scouterjim Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am not "picking a bone" with anybody. My point is that Israel commands such a presence in US politics that the American, and Canadian, government turns a blind eye to any wrong doing by Israel. I still ask why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am not "picking a bone" with anybody. My point is that Israel commands such a presence in US politics that the American, and Canadian, government turns a blind eye to any wrong doing by Israel. I still ask why? I'd suggest you form a lobby group to oppose Canada's support of Israel. Maybe if you get enough numbers, Canada will become Zionist free. Same deal for the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'd suggest you form a lobby group to oppose Canada's support of Israel. Maybe if you get enough numbers, Canada will become Zionist free. Same deal for the US. Why? I am not anti-Semitic, or anti-Israel. I just don't see why Israel wields so much influence on the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Why? I am not anti-Semitic, or anti-Israel. I just don't see why Israel wields so much influence on the government. What particular influences by Israel in Canada do you consider to be wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am not "picking a bone" with anybody. My point is that Israel commands such a presence in US politics that the American, and Canadian, government turns a blind eye to any wrong doing by Israel. I still ask why? I can't speak for Canada, but the USA has lots of reasons to "turn a blind eye". America has invested many billions of dollars for stability in the region, and Israel is the cornerstone to that policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I can't speak for Canada, but the USA has lots of reasons to "turn a blind eye". America has invested many billions of dollars for stability in the region, and Israel is the cornerstone to that policy. As well...as mentioned...the Arab/Israeli conflict is somewhat a leftover of both WW2 and Cold War politics. Often we see the question as to why the US supports Israel without the context of first Hitler & crew and later, the Soviet Union which we both know was the Arab's version of the USA with 'unconditional support' and 'blind-eye turning'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I can't speak for Canada, but the USA has lots of reasons to "turn a blind eye". America has invested many billions of dollars for stability in the region, and Israel is the cornerstone to that policy. u.s.' policy towards israel destabilizes the region and puts americans and american's security in jeopardy. you may be okay with another country having so much influence in your foreign policy that jeopardizes american's security, but many don't and i'm sure more would also voice their concern if they knew what exactly happens and the type of influence AIPAC and israel have on your government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) ....you may be okay with another country having so much influence in your foreign policy that jeopardizes american's security, but many don't and i'm sure more would also voice their concern if they knew what exactly happens and the type of influence AIPAC and israel have on your government. I am perfectly OK with it, since AIPAC is an AMERICAN lobby. What part of this do some people not understand? It's "our" government, not "yours". If you want to change American foreign policy, invade the United States! Edited February 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I am perfectly OK with it, since AIPAC is an AMERICAN lobby. What part of this do some people not understand? It's "our" government, not "yours". If you want to change American foreign policy, invade the United States! He'll need a few hundreds of billions of US aid first... Edited February 18, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 He'll need a few hundreds of billions of US aid first... Exactly...just like this: The Mouse That Roared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Exactly...just like this: The Mouse That Roared Yes...that was what I was thinking...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am perfectly OK with it, since AIPAC is an AMERICAN lobby. an american lobby group that works towards the best interest of not u.s.a. but of another country. as professor mearsheimer and Hprofessor walt have said: AIPAC's success is due to its ability to reward legislators and congressional candidates who support its agenda, and to punish those who challenge it. ... AIPAC makes sure that its friends get strong financial support from the myriad pro-Israel PACs. Those seen as hostile to Israel, on the other hand, can be sure that AIPAC will direct campaign contributions to their political opponents. ... The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world. we get it, you're okay with the disproportional influence of another country on your government. an influence that puts america and americans in more danger. but most real americans who care about the well-being of america do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 ....we get it, you're okay with the disproportional influence of another country on your government. an influence that puts america and americans in more danger. but most real americans who care about the well-being of america do not. Great, because I am OK with AMERICANS organizing a lobby for AMERICANS to influence AMERICAN foreign policy. It is much more important than the irrelevant opinion of a NON-AMERICAN from Vancouver, BC, CANADA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Great, because I am OK with AMERICANS organizing a lobby for AMERICANS to influence AMERICAN foreign policy. It is much more important than the irrelevant opinion of a NON-AMERICAN from Vancouver, BC, CANADA! uhm. it's a lobby group for israel. not for america. