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Posted

I don't know what examples you guys are thinking of WRT child porn getting prison terms. But I can remember Robin Sharpe in his court case being allowed to own it, or write about it in a journal. I believe publishing or sharing pictures was the tipping point, and I never could understand what the judge's logic was in not throwing the book at the guy.

Because the law didn't at that time call for prison for people who write fictional stories, and because there was an "artistic merit" defense. The law has since been changed. Works of fiction are now illegal, and the artistic merit defense has been renmoved. In fact, the Supreme Court actually redefined the term "person" in the law to explicitely include "imaginary beings".

And remember, the law is sweeping enough that in addition to the Robin Sharpes it also criminalizes a seventeen year old writing in his diary about the sex he just had with his sixteen year old girlfriend. Any depictions of sex with or involving anyone who is under eighteen or who appears to be eighteen is liable to jail time now.

So our theoretical seventeen year old - or twenty five year old - is perfectly lawful in having sex with his sixteen year old girlfriend, but if he writes about it or takes pictures he can go to jail.

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

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Posted

However, putting people in prison for viewing videos of teens on the internet because you fear they'll somehow pay people to rape children is more than just a stretch.

It makes sense to me. If there are thousands of people watching these videos, that constitutes a market need that will be filled by more crimes.

Posted (edited)

It makes sense to me. If there are thousands of people watching these videos, that constitutes a market need that will be filled by more crimes.

How do you figure? If there are thousands of people who want to watch teenage girls doing strip teases - and I'll admit there certainly are - how does that then create a market for abusing small children?

Edited by Argus

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted

I see your point, but to suddenly stand up and rant about George Orwell over this song, when the same thing has already been happening for decades across a wide array of mediums just seems goofy.

Good point. At any rate, I consider editing out the 'n' word from Twain's book to be a more serious issue (and not the same issue, as some have posited).

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.

--Josh Billings

Posted

So Argus, you are against laws protecting children from child pornographers but support drug prohibition? Are you saying you would give up smoking hash if only you are allowed to oggle naked pictures of people's teenage daughters? Weird.

Posted (edited)

So Argus, you are against laws protecting children from child pornographers but support drug prohibition? Are you saying you would give up smoking hash if only you are allowed to oggle naked pictures of people's teenage daughters? Weird.

I am basically against censorship of anything which cannot be shown to cause direct harm. That is to say, I have reluctantly come to accept that we need some censorship for hatemongers who espouse violence, but no one has made even a remotely convincing case that putting people in prison for oggling teenagers makes sense. And bear in mind that obscenity laws can easily be used to stop places from selling, displaying or hosting such material without turning it into a criminal matter for individuals.

As far as soft drugs goes the only reason I don't fully support legalizing them is the likely reaction of the Americans and possible border complications.

None of which means I have to respect either grown men who fixate on teenage girls or potheads.

Edited by Argus

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the illegal videos themselves.

The point I originally made, in response to bonam, was that we did indeed, as a society, fixate too much on sex and everything related to it, including nudity. That we'd have SWAT teams busting down doors to drag off middle aged family men to prison because they oggled some videos of teenagers is beyond ridiculous. If society has an interest in ensuring no market develops for that sort of thing the obscenity provisions do just fine.

And, in fact, always have done just fine.

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted

I never heard of a gay that was offended by the word faggot. It is evident that only straight well meaning politically correct people are offended by mere words. What's next....? Gropping the artifical breast implant of an 80 year old woman at the airport and calling it SECURITY...The word security should be banned in it's present Orwellian context...and so should the word "sacrifice" when it comes to war...what the hell have we come too...? FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG ......there - sue me!

Posted

Some of these teenage girls are very very hot. Make an old man like me cry. But what has all this got to do with faggots? :D I'd be a faggot if I did not admire hot teenage girls.

I am a lesbian imprisoned in a man's body...

Posted

Seems idiotic right? But it also makes sense... nations throughout history have needed (or wanted) to fight violent wars from time to time, so its in the national interest for violence to not become "taboo". Glorified violence, and military idolitry are probably rooted in this, and the way that humans have "competed" throughout history.

Bad argument. Nations throughout history have needed people to fight wars (and doing everything else) from time to time (all the time). People are made through a process that starts with the act of sex. So its in the national interest for sex to not become "taboo". Oops, sex is taboo. There goes that argument.

