pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 "Teacher's have been playing this dicey game for quite a spell" What game is that? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Absolutely by choice... 11 (12 in most places) paid holidays... MINIMUM 2 weeks paid vacation after 1 year working... Universal Health Care... To name just a few... ...and it shows...in the worker productivity numbers. Canadian workers have less choice....by choice. I don't think many Canadians would give up a single thing regarding the Canadian "lifestyle"... Except for the 25,000 who emigrate to the US per year. Of course those Canadians the worship at the alter of the almighty dollar would, but there really aren't that many of them when push comes to shove and ALL factors are considered... Yes there are...some even commute back and forth just to keep that "Universal Health Care" card alive. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 ...and it shows...in the worker productivity numbers. Canadian workers have less choice....by choice. You'll notice that it's a shell game with these people. First they assert that so and so is more productive. Then it moves to well, so and so isn't as productive, but it's by choice. And I'm sure it'll soon move from that as well. At least they've admitted that their original assertion was full of bull poop. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 "Teacher's have been playing this dicey game for quite a spell" What game is that? Shrinking student enrollment, school closures, allocated special ed budgeting, certifications, federally mandated achievement programs, benchmark testing, pay-for-performance, etc., etc. Being a teacher is not a slam dunk decision anymore. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 You'll notice that it's a shell game with these people. First they assert that so and so is more productive. Then it moves to well, so and so isn't as productive, but it's by choice. And I'm sure it'll soon move from that as well. At least they've admitted that their original assertion was full of bull poop. Indeed....you and MH boxed them in real well. Kudos! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 "You'll notice that it's a shell game with these people." Speaking of shell games where is the meat. I am still waiting for you to provide something of substance on the pension issue in Wisconsin. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Living up to agreements is the cornerstone of the post-neolithic idea of economy. Agreed. But contracts and agreements can always be restructured. Take the employees of GM and Chrysler. But in Wisconsin's case, as well as many other states, there is no money. Do you understand? There is no money to pay these flawed and unsustainable pensions and benefits. And in my opinion, asking the government to take more money from others in order to give to the public sector for their pay, pensions and benefits is about as unfair and immoral as an action can be. Quote
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) ...and it shows...in the worker productivity numbers. Canadian workers have less choice....by choice. Except for the 25,000 who emigrate to the US per year. Yes there are...some even commute back and forth just to keep that "Universal Health Care" card alive. and of course the warmth of the US's southern states would have no bearing on that right? Edited February 20, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 "You'll notice that it's a shell game with these people." Speaking of shell games where is the meat. I am still waiting for you to provide something of substance on the pension issue in Wisconsin. I already have. Long ago. They're being asked to pay half as much as everybody else does for their pension and benefits. Because Wisconsin is facing a multi-billion dollar budget deficit, and faces a balanced budget amendment. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Agreed. But contracts and agreements can always be restructured. Take the employees of GM and Chrysler. But in Wisconsin's case, as well as many other states, there is no money. Do you understand? There is no money to pay these flawed and unsustainable pensions and benefits. And in my opinion, asking the government to take more money from others in order to give to the public sector for their pay, pensions and benefits is about as unfair and immoral as an action can be. Contracts are normally changed through collective bargaining. I have already described the process. Again I ask you to get beyond your rhetoric and address the law in Wisconsin including collective bargaining rights and pension legislation. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Contracts are normally changed through collective bargaining. I have already described the process. Again I ask you to get beyond your rhetoric and address the law in Wisconsin including collective bargaining rights and pension legislation. As I've already stated. The public unions can agree to paying a bit more for their pensions and benefits, or face a mass lay off. The choice is theirs. But regardless, in a short period of time, when existing contracts expire and new contracts are negotiated, these will be the terms. The current system and structure is unsustainable. Quote
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Indeed....you and MH boxed them in real well. Kudos! Not quite, that would depend on how one looks at the argument... I'll choose my way "quality of life", you choose yours... As we've agreed, it's a choice... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I already have. Long ago. They're being asked to pay half as much as everybody else does for their pension and benefits. Because Wisconsin is facing a multi-billion dollar budget deficit, and faces a balanced budget amendment. There must also be legislation outlining collective bargaining and pension plans. You keep dancing on the talking points offered up by the repugs. You have provide nothing of substance to date. Quote
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Union Busting in Wisconsin start of a national war? My answer would be yes... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 There must also be legislation outlining collective bargaining and pension plans. There is. They only pay a small percentage of their salary for them. They're being asked to pay a bit more. Half of what everyone else pays. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 As I've already stated. The public unions can agree to paying a bit more for their pensions and benefits, or face a mass lay off. The choice is theirs. But regardless, in a short period of time, when existing contracts expire and new contracts are negotiated, these will be the terms. The current system and structure is unsustainable. How about producing a collective agreement supporting the assertions you are making. When the Governor proposes the abrogation of collective bargaining there is no choice. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Not quite, that would depend on how one looks at the argument... I'll choose my way "quality of life", you choose yours... As we've agreed, it's a choice... There is no argument...your contention of higher Canadian productivity is not sustained. Next! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Union Busting in Wisconsin start of a national war? My answer would be yes... Hopefully, at least concerning public sector unions. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 When the Governor proposes the abrogation of collective bargaining there is no choice. That's not accurate. The Governor as proposed collective bargaining be relegated to salary only. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 That's not accurate. The Governor as proposed collective bargaining be relegated to salary only. Again provide proof for your assertions. So far you have provided nothing other than rhetorical puffery. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Again provide proof for your assertions. So far you have provided nothing other than rhetorical puffery. Nope, I've posted several things, many pages ago. I refuse to have to keep re-posting them. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Hopefully, at least concerning public sector unions. One can only hope...each state should be Right To Work (RTW) anyway. If they want to join a union, go for it, and face the economic consequences. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Nope, I've posted several things, many pages ago. I refuse to have to keep re-posting them. I will take it from that post that you are misinfromed and unable to present a credible argument based upon the specific circumstances in Wisconsin. Your refusal is a sign that your position lacks merit. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I will take it from that post that you are misinfromed and unable to present a credible argument based upon the specific circumstances in Wisconsin. Your refusal is a sign that your position lacks merit. You're free to infer anything you want. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 You're free to infer anything you want. The door is always open to you provided you put the meat on the table. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.