A scathing warning against why people shouldn't vote Harper in the

[guyser]

I've had this BOZO on IGNORE for over a year. I suggest more of you do the same.

Which BOZO..........the one above you? There are a few I guess.

[Jack Weber]

I'm kind of amazed that there would be much criticism of MLW for being too far left tbh.

I would suggest that it "seems" too far to the left because some of the con partisans have to deal with some of us who are centrist or do indeed lean to the left.

I would suggest that these are the freedominion types that require an ideological sounding board/echo chamber,and not an actually forum where different ideological ideas can be put forward.You'll find that these are the same folks who are demanding FoxNorth because they require "balance"...

The same can be said,however,for the left leaning bedwetters from bedwetter.ca(Rabble.ca),who think this is a right leaning website.I was called a "neocon asshole" and bedwetter.ca because I dared to say that what the leftist twits did to Anne Coulter last year was a cowardly and intellectually bereft act!And I can't stand Anne Coulter on a good day!Those types of people seem to think if one does'nt think the NDP should be running this country,and one is'nt claiming that Joseph Stalin was simply "misunderstood",then they must be a raging conservative libertarian.

Personally,I don't really think this site leans to one side or the other,which is far more preferrable to any place like Freedominion or Rabble...

The ideologues from both of those sites can go get stuffed!

[Jack Weber]

Which BOZO..........the one above you? There are a few I guess.

That particular bozo has been here slightly more than 4 months,has over 1200 posts,and most if not all are Kerouacian non-sequitors...

[scribblet]

I don't think there are any 'idealogues' from FD, maybe a couple from rubble, FD types are social conservatives, anti abortion, anti birth control and all about religion for the most part, not much of that on here.

[Jack Weber]

I don't think there are any 'idealogues' from FD, maybe a couple from rubble, FD types are social conservatives, anti abortion, anti birth control and all about religion for the most part, not much of that on here.

There's that...And those that slurp the US longingly,compulsively masturbate to photo's of Sarah Palin,and,think Obama is a closet Maoist/Marxist...All the while,screaming "The Left...The Left!!!!" at every ill in society...

There's alot of crosspolination between Freedominion and Freerepublic...Admittedly,the right wing fringe of society,however,there's a few of those here also.And that's fine,most people will see the nutters for what they are and simply disregard them...Or mock them ceaselessly...See Mr.Canada for reference...

However,there are a few from Bedwetter.ca (Rabble) here,and they are fairly obvious...

Edited January 7, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Bonam]

Yeah this board is pretty good in that you can occasionally get some actual discussion between opposing viewpoints that doesn't immediately degenerate into idiocy.

[Bonam]

Yeah this board is pretty good in that you can occasionally get some actual discussion between opposing viewpoints that doesn't immediately degenerate into idiocy. Of course, there are a lot of posters that fall outside those parameters, but still better than other forums I've tried looking at. Freedominion and rabble are both just plain stupid.

[Jack Weber]

Yeah this board is pretty good in that you can occasionally get some actual discussion between opposing viewpoints that doesn't immediately degenerate into idiocy.

I agree...

There are a few here(some may include myself ) that simply require constant mocking,if for no other reason than because their positions are completely unreasonable and are completely incapable a of being involved in a civil discussion...These are mostly the unreasonable ideologues on either side of the political spectrum...

[Saipan]

And those that slurp the US longingly,compulsively masturbate to photo's of Sarah Palin

while the left uses much more attractive pics of Fidel Castro posing on the beach in speedo.

[kimmy]

The guy shouldn't be in Ottawa, he should be in the Hague in his war crimes case unless he does the right thing and follows in hitlers footsteps and saves a bunch of time for everyone in getting to the point.

Hitlarpers gotta go,...

everybody now..

Hit........

On a message board where referring to Michael Ignatieff as "Iggy" has provoked Extreme Moderator Intervention on several occasions, I'm surprised that "Hitlarper" has been allowed.

You're a joke, William. There's no polite way to say it. Anybody who'd try to equate any Canadian politician with Adolf Hitler is clearly afflicted with either crippling stupidity or a delusional psychosis of some kind.

You should return to Rabble and stay there. They'd appreciate you.

-k

[William Ashley]

Now I remember why I stopped visiting this forum. But let's go with it and have a debate. I'll take the position the you are closer to Hilter (Ashitler) the Stephen Harper is.

I'm open to debate but the issue of ad hominem is rather large since I'll be defending myself... I'll just pull the ad hominem card if what you state is lies, otherwise I geuss it is fair game - but we should keep things on topic, so try to draw the parallels from the subjects in the opening post. OK?

My first point would be that Harper, amidst criticism, has taken an unprecedented stance in support of Israel. Hitler attempted to eradicate the Jews. This would make their actions polar opposite. Did you stand with Harper or were you among his critics who labelled it 'unCanadian.'

