bush_cheney2004 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 May as well get this thread started after what happened in Egypt....I hope President Bush is enjoying a nice cold beer in Crawford: All these developments seem to come as a surprise to the Obama administration, which dismissed Bush's "freedom agenda" as overly ideological and meant essentially to defend the invasion of Iraq. But as Bush's support for the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon and for a democratic Palestinian state showed, he was defending self-government, not the use of force. Consider what Bush said in that 2003 speech, which marked the 20th anniversary of the National Endowment for Democracy, an institution established by President Ronald Reagan precisely to support the expansion of freedom. "Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe - because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty," Bush said. "As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment and violence ready for export." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012803144.html Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) May as well get this thread started after what happened in Egypt....I hope President Bush is enjoying a nice cold beer in Crawford: All these developments seem to come as a surprise to the Obama administration, which dismissed Bush's "freedom agenda" as overly ideological and meant essentially to defend the invasion of Iraq. But as Bush's support for the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon and for a democratic Palestinian state showed, he was defending self-government, not the use of force. Consider what Bush said in that 2003 speech, which marked the 20th anniversary of the National Endowment for Democracy, an institution established by President Ronald Reagan precisely to support the expansion of freedom. "Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe - because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty," Bush said. "As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment and violence ready for export." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012803144.html Me thinks Mr. Bush talks out of both sides of his mouth... I guess it all depends on what kind of day he's having or how low his ratings were... - President Bush today portrayed the war in Iraq as the latest front in the "global democratic revolution" led by the United States. The revolution under former president Ronald Reagan freed the people of Soviet-dominated Europe, he declared, and is destined now to liberate the Middle East as well. - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7991-2003Nov6.html All things considered I'd say he was a whole lot more WRONG than right... Freedom can never be "brought", it can only be won if the people want it badly enough, like in Egypt, and not by putting a Shaw into power like in Iran... Let's face it my friend in Iraq and Afghanistan (the Bush Wars) the final outcome has yet to be determined... Edited February 12, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Me thinks Mr. Bush talks out of both sides of his mouth... I guess it all depends on what kind of day he's having or how low his ratings were... - President Bush today portrayed the war in Iraq as the latest front in the "global democratic revolution" led by the United States. The revolution under former president Ronald Reagan freed the people of Soviet-dominated Europe, he declared, and is destined now to liberate the Middle East as well. - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7991-2003Nov6.html All things considered I'd say he was whole lot more WRONG than right... Freedom can never be "brought", it can only be won if the people want it badly enough, like in Egypt, and not by putting a Shaw into power like in Iran... Let's face it my friend in Iraq and Afghanistan (the Bush Wars) the final outcome has yet to be determined... Correct... AS do the situations in Egypt,Tunisia,Yemen,and now it looks increasingly like,Algeria... Nothing is complete at all!! And I question the totalness of the Reagan comment vis a vis the downfall of Communism in Europe... I could make a serious case that Pope John Paul II was as,if not more,influential on that front than Reagan... This sounds like partisan hackery and pseudopatriotic gratuitous chest thumping.... Edited February 12, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Correct... AS do the situations in Egypt,Tunisia,Yemen,and now it looks increasingly like,Algeria... Nothing is complete at all!! And I question the totalness of the Reagan comment vis a vis the downfall of Communism in Europe... I could make a serious case that Pope John Paul II was as,if not more,influential on that front than Reagan... This sounds like partisan hackery and pseudopatriotic gratuitous chest thumping.... Hey, let's give Reagan due credit, not so much for the fall of the Soviet Union, but for his Reaganomics which ultimately is what led to to the current "economic conditions" which in turn "triggered" populations to act in the way they are... If you catch my drift... I don't think I'll ever forget the "shamrock summit" between Reagan, Thatcher, and of course our very own lie'an Brian Moroney... Edited February 13, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Hey, let's give Reagan due credit, not so much for the fall of the Soviet Union, but for his Reaganomics which ultimately is what led to to the current "economic conditions" which in turn "triggered" populations to act in the way the are... If you catch my drift... I don't think I'll ever forget the "shamrock summit" between Reagan, Thatcher, and of course our very own lie'an Brian Moroney... Are you suggesting the admiration of neoliberal economic theory the likes of Milton Friedman and Friedrich Vov Hayek promoted,and were essentially adopted by the Reagan and Thatcher governments have not lead to the massive properity they claimed it would??? HOW DARE YOU!!! YOU ARE PROBABLY A STALINIST WHO WEARS CHE GUEVERA T-SHIRTS,ARE'NT YOU!! Are you also trying to say that neoliberal free market politicians are sorta...kinda..Corporate sell outs/whores??