GWiz Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Quite frankly in the above 3 cases it appears the lunatics in charge killed off any opposition and if there were any remaining young men they fled to other countries or died from AIDS. AIDS has devestated the populations in these countries as well as death squads. I have a friend who escaped from Zibabwe into South Africa and then came to Canada. Just being male and a certain age made him automatically suspect. Its hard to fathom just how efficient these lunatics are at killing people. When you think of it the revolution so far has been an Arab or Middle East phenomena but with the internet and cell phone who knows. I would like to see it happen in China. Ooops I am sure I will have Chinese internet police send out my name across the internet having sex with aardvarks now. That's fine. See if I buy any lead toothpaste or toys from them. A large proportion of the Chinese SUPPORT the Chinese Government and the Government is implementing many reforms beneficial to the general Chinese population... For better or worse China isn't going the way of the countries we're seeing on TV anyTIME soon... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Posted February 24, 2011 Quite frankly in the above 3 cases it appears the lunatics in charge killed off any opposition and if there were any remaining young men they fled to other countries or died from AIDS. AIDS has devestated the populations in these countries as well as death squads. I have a friend who escaped from Zibabwe into South Africa and then came to Canada. Just being male and a certain age made him automatically suspect. Its hard to fathom just how efficient these lunatics are at killing people. When you think of it the revolution so far has been an Arab or Middle East phenomena but with the internet and cell phone who knows. I would like to see it happen in China. Ooops I am sure I will have Chinese internet police send out my name across the internet having sex with aardvarks now. That's fine. See if I buy any lead toothpaste or toys from them. I agree in the case of Zimbabwe... Cameroon and the Ivory Coast a completely different... Corruption and heavy handed Fascistic governments are to blame there... For example,Mr.Biya spends 2/3 of the year in the South of France...Essentially an absentee lanlord...Slumlord is a better example. He does this by embezzeling (sp) funds from the resource rich Camerooon for his friends in the military who protect him.He has one TV station,one newspaper that aprrot the party line.He allows extrajudicial intimidation and killings...The Supreme Court is not a seperate body from the government,and all "judges" are appointed by Biya... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) A large proportion of the Chinese SUPPORT the Chinese Government and the Government is implementing many reforms beneficial to the general Chinese population... For better or worse China isn't going the way of the countries we're seeing on TV anyTIME soon... culture plays a large part in how a population responds to it's government...in china obedience to state authority is thousands of years long the state leaders today are no different than the bureaucrats that run the country in the imperial age before...if the masses become irate the state adjusts and responds with concessions/adjustments and the situation calms down again, everything in harmony... Edited February 24, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GWiz Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 culture plays a large part in how a population responds to it's government...in china obedience to state authority is thousands of years long the state leaders today are no different than the bureaucrats that run the country in the imperial age before...if the masses become irate the state adjusts and responds with concessions/adjustments and the situation calms down again, everything in harmony... Pretty much how it works... Post China's Olympics National Pride in China is soaring and the things the Chinese Government is doing IS (mostly) for the benefit of the people and not the Government... Far from perfect but generally in a good direction... Too bad because of Harper Canada is being left out of the new Chinese prosperity... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
ToadBrother Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Pretty much how it works... Post China's Olympics National Pride in China is soaring and the things the Chinese Government is doing IS (mostly) for the benefit of the people and not the Government... Far from perfect but generally in a good direction... Very far from perfect. Ignoring the human rights issues, there is a substantial divide between the standard of living in rural China and urban China, a long-standing problem that was one of the things the Communists were going to address when they took over from mean ol' Chiang Kai-shek. There's also a growing underclass of underemployed laborers living on the fringes of all the major Chinese cities which is also a growing problem. China has made great strides, particularly since the majority of the Communist claptrap was dumped by Deng Xiaoping, but it is a country that is racing to becoming a pre-eminent economic power even as a fair chunk of the country lives at subsistence levels. That divide is increasingly become a major concern for the stability of the country. It is in rural agrarian China that the Maoist revolution was born, and the technocrats that run the country now are quite cognizant of the fact that if they cannot start delivering some of the fruits of China's economic success to these people, another revolution may not be that far away. Too bad because of Harper Canada is being left out of the new Chinese prosperity... China has now become the biggest importer of BC lumber, but on a larger note Canada is hardly the only country that is having a hard time overcoming the trade imbalance. I'm not sure how it is exactly you feel you can nail this one on Harper, when it's a big problem for the US, Europe and Japan as well. Edited February 24, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