1. Israel isn't "the Jews". Realize that Israel is a group of mostly Jewish people. It has been cast as a "national homeland" for Jews. But it occupied non Jewish lands, and non jews were allowed to be second class citizens. Totally defeating this purpose and causing ongoing conflict. Part of the issue was that land was aquired illegally and the rules of immigraiton to Transjordan were broken. The whole thing was poorly implemented from the start, and that is unfortunate. I am someone who thinks much more could have been accomplisehd by having them move to Madagascar, while allowing them to openly become involved in Transjordan politics - without enforcing a mandate to force suprajuris change.

I'm circumsized and I accepted an engagement to a person whose family is orthadox Jew. My own religion includes Judaism - as I am world faith, meaning I incorporate all religions and put it accordingly.

My stance on Israel is that both Israel and other Islamic and/or Arab states need to manage their own affairs. Do unto others as you would do unto yourself, it is a golden rule. The problem is is that when these exchanges by militants on both sides of the fences happen, innocent people get hurt or killed, and it just perpetuates more blood to be spilled. Things like the Israeli settlements are touchy subjects on both sides and within Israel. Israeli's I've spoken with seem to indicate that most Israeli's really generally don't want problems or violence. There is a group though, that tends to respond very strongly, this group is a powerful minority in Israel.

I am far more concerned with not only Canada-Israeli relations - but with Canadian Arab relations, because it comprises a much larger land area, and much larger population, thus should be higher prioritized. This doesn't mean abandoning the Israeli's. It means doing stuff that helps both and hurts niether. Human nature is to be satisfied with life, not in constant chaos, only madmen desire chaos.

My own foreign affairs position is rather business minded and open immigration - very neutral. Harper is a pro zionist, and I don't find that healthy. I'm not against jews but I fid pro zionism to be blinded especially when it ignores human rights abuses and other inhumane acts. I think we have a moral responsibility to promote humanism, not evil, as a mattter of practices. This isn't saying Israel is the only one doing these things, but supporting anyone doing them is a problem - it is even worse when you are the one doing and supporting doing them, but covering it up as Stepehn Harper did. I find that problematic. It is one of the character flaws in Stephen Harper I can't accept, his willingness to support human rights abuses and torture. That isn't my image of Canada that I want to support.

Hitler was a bit the same, a lot of the supposed projects that tortured people were kept as "secret projects", even though governments like the US in operation paperclip monopolized on the miseries of those test subjects.

I think there are better ways than fighting a war than barbaric practices. It is absolutely mad that in 10 years they couldn't subdue Afghanistan without resorting to breaking the international rules of war and human rights codes.

It is a stain in time on all people that supported them. Increasing the size of the blot ain't helping anyones future and only tearing down humanity and all things good.

My second point would be that you have said Harper shouldn't be in Ottawa. In a true democracy you only have one vote yet you've taken the stance that the country should follow your will. Like Hitler.

I don't know where this is coming from.

Democracies started when people got together and voted on an issue, not on a person.

My third point would be Hitler didn't know he was crazy. Your turn.

Once again I don't see your point. Hilter wasn't crazy he was heroic and furried against his foes so stated. Hitler while being aspired to some very great for lack of a better word vanquishments on grace - or defeats of humanity, also accomplished many majestic things. When using Hitlarper though I'm referencing mostly to totalitarian beliefs, dictatorness, and using Mulsims/Terrorists as a scape goat for removing citizens rights when uncanadian turns into another Stephen Harper imposed patriot act. It is the idea of a police state, and one without rule of law. The rules on top are just being broken, and that combined with centralization IS NOT GOOD for the people.

I have yet to see how I am like Hitler. Quite frankly one of the only things we likely have in common is our love of History and Roman Arts and Sciences.

I think Hitler and Harper both have the issue of seeing the value of all human emotion and weighing that into their decisions. There are however still unknowns in the past so I can't speak with a totally clear source. It is where you put the line on human value, as soon as you have disregard for human suffering, in any leader, it is a problem for everyone.

Compassion is an important trait in leadership. it is something both Hitler and Harper appeared to have lacked. It is when you draw that line against any species subrace or subculture of emotion bearing life. I don't have all the answers I can't see inside their heads, I can only see what they appear to have supported. The reasons may not be known. I can't see a good reason to cover up and support continued torture of people. This is something even George W. Bush didn't do, he admitted to it. CIA torture practices officially were also stated to be scaled down - I'm not sure if this happened.

Covering up stuff like this is backward. If you can't admit to it and say it was a mistake or give some apology or excuse then you don't have a reason to allow it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States

International law defines torture during an armed conflict as a war crime. It also mandates that any person involved in ordering, allowing and even insuffuciently preventing and prosecuting war crimes is criminally liable under the command responsibility doctrine

Edited January 8, 2011 by William Ashley

[Evening Star]

FWIW, as an admittedly occasional Rabble reader and poster (I found it after I found this site actually), I don't recognize William's screen name or posting style from the Babble board at all. I don't think he's a 'Rabble troll' or somesuch. I'm not even sure that most of his views are typical of Rabble or of Canadian leftists/progressives generally.

