William Ashley Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) So if Canada is doing so well compared to the G7 why is it 6th place out of 7. This doesn't seem like - doing much better than the other industrialized nations, it appears it is doing worse than all them. More idle propaganda from the Conservative Party of Canada? Or is Stephen Harper reading things upside down? http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/no-longer-no-1-canadas-economy-struggling-keep-20110102-070009-479.html Edited January 3, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Battletoads Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 Harpers been living off the successes of past governments for some time, looks like that strategy is starting to collapse. I'd hope for an elction but every other leader seems almost as incompetent as Harper... almost. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Topaz Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 Well those CEO's of those companies are doing well. A report out todays says that 100 CEO's AVERAGE pay was 6.6Mil. The average Canadian worker makes about $42,988.00 and the minimum wage worker makes $19,877.00, which must be very hard to live on with the increases in taxes etc. It has to be worse for the part timers who make under the $19,0000. There was a prediction about the wide spread betweem the poor and the rich and actually knocking down and out the middle-class. So even though the economy is not doing well, their CEO's just like the politicans are going a lot better than us! http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110103/payment-for-canadian-CEOs-110103/20110103/?hub=TorontoNewHome Quote
Wild Bill Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 So if Canada is doing so well compared to the G7 why is it 6th place out of 7. This doesn't seem like - doing much better than the other industrialized nations, it appears it is doing worse than all them. More idle propaganda from the Conservative Party of Canada? Or is Stephen Harper reading things upside down? http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/no-longer-no-1-canadas-economy-struggling-keep-20110102-070009-479.html There's a very old joke that if you have 3 accountants in a room you will have 4 opinions. At the time Harper started his bragging things did look more positive for us. However, some negative factors take some time to develop. Our banks were in better shape but our manufacturing base was early on in its downward slide. As our dollar firmed up our profit margins were eroded on our exports, since we are usually paid in U$D. Politicians of any stripe are incapable of looking beyond the next few months. They had obvious positives and most of the negatives required foresight and imagination to see. No surprise that Harper tooted the horn to say that Canada was in good shape! Also, politicans tend to think that everything depends on perception and hype. If they can lead a rousing cheer and get everyone feeling good then bad things will be averted and good things will happen. Lots of folks saw the warning signs a year or more ago but they were dismissed as doomsayers. Now those negative factors have had enough time to grow and show up in the analysis. So, now everyone can see them and Harper has to deal with them. Big deal! That's how life works! Stuff happens. Harper is not personally responsible for most if not all of those negatives. He is TOTALLY responsible for how he handles them! We can't blame him if it rains but we can blame him for not getting the roof fixed. This will likely put Harper in a BETTER position for an election! Polls have consistently shown that Harper is considered the more capable PM choice, even by many who don't like him. As I have repeatedly said, it's not enough to knock an incumbent. You also have to show that the alternative is a better choice. Ignatieff just doesn't seem to be able to do that! He is Harper's best electoral asset. Things would have to get REALLY bad, enough to force people into total desperation, before they would abandon Harper in favour of the Liberal choice! That extreme is not likely. The Liberals need a more charismatic leader before they have a chance to knock Harper out. Harper is perceived as rather wooden and stiff. What does it say about Ignatieff that he has been unable to capitalize on that? He appears to be even more wooden and stiff! An academic with his head in the clouds. Not as bad as Dion but still hardly someone inspiring. If the truth be told, our politicians have very limited choices in what to do about the economy. All they can do is try to make a fertile climate and then hope that business will jump in and do the job for them. A healthy economy doesn't come from adding people to the Canada Post payroll. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Saipan Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 "Conservative Economy not doing as well as they would like us to believe" Those who put their money where their mouth is disagree with that statement. And invest in Canada. All international investors. Our dollar already surpassed US$. Quite a change from Chretein's days, when everytime Chretien went south to tell Wall Street our economy is not so bad our dollar fell even lower. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 A study sponsored by the Canadian Auto Workers Union. So......we bail these guys out with billions of taxpayer dollars from both the Provincial and Federal governments and what do these guys do? Clammer for more! It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Quote Back to Basics
