Raising the US debt ceiling

Sir Bandelot · July 20, 2011

I think anti-Americanism exists, but it is issue based. People are against America on some issues, but not on others. Foreign policy and economic policy where there is deception and bullying, yes. Those are the darker side of America. But America is made of at least two opposing forces and we want the good guys to win.

And my view of the good guys is, those who don't want to hurt other people just so they can have more luxury.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Sir Bandelot

Oleg Bach · July 20, 2011

I think anti-Americanism exists, but it is issue based. People are against America on some issues, but not on others. Foreign policy and economic policy where there is deception and bullying, yes. Those are the darker side of America. But America is made of at least two opposing forces and we want the good guys to win.

And my view of the good guys is, those who don't want to hurt other people just so they can have more luxury.

We would all be millionares if we took the great oath...but some of us out of principle never will. As a young guy I was ousted from a very powerful and rich group of people - It took me years to figure out why I was found not fit for the role...They saw somthing in me --- a trait - it could have been tradtional - genetic or even cultural - I was not willing to harm people on mass to attain and hold great wealth...so I was useless to them and a distrubance.

punked · July 20, 2011

LOL!!!!

Obama's press secretary actually said that "leadership is not proposing a plan." That's his exact quote!!!

Why would they as soon as Obama did the base would kill it. The problem is people like you who think Obama is a big meanie when he is being honest with people.

pinko · July 20, 2011

As lawmakers on Capitol Hill continue to debate the possibility of a deal to raise the debt ceiling, new polling from the Washington Post and ABC News makes clear the political highs and lows of a number of proposal being bandied about.

When asked for their opinions on a wide range of possible ways to bring down the national debt, raising taxes on the wealthy in a variety of forms is without question the clear winner.

The biggest loser? Touching entitlements like Medicare, Medicaid and SocialSecurity.

More than seven in 10 respondents in the Post/ABC poll 72 percent said they favored the idea of raising taxes on those making $250,000 or more to help shrink the debt.

While, not surprisingly, 87 percent of Democrats supported such a move, so did 54 percent of self-identified Republicans. And, nearly six in 10 people said they would support raising taxes on oil and gas companies, including 55 percent of Republicans who agreed with the idea.

Those numbers suggest that the notion that any tax increase is anathema to the party base a belief that seems to be guiding much of House Republicans negotiating strategy to date may be misguided or, at least, overstated.

Other popular debt-reducing proposals included raising taxes on hedge funds (64 percent support) and raising taxes and/or premiums for wealthier Americans on Medicare (61 percent) and Social Security (66 percent).

While majorities were open to the idea of making more affluent Americans pay more for entitlement programs, the idea of making major changes to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security for the general population were broadly unpopular.

Seventy-two percent of people opposed cutting spending on Medicaid as a means of debt reduction, while 54 percent disagreed with the idea of raising the retirement age for Medicare from 65 years old to 67. Fifty-three percent didnt like the idea of making changes to Social Security so that benefits increased at a slower rate. (Narrow majorities of Republicans opposed those proposed changes to Medicare and Social Security, for what its worth.)

The polling makes clear why President Obama has, in the last several weeks, focused heavily on the idea that wealthy people, oil companies and, of course, corporate jet owners should be paying more in taxes as a way to shrink the nations debt. The public is very much behind that idea.

Of course, Obama has also floated the concept of and continues to push for a grand bargain that would put entitlement programs on the table.

Depending on what gets cut and when Obama could be sacrificing some (most? all?) of the political goodwill he gains by pushing tax reforms aimed at the affluent if a package gets done that alters Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. Thats only if you believe the idea of a grand bargain is still possible, however.

Viewed broadly, the polling suggests that most people are still taking a not in my backyard approach to solving the debt crisis.

The wealthy and oil/gas companies that continue to churn profits are an easy political target but wont solve the debt problem alone.

Taking on entitlements is a tougher road for any politician to travel, since those changes cut across a much broader swath of the American electorate and remain deeply unpopular.

Washington Post

Edited July 20, 2011 by pinko

Sir Bandelot · July 20, 2011

More than seven in 10 respondents in the Post/ABC poll — 72 percent — said they favored the idea of raising taxes on those making $250,000 or more to help shrink the debt.

