Union Busting in Wisconsin

bush_cheney2004 · March 8, 2011

....There is a place for, if not violence, then a certain assertiveness in these things, at least, where the employer is acting like a bullying jerk.

LOL! During Gulf War I, our union local decided it was a great time to strike at a US defense plant. Since it was February and cold as hell, the employer took coffee and donuts out to those poor miserable bastards on the picket line. The younger engineer "scabs" preferred to moon them from the comfort of nice warm offices. Years later, they were all laid off after cannibalizing themselves with their own seniority rules.

blueblood · March 8, 2011

LOL! During Gulf War I, our union local decided it was a great time to strike at a US defense plant. Since it was February and cold as hell, the employer took coffee and donuts out to those poor miserable bastards on the picket line. The younger engineer "scabs" preferred to moon them from the comfort of nice warm offices. Years later, they were all laid off after cannibalizing themselves with their own seniority rules.

From one in three americans to one in ten americans. Looks like an idea failing to me.

pinko · March 8, 2011

From one in three americans to one in ten americans. Looks like an idea failing to me.

But then what do you really know?

bush_cheney2004 · March 8, 2011

But then what do you really know?

Ummm...he certainly knows that US union ranks have shriveled up over the past 25 years, and continue to do so.

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*...Vote Union NO!... *

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pinko · March 8, 2011

Ummm...he certainly knows that US union ranks have shriveled up over the past 25 years, and continue to do so.

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*...Vote Union NO!... *

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Get back in your hole.

blueblood · March 8, 2011

Ummm...he certainly knows that US union ranks have shriveled up over the past 25 years, and continue to do so.

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*...Vote Union NO!... *

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Thanks to ali velshi and cnn for that tid bit. Although his show does have a bit of slant to it, his number there is still valid.

Shady · March 8, 2011

I'm just agreeing with CANADIEN's very accurate assessment: that you wonder aloud why American "liberals," "socialists," and (virtually non-existent) "communists" should be interested in the Wisconsin matter; but you don't seem to question why a conservative Canadian should.

Not at all. It was Jack that asked me why conseravtive groups were interested in Wisconsin's budget. So I was merely asking him the same. If somebody wants to be interested in the Wisconsin issue, be my guest. You really should direct your post towards Jack. He seems to know everyone's motives. :rolleyes:

CANADIEN · March 8, 2011

Oppression? What sort of 'oppression'. Scabs in our union are not allowed to vote until they pay fines or some such, but they're still members of the union, still get the same benefits and pay, and still have to be represented in any dispute with the employer.

I am personnally not in favour of fine, as opposed to plain suspension. But frankly, it take so gall for someone to say "I don't want to be in the union, and I will betray you all when it suits me, but how dare you not treating me like a member of the union?"

Shady · March 8, 2011

Milwaukee teachers drop Viagra suit
The Milwaukee teachers union has dropped a lawsuit seeking to get its taxpayer-funded Viagra back.

Link

Aww, how nice. They've decided not to ask taxpayers to pay for their boner medication. They've decided to instead, sacrifice, and pay for it themselves. It's good to see them sacrficiing too in this difficult economic time. :rolleyes:

Pliny · March 8, 2011

I can argue since I've never made any claim of 'amazing wages and benefits', nor has any other person on this thread defending unions. Unions have been responsible for a general improvement in wages, benefits and working conditions over the past century. That is not really debatable. And as the percentage of unionized workers has shrunk, those benefits and wages and rights are being rolled back.

No they haven't. Increased production is the only thing that will produce improvements in wages, benefits and working conditions.

You can say that Unions bypassed government and took it into their own hands to curb what exploitation and abuse existed in the in the workplace that existed at the time, and I will agree with that.

In 1947 the Taft-Hartley act needed to be enacted to curb abuses of power in the workplace by Unions.

They have gradually lost popularity since then because they only help union members and stifle the chances of other workers seeking work - preferring to attempt to kill jobs rather than allow non-union labour to exist.

To repeat: The minimum paid vacation for an American workers is NOTHING. It is the only country in the western world that miserly towards workers. Meanwhile, in those socialist hellholes, workers can count on 5, 6, 7, 8 weeks of vacation each year.

Poor bastards!

It's all rosy now but those jobs won't be there for the next generation. An economy can't support it for long, govenremnt debt and deficits are the only thing keeping them alive. I would say Unions have a rather myopic view of an economy and I would say that what they accuse others of they themselves are guilty of - the term greedy comes to mind as they race to the bottom.

Sort of like a Ponzi scheme. The first guys in get the payoff and the later guys get stiffed.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Pliny

Pliny · March 8, 2011

I heard a good joke today and since there is no humour topic on this forum I'll make it fit here on this thread.

This executive is standing in front of the office shredder with a piece of paper in his hand. It's a little after five and people are all leaving. This Union guy passes by and the executive says to him, "Excuse me! My secretary has left for the day and I have this very sensitive document here...do you know how to operate this machine?" The young Union guy says yeah and turns the machine on and slides the paper in. "Excellent!", says the executive, "I only need one copy."

Pliny · March 8, 2011

Aww, how nice. They've decided not to ask taxpayers to pay for their boner medication. They've decided to instead, sacrifice, and pay for it themselves. It's good to see them sacrficiing too in this difficult economic time.

Were they being a bit sheepish about it?

blueblood · March 8, 2011

You'll wish that I didn't get curious and didn't click to see what new bit of crap you'd written.

Here is exactly (including the typos), what I have written on the issue of strike breakers. which means this is exactly what I think:

My opinion of racists is also well known to anybody who has read my postings on this site.

You, Sir, are a liar.

Oustanding, you have renounced violence!