I hope that reading Rabble sometimes doesn't get me labelled as an ideologue. I mainly read both of these boards to learn: Some of the debates here have been very challenging illuminating for me.

[kimmy]

FWIW, as an admittedly occasional Rabble reader and poster (I found it after I found this site actually), I don't recognize William's screen name or posting style from the Babble board at all. I don't think he's a 'Rabble troll' or somesuch. I'm not even sure that most of his views are typical of Rabble or of Canadian leftists/progressives generally.

I hope that reading Rabble sometimes doesn't get me labelled as an ideologue. I mainly read both of these boards to learn: Some of the debates here have been very challenging illuminating for me.

I read Babble once in a while. It's always interesting to see different points of view. I even posted there for a few weeks a few years back. There were some thoughtful people there. However, there are also a fair number of complete fruitcakes who are so far off the rhetorical deep-end that they would wholeheartedly agree with Willie's "Harper = Hitler" rant.

Personally, I occasionally look in on Rabble/Babble to see their reaction to things like the Ottawa bank bombing, or the Toronto 17 convictions, or so-on. If you want to hear people make excuses for convicted terrorists, or try to rationalize the bank bombing ("direct action!"), Babble's the place to go.

-k

[scribblet]

I read Babble once in a while. It's always interesting to see different points of view. I even posted there for a few weeks a few years back. There were some thoughtful people there. However, there are also a fair number of complete fruitcakes who are so far off the rhetorical deep-end that they would wholeheartedly agree with Willie's "Harper = Hitler" rant.

Personally, I occasionally look in on Rabble/Babble to see their reaction to things like the Ottawa bank bombing, or the Toronto 17 convictions, or so-on. If you want to hear people make excuses for convicted terrorists, or try to rationalize the bank bombing ("direct action!"), Babble's the place to go.

-k

Totally agree, I used to look in now and then but can't be bothered anymore, I have little respect for forums that do not allow opposing opinions, and actually seem to be shilling for terrorists, Rabble is one, although unlike some, I think they admit it up front. Other forums don't, they pretend to be diverse but are as bad (as rabble).

[waldo]

Totally agree, I used to look in now and then but can't be bothered anymore, I have little respect for forums that do not allow opposing opinions, and actually seem to be shilling for terrorists, Rabble is one

obviously, anyone, with any opinion can post there; I expect your assessment of Rabble reflects upon it's members propensity to challenge the blathering of right-wing sycophants.

[Evening Star]

It's a board with a different purpose than this one, spelled out here: http://www.rabble.ca/about/babblepolicy . It's not, and afaik has never been, meant to be a totally open discussion board like this one. It is intended as a space for people who agree on certain principles (generally speaking, people who are somewhat to the left of the current Liberal party). That still does include a wide range of opinion from progressive-leaning Liberals to extreme communists and anarchists (who afaict are a minority even there). If someone wants their basic values challenged, they can come to a different board such as MLW. With that understanding, I haven't found the level or civility of discourse to be any worse there than it is here. I find extreme views and attitudes in both places.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Evening Star

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think there are any 'idealogues' from FD, maybe a couple from rubble, FD types are social conservatives, anti abortion, anti birth control and all about religion for the most part, not much of that on here.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Michael Hardner

[Scotty]

http://rabble.ca/news/2011/01/ten-reasons-oppose-harper-candidate-your-riding

I tend to think people really should be warry due to the unchangable damage.

What is "unchangeable damage".

As for the person you quote from Rabble, even a cursory scan showed her reasons to be silly and one-sidedly political. She starts out by saying Mulroney ran up a debt, then Chretien paid it off, now Harper has run up a debt again! That's so terribly simplistic and unfair I can't imagine anyone here won't recognize it.

[Scotty]

I agree.

Yes, it is patently silly.

[Scotty]

Moonbox, don't you think that is up to Charles to judge that?

I don't believe the moderators routinely look at the site, but only respond to individual complaints.

[Scotty]

I've had this BOZO on IGNORE for over a year. I suggest more of you do the same.

Difficult to escape the effects, nevertheless, with 17 of his topics on the front page.

[Scotty]

On a message board where referring to Michael Ignatieff as "Iggy" has provoked Extreme Moderator Intervention on several occasions, I'm surprised that "Hitlarper" has been allowed.

And how many people who are complaining about him, aside from me five minutes ago, have reported his inflammatory post?

[jbg]

Abetting war crimes.. shutting down parliament to cover up complaicency with human rights abuse and torture!

To quote a response in another similar thread you started, "has someone prorogued your brain"? Or is Harper a perseverative obsession with you?"

[jbg]

Forget anything from Rabble, they list so far to portside they are not credible, same with these type of posts.

I was banned from Rabble a few times. The first time was when I posted under a screen name called "Love Billy Goat" for suggesting that gay marriage didn't go far enough, that we should allow marriage among up to any four mammals, as long as one was a human over the age of 14. I guess I was too liberal for them.

Bumblebees and communication towers? Shut up. Please.

You said it all.