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 uhm. it's a lobby group for israel. not for america. He means its an american organization run by americans with a view to influence american policy in a particular direction - in this case to make kissy kissy with Israel. Why would any american have a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 He means its an american organization run by americans with a view to influence american policy in a particular direction - in this case to make kissy kissy with Israel. Correct.....it is not an organization run by people from Vancouver with a view to influence American policy! Why would any american have a problem with that? Beats me, but it appears that somebody in Canada has a problem with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 He means its an american organization run by americans with a view to influence american policy in a particular direction - in this case to make kissy kissy with Israel. Why would any american have a problem with that? an american who cares for his/her country's security would. Petraeus: Israel is putting American lives at risk General Petraeus’s Centcom Statement before the Senate Armed Services Committee – 16th March 2010 (56pp .pdf) Page 12: Insufficient progress toward a comprehensive Middle East peace. The enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the AOR [area of responsibility]. Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large-scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizballah and Hamas. Page 33: A credible U.S. effort on Arab-Israeli issues that provides regional governments and populations a way to achieve a comprehensive settlement of the disputes would undercut Iran’s policy of militant “resistance,” which the Iranian regime and insurgent groups have been free to exploit. Page 38: The Levant and Egypt sub-region is the traditional political, social, and intellectual heart of the Arab world and is vital to security and stability in the CENTCOM AOR. Because of its history as a primary battleground between rival ideologies, the dynamics of this sub-region, particularly with regard to Israel, influence the internal and external politics of states outside the region as well. In addition, U.S. policy and actions in the Levant affect the strength of our relationships with partners in the AOR. As such, progress toward resolving the political disputes in the Levant, particularly the Arab-Israeli conflict, is a major concern for CENTCOM. In Paul Woodward’s take, he writes of Petraeus’s statements: If such a statement was being made outside the American political arena, it could be regarded as a rather bland expression of what has long been utterly obvious. Yet from the lips of a celebrated general, regarded by many as a potential future president, these words come as a bombshell. Neoconservatives and the Israel lobby have worked hard and long to obscure the deeply corrosive regional impact of a conflict that successive Israeli leaders have either been unwilling or seemingly incapable of resolving. Others, who earlier said what Petraeus now says, have either been dismissed as poorly informed or worse, branded as anti-Israeli or by insinuation, anti-Semitic. No such charge will stick to Petraeus. Indeed, if the Israel lobby was so foolhardy as to try and go after an American general who sometimes gets treated like a latterday Eisenhower, the lobby will be at dire risk of being visited by its own greatest fear: being branded as anti-American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 an american who cares for his/her country's security would. Special interest lobbies are an integral component of the American political landscape. You have a beef about a particular lobby's influence - meaning it's success in getting its point across to legislaturers and bureaucrats, okay. Its called politics. Its called democracy. Listen we all know that Jews control the world. It says so in the protocols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 an american who cares for his/her country's security would. Too funny....we're getting a lecture about Americans and America from somebody in Vancouver with a hell bent hard on for Israel. You can't make this stuff up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Special interest lobbies are an integral component of the American political landscape. You have a beef about a particular lobby's influence - meaning it's success in getting its point across to legislaturers and bureaucrats, okay. Its called politics. Its called democracy. Listen we all know that Jews control the world. It says so in the protocols. Bud doesn't think anything of the kind. I don't know that I'd recommend your joining in the radical extremsists here who insinuate anti-semitism too promiscuously every time Israel is the topic. I should add that I don't agree with the "too powerful Israeli lobby" thesis. Personally, I believe that it tries to exonerate the United States (and by extension this monolithic Jesus called "Western democracy") by assuming (and this is a recurring theme, especially by liberals) that the US is intrinsically a "righteous" and "moral" foreign policy force, continual thwarted by outside influence steering it from its "correct" path. Edited February 19, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Too funny....we're getting a lecture about Americans and America from somebody in Vancouver with a hell bent hard on for Israel. You can't make this stuff up! Vancouver is populated with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Listen we all know that Jews control the world. It says so in the protocols. weak. you've lowered yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Canadian Lobbyists outnumber Israeli lobbyists! Canadian Lobbyists Apply Elbow Grease to U.S. Democrats http://www.prwatch.org/node/7730 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Vancouver is populated with them. No doubt....I guess there are no direct flights from Vancouver to Tel Aviv? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 No doubt....I guess there are no direct flights from Vancouver to Tel Aviv? You have to go 'Beyond Hope', as some Vancouverites refer to the rest of the province, in order to find real British Columbians. Ask kimmy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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