Moonbox Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 Yeah he's probably the last economist I would trust. What did he base his numbers off of as well? Growth numbers from the last 2 quarters. Who was hit the least by the recession? Canada. Who would therefore have the least ground to make up for? Canada. His numbers are wack. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Pliny Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 So if Canada is doing so well compared to the G7 why is it 6th place out of 7. This doesn't seem like - doing much better than the other industrialized nations, it appears it is doing worse than all them. More idle propaganda from the Conservative Party of Canada? Or is Stephen Harper reading things upside down? http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/no-longer-no-1-canadas-economy-struggling-keep-20110102-070009-479.html It sounds to me like you are saying Stephen Harper totally controls the economy, since he is ultimately responsible for it, and is deliberately messing it up while someone else (??) would do a much finer job. The article is attempting to present some controversy by quoting an obviously politically slanted economist. I think he would get along just fine with the likes of Paul Krugman. The economist quoted, Jim Stanford of the Canadian Auto-workers Association, believes that government does and should hold the reins of the economy and presents an opinion that Harper is failing in his mandate. As Wild Bill pointed out governments don't entirely control the economy but they do have tools to set a "fertile climate". Sometimes their policies are not conducive to the promotion of economic growth and sometimes they overheat an economy but the economy is primarily produced by what business perceives to be the woof and warp of the market. Government intervention in the market has to be taken into account by those active in it. It does no good to open an oil refinery if government is going to make it too costly to do so. So the basic left wing economic philosophy is that government should be intervening in the market and "controlling" the economy through such regulatory processes and it's other fiscal tools, and certainly the prime consideration of governments in doing so is the stabilization of wages and prices. If this can be accomplished then the result is a stable economy but...it also stabilizes the tax base and revenues of government so that they can determine their budgets and meet their financial obligations. So basically what left wing economists miss is that governments in setting the climate for the market are not the market. Mr. Stanford of the Autoworkers, believes the market only exists because of government controls. Really, government doing it's duty of eliminating criminality and fraud is about the only thing it should be doing to make a stable economy but it insists on engineering it instead of just policing it, granting privilege to some over others, such as through subsidies or taxation, or things like minimum wages that keep people out of the work force and protect the those who are already working - at least until the minimum wage is raised again and then a reassessment will result in the loss of some of those protected jobs. It grants monopolies to some corporations among a myriad of other things. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Pliny Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 Help form the social party of Canada - a party dedicated to removing income taxes, eradicating the federal debt, and easing process - and most of all insuring social liberty for Canadians at the federal level. 'Social party of Canada' is not 'Socialist party of Canada'http://williamashley...OCIAL/SP/SP.htm not http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/ SOCIAL PARTY is foundational - socialist party is a very REAL active party. Do not confuse the two. I suppose this should be taken up on another thread but just to comment on the Social party of Canada if you did not wish to have it confused with the Socialist party of Canada why call it the Social party of Canada? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
nicky10013 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 This will likely put Harper in a BETTER position for an election! Polls have consistently shown that Harper is considered the more capable PM choice, even by many who don't like him. As I have repeatedly said, it's not enough to knock an incumbent. You also have to show that the alternative is a better choice. Ignatieff just doesn't seem to be able to do that! He is Harper's best electoral asset. Things would have to get REALLY bad, enough to force people into total desperation, before they would abandon Harper in favour of the Liberal choice! That extreme is not likely. The Liberals need a more charismatic leader before they have a chance to knock Harper out. Harper is perceived as rather wooden and stiff. What does it say about Ignatieff that he has been unable to capitalize on that? He appears to be even more wooden and stiff! An academic with his head in the clouds. Not as bad as Dion but still hardly someone inspiring. From Jeffrey Simpson - staffer in