NOT criminal charges! Of course, that's not going to slow down the Opposition critics any... It's not much of a scandal but hey, the Tories don't offer much in the way of scandals. Not because they are that much more honest than the other guys (although they've never actually stolen from taxpayers like the Liberal Party did with AdScam) but just because they are BORING! All Canadian political scandals are boring but the Tory ones always seem to be the MOST boring! Like having your weekend party planned by accountants. Even the Maxime Bernier scandal was just a tempest in a D cup... The Opposition parties will take whatever scandal they can get. Might not be much meat on the bones but it's all they've got and besides, if they can dig up enough of even little ones maybe it will help make voters forget some of their own BIG ones! This is why most voters aren't paying attention, Betsy. It's obviously not a criminal case but a difference of opinion of the rulebook. Eventually a court will decide who is right and who is wrong. The Tories don't need to care. They will either be vindicated or they will be able to rightfully claim it was an honest mistake. Lord knows they have enough money to pay any fines! Why couldn't Canada have some real juicy scandals, like that Italian PM? Somehow, I just can't see Harper in those shoes. If he WERE to wear those shoes, they would likely be just a pair of brown loafers and the women involved would not be underaged sex stars but more likely middle-aged accountants... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Topaz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 In th last election also, Dion was the leader and this time its Michael and he knows how to debate and this time I think Harper is going to have be on his toes. More Canadians watch the debates because they are too busines with life to know what is happening everyday in Ottawa. Harper going to press do you want a Tory majority or a coalition? Well, a coalition has 3 different parties with ideas and more votes were the Tories only have Tories. Quote
capricorn Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) In th last election also, Dion was the leader and this time its Michael and he knows how to debate Since we're off topic, a trip down memory lane, clips from the October 2008 English leaders debate. Harper going to press do you want a Tory majority or a coalition? I certainly hope so. Edited February 27, 2011 by capricorn Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
scribblet Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 ---- So the case is under appeal, but meanwhile EC is still bitchin'! And of course, the Opposition is using the situation to throw crap on the Tories. It should be noted that charges under the Elections Canada Act are NOT criminal charges! Of course, that's not going to slow down the Opposition critics any... It's not much of a scandal but hey, the Tories don't offer much in the way of scandals. Not because they are that much more honest than the other guys (although they've never actually stolen from taxpayers like the Liberal Party did with AdScam) but just because they are BORING! All Canadian political scandals are boring but the Tory ones always seem to be the MOST boring! Like having your weekend party planned by accountants. Even the Maxime Bernier scandal was just a tempest in a D cup... The Opposition parties will take whatever scandal they can get. Might not be much meat on the bones but it's all they've got and besides, if they can dig up enough of even little ones maybe it will help make voters forget some of their own BIG ones! Excellent post WB ! Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
punked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying you or I are right or wrong about anything... All I'm saying is that ANY poll or election are based on a whole lot of variables that don't come into play until a writ is dropped and Canadians start paying attention... Until then, who cares? 1 to maybe 5% (at the most) of Canadians that are "into" politics, that's about it... btw - The fact that Canadians buy into "background noise" like the "Sponsorship Scandal" that had NOTHING at all to do with a "CURRENT" (past vs future) election proves my point about how "politically stupid" Canadians really are... Realizing that, which the CONS are better at than "the LEFT" is what, if anything, makes a difference to election outcomes... See here is your problem. Your assumption is that Canadians "don't care" outside of elections but "do care" during them. I think Canadians care as much outside election as during elections and that the ones not paying attention do not pay attention during elections unless there is an issue to make them care. Right now no one has that issue. So people will go to the polls just like in 2008 and vote the same way they were going to vote on September 1st before the last election as they did in October during the election. There are no fireworks yet, maybe there will be but I don't know. I don't see anyone turning this country on its head although we can hope because an election happens the opposition parties get together afterward and tell the Cons they are ready together to run the country. That is the last best hope to get rid of the Cons because I will