Now we have a problem, you still support union members forcing workers to join union ( a la GM) which in turn means forcible work to rule, striking and other nonsense when said worker just wants to work and can deal with management on his own.

Yet you dispize people who in the days of jim crow made black people not allowed in some restauramts, their own water fountains and other nonsense.

So discrimination and oppression are okay only when unions do it?

And I'm the liar...

pinko · March 8, 2011

Democratic Party Of Wisconsin Ethics Complaint Against Gov. Scott Walker ®

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2011/03/democratic-party-of-wisconsin-ethics-complaint-against-gov-scott-walker-r.php?page=1

Pliny · March 8, 2011

Democratic Party Of Wisconsin Ethics Complaint Against Gov. Scott Walker ®

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2011/03/democratic-party-of-wisconsin-ethics-complaint-against-gov-scott-walker-r.php?page=1

We'll see how that works out. Don't think it will go anywhere considering the source because I think any one that misreppresents themselves in a telephone conversation is a little short on ethics themselves. It's the pot calling the kettle black in my view.

pinko · March 8, 2011

We'll see how that works out. Don't think it will go anywhere considering the source because I think any one that misreppresents themselves in a telephone conversation is a little short on ethics themselves. It's the pot calling the kettle black in my view.

Maybe but it makes a good conversation piece.

Pliny · March 8, 2011

Maybe but it makes a good conversation piece.

Yep. There will, I'm sure, be a few dirty political manouvers on both sides before this is over. Politicians tend to be weasels.

But I would trust, as a friend, a Ronald Reagan or a Sarah Palin or a Ron Paul, before an Al Gore or a Ted Kennedy or a Lyndon Johnson or a Barack Obama.

Scotty · March 8, 2011

And that gentlemen is called thievery and intimidation!

You evidently define these things differently than those of us who look to dictionary definitions.

Scotty · March 8, 2011

LOL! During Gulf War I, our union local decided it was a great time to strike at a US defense plant. Since it was February and cold as hell, the employer took coffee and donuts out to those poor miserable bastards on the picket line. The younger engineer "scabs" preferred to moon them from the comfort of nice warm offices. Years later, they were all laid off after cannibalizing themselves with their own seniority rules.

You are suggesting the items manufactured at the plant were required for the war effort? I'm thinking that's highly unlikely and perhaps the employer simply did a "Rha-Rha! America! Number One!" routine to justify trying to screw them.

Not to say that there aren't unions which are poorly led and make dumb decisions.

Scotty · March 8, 2011

From one in three americans to one in ten americans. Looks like an idea failing to me.

And - JUST A COINCIDENCE! - wealth continues to flow upwards and away from the middle class in America, as the rich get richer and everyone else lags further and further behind.

Scotty · March 8, 2011

Ummm...he certainly knows that US union ranks have shriveled up over the past 25 years, and continue to do so.

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*...Vote Union NO!... *

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I'm sure that has nothing to do with the way the owners of wealth in America have destroyed its manufacturing sector and exported the jobs oversees to where the workers can be better kept in line and fed scraps.

Scotty · March 8, 2011

No they haven't. Increased production is the only thing that will produce improvements in wages, benefits and working conditions.

So if an enterprise hires ten thousand workers, pays them a dollar a head, and makes a million dollar profit, those workers shouldn't consider that they should dare ask for two dollars a head. Is that what you're saying? Because profits don't belong to them. They belong to the owners of wealth.

It's all rosy now but those jobs won't be there for the next generation.

There's no evidence I've seen that European companies are in any way less stable than American ones. And, frankly, establishing a corporate culture which says that if you can't get workers for virtually nothing you should, wherever possible, transfer those jobs overseas to third world countries is not exactly conducive to keeping ANY well-paying jobs in America. Even your software engineering and technology jobs are being shifted overseas now. Just what jobs do you think you'll be able to hang on to other than service industry jobs? Or do you believe the answer is for American and western workers to reduce their lifestyles to the same as that of third world denizens?

pinko · March 8, 2011

But what everyone knows is wrong.

The day after the Obama-Bush event, The Times published an article about the growing use of software to perform legal research. Computers, it turns out, can quickly analyze millions of documents, cheaply performing a task that used to require armies of lawyers and paralegals. In this case, then, technological progress is actually reducing the demand for highly educated workers.

And legal research isn’t an isolated example. As the article points out, software has also been replacing engineers in such tasks as chip design. More broadly, the idea that modern technology eliminates only menial jobs, that well-educated workers are clear winners, may dominate popular discussion, but it’s actually decades out of date.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/opinion/07krugman.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage

Bonam · March 8, 2011

But what everyone knows is wrong.

The day after the Obama-Bush event, The Times published an article about the growing use of software to perform legal research. Computers, it turns out, can quickly analyze millions of documents, cheaply performing a task that used to require armies of lawyers and paralegals. In this case, then, technological progress is actually reducing the demand for highly educated workers.

And legal research isn’t an isolated example. As the article points out, software has also been replacing engineers in such tasks as chip design. More broadly, the idea that modern technology eliminates only menial jobs, that well-educated workers are clear winners, may dominate popular discussion, but it’s actually decades out of date.

That's correct, technology, computers, and robotics replace ever wider categories of human labour over time. That is not limited only to manual labour but increasingly intellectual labour as well. But, as old jobs are eliminated and replaced with computers, new jobs will be created, and people will have to adapt.

Jack Weber · March 8, 2011

And - JUST A COINCIDENCE! - wealth continues to flow upwards and away from the middle class in America, as the rich get richer and everyone else lags further and further behind.

SSShhHHHHH!!!!

UNIONS BAD!!

FREEDOM GOOD!!!

(Psstt....Stop pointing out the race to the bottom thingy!!!!)