August1991 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 I think Pan-Arab Nationalists (Ba'Athists) are indeed Fascists...Look into their historical motivations...Abmittedly,Khaddaffi is bit more amorphous than the likes of the Assad's in Syria,or Mr.Mubarak in Egypt... By your (silly and simpleminded) semantic arguement,I should infer that East Germany being called the German Democratic Republic was really a paradise of democracy... WTF? JW, you give yourself the right to assign the word "fascist" to whatever system you want. But as soon as someone assigns the word "socialist" to a regime, you immediately declare foul! IMHO, Stalin, Castro, Chavez, Hitler, Gaddafi, Saddam are/were all dictators. It is idiocy to believe that a dictator can create utopia. And underneath all, this is why socialism is idiocy. ---- A civilized society is first of all based on individual freedom. And I happen to think that at present, the Middle East needs individual freedom more than democracy. (And BTW, socialists and fascists are generally opposed to individual freedom.) Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Posted February 25, 2011 WTF? JW, you give yourself the right to assign the word "fascist" to whatever system you want. But as soon as someone assigns the word "socialist" to a regime, you immediately declare foul! IMHO, Stalin, Castro, Chavez, Hitler, Gaddafi, Saddam are/were all dictators. It is idiocy to believe that a dictator can create utopia. And underneath all, this is why socialism is idiocy. ---- A civilized society is first of all based on individual freedom. And I happen to think that at present, the Middle East needs individual freedom more than democracy. (And BTW, socialists and fascists are generally opposed to individual freedom.) Thanks for the update on totalitarian/Authoritarian regimes... I take it you,like Pliny,feel Fascism and Marxism (Communism) come from the same place??? In otherwords...All totalitarian movements come from the Left of the political spectrum??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 Very far from perfect. Ignoring the human rights issues, there is a substantial divide between the standard of living in rural China and urban China, a long-standing problem that was one of the things the Communists were going to address when they took over from mean ol' Chiang Kai-shek. There's also a growing underclass of underemployed laborers living on the fringes of all the major Chinese cities which is also a growing problem. China has made great strides, particularly since the majority of the Communist claptrap was dumped by Deng Xiaoping, but it is a country that is racing to becoming a pre-eminent economic power even as a fair chunk of the country lives at subsistence levels. That divide is increasingly become a major concern for the stability of the country. It is in rural agrarian China that the Maoist revolution was born, and the technocrats that run the country now are quite cognizant of the fact that if they cannot start delivering some of the fruits of China's economic success to these people, another revolution may not be that far away. I agree because that's pretty much what I said... China has now become the biggest importer of BC lumber, but on a larger note Canada is hardly the only country that is having a hard time overcoming the trade imbalance. I'm not sure how it is exactly you feel you can nail this one on Harper, when it's a big problem for the US, Europe and Japan as well. The BIG difference is the US (especially) and the rest of the world are ACTIVELY engaging China while Harper is sitting on his ass spouting off about China's human rights record... China is listening and acting accordingly so where does that leave Canada in China's growth and prosperity? Canada has traditionally had a BIG HISTORIC EDGE in relations with China that Harper has managed to pretty much lose... So yeah, I blame Harper BIG TIME for that lose of a favourable relationship with China... http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/china-chine/bilateral_relations_bilaterales/booklet-brochure.aspx How come Harper hasn't invited President HU Jintao or even Premier WEN Jiabao for a visit yet, especially when HU Jintao was next door visiting Obama? - However, relations with China have also been strained during Harper's tenure. After Parliament unanimously adopted a motion giving honorary Canadian citizenship to the Dalai Lama in 2006, China threatened to use its considerable economic strength to penalize Canada. The Dalai Lama won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 for his lifelong struggle for Tibetan autonomy and his pursuit of peace. He has lived in exile since 1958, when China annexed Tibet. In 2007, Harper warned China not to threaten Canada with economic repercussions for bringing up the Asian country's human rights record and standing up for the rights of Canadians abroad. Harper was referring to the case of Huseyin Celil, a Canadian activist jailed in China for alleged terrorist links. - Nice to have "principles", but NOT if it hurts Canada and it's people economically, that's NOT a Prime Ministers job, is it? Harper's JOB is to do what's BEST for Canada and he's FAILED miserably at it... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