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) ...All things considered I'd say he was a whole lot more WRONG than right... Freedom can never be "brought", it can only be won if the people want it badly enough, like in Egypt, and not by putting a Shaw into power like in Iran... You are missing the larger point that is/was the change in American foreign policy for the region from "containment" to "aggressive intervention". Bush and company decided to take advantage of the opportunity presented by 9/11 (never waste a good crisis), and right or wrong, it was a significant departure and game changer. And I agree with you that it must be won by those willing to shed some blood, which is why I opined that it was pathetic for it to have taken so long. Bush asked Mubarak to take a bold step in such a direction, but he refused. Not "Shaw"...you meant "Shah". Let's face it my friend in Iraq and Afghanistan (the Bush Wars) the final outcome has yet to be determined... But there will be an outcome far different than the status quo...no? This coupled with largely American social media sites helped to make the unthinkable possible, just like blue jeans in Moscow! Edited February 12, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Are you suggesting the admiration of neoliberal economic theory the likes of Milton Friedman and Friedrich Vov Hayek promoted,and were essentially adopted by the Reagan and Thatcher governments have not lead to the massive properity they claimed it would??? HOW DARE YOU!!! YOU ARE PROBABLY A STALINIST WHO WEARS CHE GUEVERA T-SHIRTS,ARE'NT YOU!! Are you also trying to say that neoliberal free market politicians are sorta...kinda..Corporate sell outs/whores??? Umm, may I point out you forgot to mention the "third leg" of the threesome, he had it the easiest, he simply sold Canada down the river to Reagan via Free Trade and introduced Canada to it's new currency referred to by BC as the "Northern Peso"... Stalinist eh, well now, there's about as much chance of that as your Hamilton "pussy cats" winning the Grey Cup... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Umm, may I point out you forgot to mention the "third leg" of the threesome, he had it the easiest, he simply sold Canada down the river to Reagan via Free Trade and introduced Canada to it's new currency referred to by BC as the "Northern Peso"... Stalinist eh, well now, there's about as much chance of that as your Hamilton "pussy cats" winning the Grey Cup... I did'nt mention the third leg because I found him to be a willing nodder/slurper of the previous two.. It was Lyin' Brian who felt Canada would be service economy in 20 years after the Free Trade deal...He was quite prophetic,however,he also did'nt mention the drop in the standard of living his little slurpfest with Reagan would lead to... Thanks Brian..And thanks again for your constant constitutional wranglings that gave us the Bloq Qubecois....Good job,Brian!!! Sadly,Miss Saskatchewan is correct...Ontario manufacturers really require a 75 to 80 cent CDN dollar to adequately compete,otherwise,we'll look like Flint,Michigan... Oskee Wee Wee.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 You are missing the larger point that is/was the change in American foreign policy for the region from "containment" to "aggressive intervention". Bush and company decided to take advantage of the opportunity presented by 9/11 (never waste a good crisis), and right or wrong, it was a significant departure and game changer. And I agree with you that it must be won by those willing to shed some blood, which is why I opined that it was pathetic for it to have taken so long. Bush asked Mubarak to take a bold step in such a direction, but he refused. Not "Shaw"...you meant "Shah". But there will be an outcome far different than the status quo...no? This coupled with largely American social media sites helped to make the unthinkable possible, just like blue jeans in Moscow! Right, Shah it is, Shaw is my service provider.. "Even from the worst of things some good may come." - GWiz But I somewhat agree with your assessment of the change in policy, although totally wrongly implemented... Hey, Russia got Canadian (Winnipeg) made jeans, you guys try to take credit for everything... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Right, Shah it is, Shaw is my service provider.. "Even from the worst of things some good may come." - GWiz But I somewhat agree with your assessment of the change in policy, although totally wrongly implemented... Hey, Russia got Canadian (Winnipeg) made jeans, you guys try to take credit for everything... Well.. They also got a few Mickey D's??? Speaking of Mickey D's...I'm getting hungry!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Right, Shah it is, Shaw is my service provider.. "Even from the worst of things some good may come." - GWiz But I somewhat agree with your assessment of the change in policy, although totally wrongly implemented... OK...I don't have a problem with that. Dick Cheney said it best, "We can have access to Mideast oil with terrorism, or NO access to Mideast oil with terrorism". A ham fisted implementation does not mean a total policy failure....there are numerous examples of this in American foreign policy going back more than 100 years. Hey, Russia got Canadian (Winnipeg) made jeans, you guys try to take credit for everything... As I've stated before, when I needed a cheap commie made photo enlarger back in 1971, I found one (Zenit) inported by Canada in the back of Popular Photography magazine. Thank you Mr. Trudeau! Edited February 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 I did'nt mention the third leg because