Mulroney's government. What you're saying and what everyone else is saying probably is a good thing for Ignatieff. The bar for him in a campaign has been set so low that even if he came out and ran a campaign a hair above incompetency he'd still blow everyone away. I'm not saying he'll win an election, but don't write him off. Nothing changes until there's a campaign. It's been the rule in Canadian politics since we had politics. People need to gossip, though, and papers need headlines, so we'll get the same stalemate crap until there's a writ. Some people claim politics doesn't matter in the summer because no one pays attention. More and more I think that's the truth year round until something horrible happens or until people have to pay attention, not just the small group of junkies that populate these boards. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/life-cycle-of-an-opposition-leader/article1848365/ Think for a moment, please. What do Robert Stanfield, Joe Clark, Brian Mulroney, John Turner, Jean Chrétien, Preston Manning, Stephen Harper, Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff have in common?They’ve all been leaders of the opposition, representing the Conservative, Reform and Liberal parties. And while they were in opposition, without exception, they were less popular than the prime minister. More related to this story Some of these opposition leaders became prime minister; some did not. It didn’t matter who was prime minister or what party he represented. The prime minister was always more popular than the leader of the opposition, even at the prime minister’s worst moments. It wasn’t fair, and it wasn’t always justified. It didn’t make the prime minister a better person, or even necessarily a more reflective, determined leader. But that was the way it was, and is. Even when prime ministers were at the abyss of their popularity – Pierre Trudeau, say, in 1977 or 1978; or Mr. Mulroney in 1986-87 – they scored better in the polls than the leaders of the opposition. Mr. Stanfield, a wonderfully intelligent, reflective man, was considered too stodgy against Mr. Trudeau; Mr. Clark too youthful and prone to errors. Mr. Turner got crushed in the 1984 campaign against Mr. Mulroney and never recovered, even though he’d been the more popular of the two while briefly prime minister. Mr. Chrétien was a lousy opposition leader, and was dismissed by many as “yesterday’s man.” Some yesterday, some man. He then won three consecutive elections. Quote
wyly Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 "Conservative Economy not doing as well as they would like us to believe" Those who put their money where their mouth is disagree with that statement. And invest in Canada. All international investors. Our dollar already surpassed US$. Quite a change from Chretein's days, when everytime Chretien went south to tell Wall Street our economy is not so bad our dollar fell even lower. you've a very weak grasp of economics...our dollar hasn't surpassed the US dollar the US dollar is what is suffering our dollar surpassing the US dollar is not a good thing for our economy... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 From Jeffrey Simpson - staffer in Mulroney's government. Jeffery Simpson has never been a staffer to any politician Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
nicky10013 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 Jeffery Simpson has never been a staffer to any politician You're right. I had him mixed up with Spector. Doesn't make anything he wrote not true, however. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 "Conservative Economy not doing as well as they would like us to believe" Those who put their money where their mouth is disagree with that statement. And invest in Canada. All international investors. Our dollar already surpassed US$. Quite a change from Chretein's days, when everytime Chretien went south to tell Wall Street our economy is not so bad our dollar fell even lower. People who don't understand economics always associate dollar strength as a source of pride not realizing that a low dollar helped Canada's export industry tremendously. The lower the dollar, the cheaper our goods and the more easier they're sold to countries around the world and most importantly the US. Not surprisingly since Harper has allowed the Canadian dollar to gain strength and with a combination of US weakness, record record trade surpluses under Chretien and Martin have turned completely around and now we're running record trade deficits. You may be proud because the dollar is strong but when it comes down to it, it hurts our economy. Quote
Saipan Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 you've a very weak grasp of economics... You're scaring me. That wopuld be very bad news for my Commodity investments, that so far were doing great. our dollar hasn't surpassed the US dollar the US dollar is what is suffering Did you check US$ vs. EURO? Quote
wyly Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 You're scaring me. That wopuld be very bad news for my Commodity investments, that so far were doing great. Did you check US$ vs. EURO? the US dollar is what is relevant as they're our main trading partner Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Saipan Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 the US dollar is what is relevant as they're our main trading partner Exactly. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Posted January 4, 2011 Exactly. Exactly, so what does the Euro have to do with anything? Quote