August1991 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) I take it you,like Pliny,feel Fascism and Marxism (Communism) come from the same place???In otherwords...All totalitarian movements come from the Left of the political spectrum??? Socialism requires a totalitarian regime. Socialists typically (naively) believe that a Socialist regime will do good, make the world a better place, create utopia. When a totalitarian regime does not do good, create utopia, etc, socialists declare that the regime was not "true socialism".---- I'm not a libertarian but I think that the first basis of a civilized society is individual freedom. (And yes, that means that some people will have more money than others - people are free to pursue their own interests and having more money is only one of many pursuits in life.) To me, democracy means primarily that we have a civilized way to get rid of State/government politician/bureaucrat idiots. Some politicians/bureaucrats are honest and decent, others are psychopaths. When a society winds up with a psychopath as leader of State/government, it should have an easy way to get rid of him/her. True democracies do that. Edited February 25, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Posted February 25, 2011 Socialism requires a totalitarian regime. Socialists typically (naively) believe that a Socialist regime will do good, make the world a better place, create utopia. When a totalitarian regime does not do good, create utopia, etc, socialists declare that the regime was not "true socialism". ---- I'm not a libertarian but I think that the first basis of a civilized society is individual freedom. (And yes, that means that some people will have more money than others - people are free to pursue their own interests and having more money is only one of many pursuits in life.) To me, democracy means primarily that we have a civilized way to get rid of State/government politician/bureaucrat idiots. Some politicians/bureaucrats are honest and decent, others are psychopaths. When a society winds up with a psychopath as leader of State/government, it should have an easy way to get rid of him/her. Great... I'm not a Socialist,but thanks for your personal assessment on the matter... The rest,despite your qualifier,sounds like classic reasoning for libertarianism...Perhaps Libertarian Lite? I'll ask again,because you seemed to previously intimate this... Do you think,as Pliny (erroneously) does,that Fascism and Communism come from the same place on the political spectrum? In otherwords...All totalitarian movements come from the Left??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
myata Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 Not far now...last effort, last fight and one more bloodthirsty tyrant is sent down the garbage chute. Wishing brave people of Libya courage, near victory and less loss of precious life. There is only one freedom and today they take a courageous stand for it against murderous and desperate tyranny. Bravo! Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
August1991 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Perhaps Libertarian Lite?I could live with that description. I believe in a respected Charter of Rights. I think that a civilized State restricts the power of governments and ensures individual freedom.I'll ask again,because you seemed to previously intimate this...Do you think,as Pliny (erroneously) does,that Fascism and Communism come from the same place on the political spectrum? In otherwords...All totalitarian movements come from the Left??? To me, totalitarian regimes are dictatorial. Socialism/Communism, even in their ideal, mean the dictatorship of the majority.A civilized society is primarily based on individual freedom. We have a Charter of Rights in Canada because it (in theory) prevents the State from restricting individual choice. ---- Look Jack, do I think all totalitarian movements come from the Left? No. But all extreme Leftist movements are totalitarian. They have to be. Leftists want the State to control the economy. Leftists call this "democratic socialism" - and that's not the same as individual freedom. Edited February 25, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Posted February 25, 2011 I could live with that description. I believe in a respected Charter of Rights. I think that a civilized State restricts the power of governments and ensures individual freedom. To me, totalitarian regimes are dictatorial. Socialism/Communism, even in their ideal, mean the dictatorship of the majority. A civilized society is primarily based on individual freedom. We have a Charter of Rights in Canada because it (in theory) prevents the State from restricting individual choice. Great... Thanks for figuring out that authoritarian regimes are dictatorial...It's not the question I asked... I'm going to ask this for the 3rd time.... ahem... Do you think,as Pliny does,that Fascism and Communism (Marxism) come from the same place on the political spectrum? In otherwords...Do you think all totalitarian movements come from the Left??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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