Posted (edited)

Nowwww the government is involved:

CRTC asks for review of Dire Straits song ban

OTTAWA The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is asking the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council to reconsider its ban of the Dire Straits song Money for Nothing over use of the word "faggot."

In a statement Friday, the CRTC said the ban implemented last week "has elicited a strong public reaction and created uncertainty for private radio stations across the country."

No doubt, this decision is informed by the CRTC lurkers on this message board. :D

Edited by Shwa
Posted

Nowwww the government is involved:

CRTC asks for review of Dire Straits song ban

No doubt, this decision is informed by the CRTC lurkers on this message board. :D

And now this will be seen as "big government." That is, the private entities make a call for censorship, "government" is blamed for it; but government is asking (not demanding) for less censorship than the Big Brother private entities; and now we'll hear how "big government" is "restricting" the "freedom" of the private sector, once again.

:)

One in a while, we do get a taste of the government-free libertarian paradise. It often means private, unelected, unaccountable government, which evidently is to be preferred.

:)

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.

--Josh Billings

Posted

And now this will be seen as "big government." That is, the private entities make a call for censorship, "government" is blamed for it; but government is asking (not demanding) for less censorship than the Big Brother private entities; and now we'll hear how "big government" is "restricting" the "freedom" of the private sector, once again.

:)

One in a while, we do get a taste of the government-free libertarian paradise. It often means private, unelected, unaccountable government, which evidently is to be preferred.

:)

While the decision certainly was made by a non-government body, I would not be so quick to characterize it as an example of what you'd get in a "libertarian paradise".

Was this decision made because they were afraid they'd lose listeners over the issue? Or was this decision made because they feared some sort of legal action if they rejected the complaint? Maybe they did this because they were afraid of ending up in some sort of Human Rights Commission action or civil rights lawsuit.

Who actually made the decision. Was it made by business people who were concerned about their ratings? Or by some sort of legal advisor with an eye toward avoiding legal trouble? Or was it decided by some diversity consultant borrowed from a local university?

In a real "libertarian paradise" there wouldn't be any need for a "CBSC" and each broadcaster would establish their own standards. I suspect that this organization's reason for being is the fact that government regulations do exist, and to assist member broadcasters in avoiding legal trouble with regulators.

-k

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ノ(° -°ノ)

Posted

Extremism whether left or right becomes a religion. Religion has no place in politics or in the controling of art forms. Those that saw it fit to ban a great and well crafted piece of music are probably those that have not and will never create anything original in their lives...so they seek to find a reason to punish those that are gifted...and who have worked hard to develope a skill level in some arts area.

Posted (edited)

While the decision certainly was made by a non-government body, I would not be so quick to characterize it as an example of what you'd get in a "libertarian paradise".

Was this decision made because they were afraid they'd lose listeners over the issue? Or was this decision made because they feared some sort of legal action if they rejected the complaint? Maybe they did this because they were afraid of ending up in some sort of Human Rights Commission action or civil rights lawsuit.

Who actually made the decision. Was it made by business people who were concerned about their ratings? Or by some sort of legal advisor with an eye toward avoiding legal trouble? Or was it decided by some diversity consultant borrowed from a local university?

In a real "libertarian paradise" there wouldn't be any need for a "CBSC" and each broadcaster would establish their own standards. I suspect that this organization's reason for being is the fact that government regulations do exist, and to assist member broadcasters in avoiding legal trouble with regulators.

-k

Yes, I agree with all this, and was in fact being mischievous; aside from the fact that libertarians generally don't seem to have thought things through terribly well. There will always be a government, whether self-imposed ot elected; and if it's a private, wealthy, unelected one, I can't see that as superior to the "big government" we have now.

Edited by bloodyminded

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.

--Josh Billings

Posted

You don't or refuse to get the joke Jack!

I got the joke...It's an oldie but a goodie...

However,your constant displays of cryptic public wierdness lead me to believe you were being cryptic about your sexual preferences...again ...

The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

Posted

I got the joke...It's an oldie but a goodie...

However,your constant displays of cryptic public wierdness lead me to believe you were being cryptic about your sexual preferences...again ...