tell you one thing I aint going to vote Liberal and their are plenty of progressive Canadians saying the same thing. They got a brand problem to go along with their vision, action, and leadership problem. BTW just for the record I think this EC thing is good for the Cons. The 40-50% of people will side with them including right wing Liberals believing if a party has the money they should be allowed to spend it because it comes from the people who support the party. Seriously it wont hurt their underlying numbers and might bring some free market Liberals to their side during the argument of "we followed the rules just because they weren't intended to be used the way we used them doesn't mean we did something wrong," this is the argument used to get around taxes all the time. This is not sponsorship scandal and when you look at it through non partisan eyes you see it only hurts them with people who don't vote for them anyway. Edited February 27, 2011 by punked Quote
waldo Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Excellent post WB!oh ya... that WB guy, particularly of late, is truly showing his self-described and oft-stated non-Conservative, non-booster club positions. Following the scribbler script, was this post, equally, not excellent - hey? Have you not yet figured out the difference between the two? I'm sure they will, as EC obviously has an agenda, they can't wait for a decision on their appeal of a ruling in favour of the CPC. The court ruled in their favour so I don't see how they can be charged with anything. Of course, the maggots are feeding off this big time... Yeah, even at the CBC as that maggoty Evan Soloman, Power & Politics guy at CBC News Net, is feeding off it today.There is no reason to prosecute them, especially in light of the court ruling, the least they could do is wait for the results of their appeal. If their appeal is lost, what then ! jeejaz! One has no bearing on the other... in this case, one is criminal, the other is 'regulatory' - it's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Gee... just how does civil prosecution proceed even in the face of the same defendant receiving a not guilty criminal trial ruling? It's really not a difficult concept to grasp, hey? Quote
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 See here is your problem. Your assumption is that Canadians "don't care" outside of elections but "do care" during them. I think Canadians care as much outside election as during elections and that the ones not paying attention do not pay attention during elections unless there is an issue to make them care. Right now no one has that issue. So people will go to the polls just like in 2008 and vote the same way they were going to vote on September 1st before the last election as they did in October during the election. There are no fireworks yet, maybe there will be but I don't know. I don't see anyone turning this country on its head although we can hope because an election happens the opposition parties get together afterward and tell the Cons they are ready together to run the country. That is the last best hope to get rid of the Cons because I will tell you one thing I aint going to vote Liberal and their are plenty of progressive Canadians saying the same thing. They got a brand problem to go along with their vision, action, and leadership problem. BTW just for the record I think this EC thing is good for the Cons. The 40-50% of people will side with them including right wing Liberals believing if a party has the money they should be allowed to spend it because it comes from the people who support the party. Seriously it wont hurt their underlying numbers and might bring some free market Liberals to their side during the argument of "we followed the rules just because they weren't intended to be used the way we used them doesn't mean we did something wrong," this is the argument used to get around taxes all the time. This is not sponsorship scandal and when you look at it through non partisan eyes you see it only hurts them with people who don't vote for them anyway. Nothing you've said has ANYTHING to do with what EC is doing nor why it's doing it... Simple as that... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) oh ya... that WB guy, particularly of late, is truly showing his self-described and oft-stated non-Conservative, non-booster club positions. Following the scribbler script, was this post, equally, not excellent - hey? Have you not yet figured out the difference between the two? I think I'm beginning to see your position,Waldo. Since sometimes I support Tory positions or situations, that would make me an absolute Tory supporter. That I don't often support "the other guys" must prove your premise! You know, I would cheerfully support positions or situations championed by one or both of the other parties. It's just that they propose even fewer that I can agree with than the Tories! Especially since they tend not to propose much specific of their own. They just keep knocking anything done by Harper's bunch. I've said before, show me a Liberal who acts like a classic Liberal and I very well might vote for him! Sorry if I'm not simplistic enough to share your sense of partisanship... Edited February 27, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.