M.Dancer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 hmm, i will locate your sense of humour again, or find one for myself... either way one of us will benefit. I don't find anything funny about the death penalty. It is odious. But less odious than allowing monsters to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) I don't find anything funny about the death penalty. It is odious. But less odious than allowing monsters to live. No, no it really isn't. If you really wanted to punish monsters you wouldn't give them the easy way out which is really what the death penalty is. That and there will never be anything "foolproof" before a court of law. Ever. Period. Tapes can be tampered, confessions extracted illegally, evidence mishandled and these are all things that can fall through the cracks. Killing criminals to make ourselves feel better is not just a crime in it's own right, the fact that executing an innocent person wrongfully convicted is so high that it just isn't worth reintroducing. It's like back in the UAE thread. We've been wronged but we get so angry that we want to chop off our nose to spite our face. We don't think of the broader consequences to our actions. Shrugging off killing someone who may be innocent to fulfill a revenge fantasy because of the fact that our system is a human one - full of flaws (and that won't change) is just not worth it. Edited January 26, 2011 by nicky10013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you really wanted to punish monsters you wouldn't give them the easy way out which is really what the death penalty is. That is debatable. Considering that our prisons are not particularly uncomfortable, and that a true "monster" feels no remorse for their actions, their punishment consists of a lifetime of living in what is effectively a cheap hotel, which they just aren't allowed to leave. They're life will still include physical and mental activity, pretty much to whatever extent they wish it to include such activities, as well as social interactions with their fellow inmates. Now, if our prisons were chambers of slow torment where prisoners writhed in agony for decades before their bodies decayed into mangled lifeless husks, I'd agree, death would be the easy way out. But that is not the case, and I don't think anyone is arguing for that to become the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 That is debatable. Considering that our prisons are not particularly uncomfortable, and that a true "monster" feels no remorse for their actions, their punishment consists of a lifetime of living in what is effectively a cheap hotel, which they just aren't allowed to leave. They're life will still include physical and mental activity, pretty much to whatever extent they wish it to include such activities, as well as social interactions with their fellow inmates. Now, if our prisons were chambers of slow torment where prisoners writhed in agony for decades before their bodies decayed into mangled lifeless husks, I'd agree, death would be the easy way out. But that is not the case, and I don't think anyone is arguing for that to become the case. So if torture prisons aren't defensable why is the death penalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 No, no it really isn't. If you really wanted to punish monsters you wouldn't give them the easy way out which is really what the death penalty is. If that was the case, they would all volunteer for it, saving the need for a lengthy appeal process and the cost of oincarceration. Is that the case in the US...do the monsters queue up for the chair or do they fight tooth and nail for everyday of their lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If that was the case, they would all volunteer for it, saving the need for a lengthy appeal process and the cost of oincarceration. Is that the case in the US...do the monsters queue up for the chair or do they fight tooth and nail for everyday of their lives? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Seriously? I don't know...I'm not the one making the assinine argument that death is preferable to life. You are. Were you seriously making an idiotic statment or were you joking? If you argument is valid, I would expect some shred of evidence as in those sserving life (and in the states, life is life) to demand the easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 We need to hang few lawyers and parole officers first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I certainly support the use of capital punishment for the most heinous of criminals, but I was always under the impression that the majority of Canadian oppose it strongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I certainly support the use of capital punishment for the most heinous of criminals, but I was always under the impression that the majority of Canadian oppose it strongly. In last poll 67% supported capital punishment. But not death penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) As Harper said, by and large, Canadians don't want to re-address the death penalty. I'm satisfied with ensuring that heinous criminals never, ever get out of jail - except in a box. Having said that, the Milgaards and Trustcott cases are a red herring. These were cases of single crimes where in retrospect, after years of reflection and the introduction of DNA testing - there was some room for doubt. Harper - and many Canadians like myself - are expressing personal views with regards to heinous multiple crimes like Bernardo and Pickton - crimes that leave absolutely no room for doubt. I would lose no sleep over these deranged scumbags rotting in jail for 10 years, exhausting all legal avenues that might be at their disposal - and then finally facing the Grim Reaper's noose - or needle. Isn't the problem in Canada that "life imprisonment" still includes the possibility of parole after some years, depending on the crime? I think Canadian justice, at its most severe, will give someone life imprisonment with the possibility of parole after 25 years... and often parole eligibility is much sooner. This is a big problem. Certainly Milgaard and other wrongful convictions are red herrings given massive improvements in investigative methods over the years. Moreover, we could attach special conditions for the implementation of capital punishment ensuring its safety. Edited January 27, 2011 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) In last poll 67% supported capital punishment. But not death penalty. So you're saying the opinions of Canadians change depending on the language used in the poll? That's unsurprising, but still disappointing. Edited January 27, 2011 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) I don't know...I'm not the one making the assinine argument that death is preferable to life. You are. Were you seriously making an idiotic statment or were you joking? If you argument is valid, I would expect some shred of evidence as in those sserving life (and in the states, life is life) to demand the easy way out. The easiest way out is by not going to prison, no? Considering you don't take into account every variable, your arguement is useless. Edited January 27, 2011 by nicky10013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If that was the case, they would all volunteer for it, saving the need for a lengthy appeal process and the cost of oincarceration. Is that the case in the US...do the monsters queue up for the chair or do they fight tooth and nail for everyday of their lives? No one wants to die Morris, it obviously goes against every grain of our beings. Having said that, given the choice of living the rest of my life in a 4X6 cell like Bernardo does, with little to no outside contact, having to look over my shoulder constantly for some punk out to make a name for himself, I'd choose the needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Isn't the problem in Canada that "life imprisonment" still includes the possibility of parole after some years, depending on the crime? I think Canadian justice, at its most severe, will give someone life imprisonment with the possibility of parole after 25 years... and often parole eligibility is much sooner. This is a big problem. No it's not 25 years in prison is a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 The easiest way out is by not going to prison, no? Considering you don't take into account every variable, your arguement is useless. I thought we were talking about convicted criminals...not those who have not been convicted...perhaps you might want to re-write you aregument to reflect that, that those who have not been convicted of life and sevring life would prefer death over prison... And then we will see if it is as idiotic as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No one wants to die Morris, it obviously goes against every grain of our beings. Having said that, given the choice of living the rest of my life in a 4X6 cell like Bernardo does, with little to no outside contact, having to look over my shoulder constantly for some punk out to make a name for himself, I'd choose the needle. Again, while that is you saying that in the comfort of your home....how many serving life in the US are volunteering for the needle? Very few.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Again, while that is you saying that in the comfort of your home....how many serving life in the US are volunteering for the needle? Very few.... And how many are volunteering to be locked up? That's just not a valid question to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 And how many are volunteering to be locked up? That's just not a valid question to ask. Only if we were debating prison terms..which we are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If that was the case, they would all volunteer for it, saving the need for a lengthy appeal process and the cost of incarceration. Is that the case in the US...do the monsters queue up for the chair or do they fight tooth and nail for everyday of their lives? Exactly. Rest assured, most prisoners do what they can to stay alive and look for ways out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 And how many are volunteering to be locked up? That's just not a valid question to ask. You've missed the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 You've missed the point... No I don't believe I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No I don't believe I have. No, really, you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) No it's not 25 years in prison is a long time. You like the idea of the the most reprehensible criminals being up for parole in 25 years (or less) after being sentenced to life imprisonment? Edited January 27, 2011 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Exactly. Rest assured, most prisoners do what they can to stay alive and look for ways out. They really have no other choice save for suicide. US prisoners cannot volunteer for state execution.....guilt and punishment phases are separate judicial proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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