I TOTALLY MISSED THAT JAKE...OR JACK OR WHAT EVER YOUR NAME IS...Funny ever since I was a kid if someone said something evil or stupid - I would be deaf to it...it was a natural talent...as far as cryptic...I am not...I am centric and logical..where you my dear friend is off the wall and bouncing about....Now for the term "sexual perference" - what the hell does that mean Jack? Sex defined is male and female - anything else is not sex...and it seems that you seem a little pre-occupied by things that have nothing to do with sex...maybe you should be natural and forget all this modern stuff - and stupid stuff like "preference" - only an idiot perferes inferiour food.

Posted (edited)

I TOTALLY MISSED THAT JAKE...OR JACK OR WHAT EVER YOUR NAME IS...Funny ever since I was a kid if someone said something evil or stupid - I would be deaf to it...it was a natural talent...as far as cryptic...I am not...I am centric and logical..where you my dear friend is off the wall and bouncing about....Now for the term "sexual perference" - what the hell does that mean Jack? Sex defined is male and female - anything else is not sex...and it seems that you seem a little pre-occupied by things that have nothing to do with sex...maybe you should be natural and forget all this modern stuff - and stupid stuff like "preference" - only an idiot perferes inferiour food.

I like girls,gramps...And belss their little hearts,they seem to like me...

It's probably my rapier wit... :blink::lol:

On the positive side,I do enjoy watching your public displays of mental illness...

I highlight the strange Kerouakian prose above as evidence...

At least your not as bloodthirsty as that loon that keeps telling us he's going to cut the heads off of aetheists...

Edited by Jack Weber

The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

Posted

I like girls,gramps...And belss their little hearts,they seem to like me...

It's probably my rapier wit... :blink::lol:

On the positive side,I do enjoy watching your public displays of mental illness...

I highlight the strange Kerouakian prose above as evidence...

At least your not as bloodthirsty as that loon that keeps telling us he's going to cut the heads off of aetheists...

Hey jack everyone has an little illness..mental and physical...along with spiritual on occassion - It is a rough world to live in - especially if you are normal and good...such as I - and yes I stress out and type trying to relieve the shit dumped on me by barbarians .....and Jack my friend - I am not your average guy...I have been an artist - and muscian all my life - my job is to be mentally ill.... now it is note worthy to note it was YOU you had the dark thought of "to cut the heads off of aetheists" - not me...I would never think of such a thing...I keep my mental illness as a recreational thing - I don't take myself seriously.

Whats "Kerouakian" mean? Jack to bad this place will be coming to an end eventually - you sound like a guy that would make a good friend.

We could have gone hunting together in Alberta and I would have taught you to snap the neck of a duck.....but I simply would not really introduce you to such barbarity....why do I suddenly feel like Anthony Hopkins?

Posted (edited)

Hey jack everyone has an little illness..mental and physical...along with spiritual on occassion - It is a rough world to live in - especially if you are normal and good...such as I - and yes I stress out and type trying to relieve the shit dumped on me by barbarians .....and Jack my friend - I am not your average guy...I have been an artist - and muscian all my life - my job is to be mentally ill.... now it is note worthy to note it was YOU you had the dark thought of "to cut the heads off of aetheists" - not me...I would never think of such a thing...I keep my mental illness as a recreational thing - I don't take myself seriously.

Whats "Kerouakian" mean? Jack to bad this place will be coming to an end eventually - you sound like a guy that would make a good friend.

We could have gone hunting together in Alberta and I would have taught you to snap the neck of a duck.....but I simply would not really introduce you to such barbarity....why do I suddenly feel like Anthony Hopkins?

Look up Jack Kerouak...

Here's a tip...

Lay off the Absinthe...The Little Green Fairy does wierd things to the brain...

And this place will only come to an end if we allow ourselves to end it by acting like idiots...

Edited by Jack Weber

The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

Posted

Look up Jack Kerouak...

Here's a tip...

Lay off the Absinthe...The Little Green Fairy does wierd things to the brain...

And this place will only come to an end if we allow ourselves to end it by acting like idiots...

Oil of wood worm...awh...nothing like a toxin to intoxicate...so you have faith in this place?

okay...I will help...............now on a personal note - having sex with my X wife makes me nuts...I have personal issues and being 60 does not help..give it time Jack I will heal up..thanks for the support.

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