While, not surprisingly, 87 percent of Democrats supported such a move, so did 54 percent of self-identified Republicans. And, nearly six in 10 people said they would support raising taxes on oil and gas companies, including 55 percent of Republicans who agreed with the idea.

Those numbers suggest that the notion that any tax increase is anathema to the party base — a belief that seems to be guiding much of House Republicans’ negotiating strategy to date — may be misguided or, at least, overstated.

Saw on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart quite a confusing barrage of opinion polls on this same matter. He showed a bunch of news clips from various TV networks with support numbers going everywhere from min to max. It really raised a question about the validity of polls!

punked · July 20, 2011

Weird twist. Cantor has been in talks with wealthy donors who are telling him to stop with the no tax cuts non sense. Where is that Shady?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59422.html

pinko · July 20, 2011

Saw on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart quite a confusing barrage of opinion polls on this same matter. He showed a bunch of news clips from various TV networks with support numbers going everywhere from min to max. It really raised a question about the validity of polls!

Polls aren't the be all end all but they do provide a gauge at a given point in time.

punked · July 20, 2011

Where is that Shady?

punked · July 20, 2011

Translation: There is no plan because there is no place for the plan to come from, thus no proposal from and entity that does not exist - second translation - There is no leadership.

Today A top Republican said the "Gang of 6 plan" will be dead on arrival in the house because Obama spoke well of it. That is why there is no plan because Obama could give Republicans everything they wanted and they would still vote against it because Obama had it. They think him a big meanie end of story. Right Shady? Otherwise would Obama endorsing a plan make it dead before anyone has even read it? Don't fool yourself. Actually open your eyes.

Sir Bandelot · July 20, 2011

Polls aren't the be all end all but they do provide a gauge at a given point in time.

I don't oppose the basic principal but as I demonstrated above, which poll do you want to choose from?

- The dilemma of the 'Age of Information'

punked · July 20, 2011

I don't oppose the basic principal but as I demonstrated above, which poll do you want to choose from?

- The dilemma of the 'Age of Information'

Well to be fair no matter what poll you Chose they all show that the public is breaking on this in favor of the Dems. It is how much they have moved in every poll not really what the numbers who which will tell you the momentum.

pinko · July 20, 2011

Well to be fair no matter what poll you Chose they all show that the public is breaking on this in favor of the Dems. It is how much they have moved in every poll not really what the numbers who which will tell you the momentum.

That certainly appears to be the trend.

punked · July 21, 2011

Grover says to let the Bush tax cuts expire. Hopefully this is the end game to this whole thing. Someone needs to tell Shady the talking points for the day. It was funny I think just a few months ago the Republicans were fighting to make them permanent funny how quickly they change their minds eh? They flip and they flop all over the place changing their minds with the polls. They seem kinda like the Liberal party of Canada right now.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/what_is_up_with_grover_norquist.php?ref=fpblg

gradkiss · July 22, 2011

Hello everyone...typing from a console here in San Diego California and thought I would communicate with the intelligent...LOL Could not help but recall the last time I visited the forum someone mention that Oboma had warned canadians of the future recession again, plus I recall a visit from Australia from scientists that gave Canadians all the proof that the first thing to go in the future climatic warming was the food supply that the uS did not prepare for, nor did they seem too intent on planning for anyone involved in todays trend that there are too many people living upon Earth?

Well...one thing I know is that is not Canada's fault, but manybe we should look at two political parties in the uS that demand they possess all the knowlege...even knowlege above those with the Kabblah as their roots for education...or maybe those there in Canada would like to smile. At least Canadians are allowed to act as if they are eduacated!

Look at what Washington did not only with the telephones which were invented in Canada, but the automobiles that they pushed out of Canada, and the health system they refused to model after Canada! LOL Then they polluted lake Michigan and other lakes...finding a large number of uS and Camnadian citizens suffering Cancer, etc.

Even being born in Loma Linda California, Raised in Tennessee with an accent that is definetely Southern...I can see through all this management of the uS dollar and see some got alot more than the others and ways have gotten only a small bit of the whole pie here in the uS. Why? The ones that are have-nots are not Democrat or Republican party members that set the political platform at the bottom of the line of "whatever" is actually top to bottom here in the legislators.

bush_cheney2004 · July 22, 2011

...At least Canadians are allowed to act as if they are eduacated!....