I found him to be a willing nodder/slurper of the previous two.. It was Lyin' Brian who felt Canada would be service economy in 20 years after the Free Trade deal...He was quite prophetic,however,he also did'nt mention the drop in the standard of living his little slurpfest with Reagan would lead to... Thanks Brian..And thanks again for your constant constitutional wranglings that gave us the Bloq Qubecois....Good job,Brian!!! Sadly,Miss Saskatchewan is correct...Ontario manufacturers really require a 75 to 80 cent CDN dollar to adequately compete,otherwise,we'll look like Flint,Michigan... Oskee Wee Wee.. You know my friend, all kidding aside, I have to wonder if Canadians in general are a little "slow"... First there was "Dief the Chief" Diefenbaker who killed Canada's hopes to become a major player in the world's (military) aviation industry by SCRAPPING the Avro Arrow... Then there was "Lie'an (lyin') Brian" Moroney who sold Canada out to the U.S. with his "sweetheart" Free Trade deal and letting Quebec, via the Bloc, call the shots on what's left... And we have Moroney's understudy Harper who managed to coerce the PC party to become reformers and is now doing his best to finish what Moroney started with HUGE deficit spending policies on borrowed money... What's it gonna take for Canadians to get some "smarts" when it comes to who they're electing to govern them with only about 1/3 of the popular vote? Diefenbaker, Mulroney, Harper three peas in a pod when it comes to being BAD for Canada... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Well.. They also got a few Mickey D's??? Speaking of Mickey D's...I'm getting hungry!!! what? You EAT "there"? Wow, that explains a LOT! Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 what? You EAT "there"? Wow, that explains a LOT! Sometimes... Pressed cow parts,chemical process cheese,and,fried potato parts are'nt full of chemicals... TYhey're full of vitamins!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Sometimes... Pressed cow parts,chemical process cheese,and,fried potato parts are'nt full of chemicals... TYhey're full of vitamins!!! Damn good thing Canada has good "FREE" health care me thinks!! (I'd like your opinion on my previous, serious, post...) Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Damn good thing Canada has good "FREE" health care me thinks!! (I'd like your opinion on my previous, serious, post...) In aminute (or a few)... I'm heading for the Golden Arches!!! I can feel my arteries craving constriction!!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 In aminute (or a few)... I'm heading for the Golden Arches!!! I can feel my arteries craving constriction!!!! Enjoy... I made my "World Famous" fresh Chili earlier, think I'll warm it up... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Shady Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Freedom can never be "brought" Complete nonsense. History proves otherwise. Many times. Quote
Shady Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Hey, let's give Reagan due credit, not so much for the fall of the Soviet Union, but for his Reaganomics which ultimately is what led to to the current "economic conditions" which in turn "triggered" populations to act in the way the are... LOL! It's Reagan Derangement Syndrome! I'd already heard alarmists claim that the situation in Egypt was due in large part to climate change. But claiming it's due to lower income taxes in America in the 1980's is a new one! Quote
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Complete nonsense. History proves otherwise. Many times. You have trouble reading complete posts or just copying them? I don't answer out of context "snipets"... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 LOL! It's Reagan Derangement Syndrome! I'd already heard alarmists claim that the situation in Egypt was due in large part to climate change. But claiming it's due to lower income taxes in America in the 1980's is a new one! You're an idiot if you think Reaganomics was just tax cuts... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Shady Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 You're an idiot if you think Reaganomics was just tax cuts... And you're equally an idiot if you think that Reaganomics had anything to do with Egypt and it's current revolution. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Wizzer.. The above is your introduction the wacky world of The Professor (Shady).... Enjoy.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
BubberMiley Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 The above is your introduction the wacky world of The Professor (Shady).... If you know nothing about the topic but want to argue anyway, invent a "derangement syndrome" for a response and think nobody knows you're an imbecile. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) After a couple of more news cycles and settling dust, President Bush is still coming up roses: ...So was Bush right? In one sense, it will be years, perhaps decades or even longer before we can have an accurate accounting. It is worth recalling that all these nascent Arab democracies are just now taking root in a part of the world with a culture and history many times older than that of the United States, arguably the world's oldest democracy. This is a messy process, democracy, and intentionally so. It is not by any means a perfect system, but it is the ideal form of governance to account for the imperfect nature of man, the political animal. That is to say, in another sense, yes, Bush was right, and every American knows it — for it is only democracy that allows those voices not only to be heard, but to reach consensus without resorting to violence. http://www.npr.org/2011/02/11/133659238/egypt-shows-george-w-bush-was-right Edited February 14, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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