Priceless!

bloodyminded · July 22, 2011

Priceless!

I disagree. I put it at about four cents' worth. Let the market decide!

Edited July 22, 2011 by bloodyminded

Shady · July 23, 2011

Well to be fair no matter what poll you Chose they all show that the public is breaking on this in favor of the Dems.

Oh punked, if only that were true! :lol:

CNN Poll: Americans like Balanced Budget Amendment
A poll conducted for CNN by ORC International showed support for a Balanced Budget Amendment at 74% among U.S. adults. Support for a proposal like the Republican “Cut, Cap, and Balance” plan was 66%

Link

But once again, Democrats voted against a balanced budget amendment. Apparently balancing the budget within 10 years is just too damn soon for them. Plus, they want it to remain easy for them to raise taxes. So it was a lose-lose situation for them. Nevermind that they could have easily raised taxes a year ago when they were in full control of congress. But they didn't. But now they expect Republicans to raise taxes for them. You can't make this stuff up! :rolleyes:

But this is a party that hasn't passed a budget in over 2 years, while at the same time increasing spending by 25% during that same period. Yet they think that raising taxes is the answer. These people are either insane, or retarded. It's one or the other.

pinko · July 23, 2011

Oh punked, if only that were true!

But once again, Democrats voted against a balanced budget amendment. Apparently balancing the budget within 10 years is just too damn soon for them. Plus, they want it to remain easy for them to raise taxes. So it was a lose-lose situation for them. Nevermind that they could have easily raised taxes a year ago when they were in full control of congress. But they didn't. But now they expect Republicans to raise taxes for them. You can't make this stuff up!

But this is a party that hasn't passed a budget in over 2 years, while at the same time increasing spending by 25% during that same period. Yet they think that raising taxes is the answer. These people are either insane, or retarded. It's one or the other.

As a Canadian why do you care what opinion may be held by some Americans at this point in time?

Edited July 23, 2011 by pinko

bush_cheney2004 · July 23, 2011

As a Canadian why do you care what opinion may be held by some Americans at this point in time?

LOL! Pot...kettle...white!

Shady · July 23, 2011

As a Canadian why do you care what opinion may be held by some Americans at this point in time?

You seemed to care just a few days ago.

That certainly appears to be the trend.

Why is it when somebody presents you with facts that conflict with your incorrect premise. You seek to then change the subject?

Why are you allowed to care, but I'm not?

pinko · July 23, 2011

You seemed to care just a few days ago.

Why is it when somebody presents you with facts that conflict with your incorrect premise. You seek to then change the subject?

Why are you allowed to care, but I'm not?

I care about the state of the American economy in relation to Canada. My premise is that the teabaggers are a bunch of extremist simpletons.

Edited July 23, 2011 by pinko

bush_cheney2004 · July 23, 2011

I care about the state of the American economy in relation to Canada. My premise is that the teabaggers are a bunch of extremist simpletons.

So are you saying that Canada is at the mercy of "extremist simpletons"? How did this come to be?

Shady · July 23, 2011

I care about the state of the American economy in relation to Canada.

Me too. But why do you get to care about it, but I can't?

My premise is that the teabaggers are a bunch of extremist simpletons.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I happen to think the same thing about the handjobbers. You know, the people that want the government's hand in an increasingly prominent way, in everyday life, and especially the economy. The handjobbers are even more extremist and simple.

punked · July 24, 2011

I would point out Obamacare was polling at the same level when it came out to. People love stuff till they learn what it is Shady. I remember you dismissing those polls.

Moonlight Graham · July 24, 2011

Finally read up on the Cut, Cut and Balance Act and the BBA amendment. A bit of a joke i'd say, spending cuts...yet zero cuts in defense spending? It looks like a means for Republicans to hammer through an amendment making it much harder to raise taxes. A super-majority? Ya like that will ever fly.

The debt problem has nothing to do with taxes or spending by themselves, but simply spending more than tax revenues bring in. Any debt-reduction will obviously need cuts in spending AND increases in taxes to be most effective. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure this out? Why does this have to go on ideological lines? Just fix the problem logically.