William Ashley Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) I suppose this should be taken up on another thread but just to comment on the Social party of Canada if you did not wish to have it confused with the Socialist party of Canada why call it the Social party of Canada? Off topic - feel open to pm me about things like this in the future. In the mid 1990's when it started forming an attempt was made to determine where it was in the political spectrum it was at first the thought was more socialist leaning. "common ownership" (the area where the government should administer) "cooperative management" (we should all be involved in decision making that effects us, all be enfranchised) "relatively equal power relations (egalitarianism) , self-management, collective decision-making (through an array of councils where 1 vote is 1 vote) and adhocracy (based upon a changing registered vote that can be reassigned at any time - processing taken into account) , bureaucratic forms of organization in the economic and political systems " How ever the extremes of socialism (marxism/communism/fascism) didn't fully express the view. Also the thing is that it is more libertarian, fiscally conservative, free market and humanist. Social represents people that get together for common interests, and that in line with the social credit party, that it really is all of us who are active that can make a difference. Social Credit and Socialism came together in that sense - however only partially in line with that thought. The main difference of Social is that it is libertarian and egalitarian. Where it stands now isn't revolutionary. Some main interests that have structured plans for are: removing income taxes removing the debt (and other needed financial measures) Instituting pay for budget options - trusts paid for by the public for the programs they would like to contribute to (but still administered by the government or public private crown crown corps (where those that donate have stock - that is establishing public corporations. (The NFP/FP divide would be removed without taxes) but classes of corporations would exist. "a right to work program that is self supportive" restructing the Federal Government to conform with the constitution instituting advisory councils - that are more democratic for stakeholders in Canada justice reform to improve the courts by making them freely accessable at all levels, putting a higher precedence on restitution and rehabilitation through work programs, removing the mental health stream from the criminal justice stream It is a social movement inspired basis, the government is still responsible for the people, so it has to utilize the people, and take input from the people to take care of their interests. Due to law the people do have the means to control production, and they have the capacity to trade amongst themselves - all be it with potential taxation. It is really a capacitating policy basis. To remove the barriers, and improve society. Social means You can see these things on the website. 1. pertaining to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations: a social club. 2. seeking or enjoying the companionship of others; friendly; sociable; gregarious. 3. of, pertaining to, connected with, or suited to polite or fashionable society: a social event. 4. living or disposed to live in companionship with others or in a community, rather than in isolation: People are social beings. 5. of or pertaining to human society, esp. as a body divided into classes according to status: social rank. 6. involved in many social activities: We're so busy working, we have to be a little less social now. 7. of or pertaining to the life, welfare, and relations of human beings in a community: social problems. 8. noting or pertaining to activities designed to remedy or alleviate certain unfavorable conditions of life in a community, esp. among the poor. 9. pertaining to or advocating socialism. 10. Zoology . living habitually together in communities, as bees or ants. Compare solitary ( def. 8 ) . 11. Botany . growing in patches or clumps. 12. Rare . occurring or taking place between allies or confederates. –noun 13. a social gathering or party, esp. of or as given by an organized group: a church social It is about living it. It is about living, it is about making a "Free Society" but protecting the disadvantaged, and disaffected. Government needs to concentrate on those people to make society inclusive. It is the worse off that need to be managed, not people that are happy with where they are and have their needs provided. It isn't about penalizing people who havn't integrated, and it isn't about forcing conformity on those who don't want to intergrate. It is mearly a mechanism, not totalitarianism. So social means - involved in society, looking out for your nieghbour and your nieghbours nieghbour while taking care of yourself, that is what the Social Party is people helping people but not forcing help on people. It is about raising the base and everything else along with it. Edited January 4, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Saipan Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Exactly, so what does the Euro have to do with anything? With meandering US$ falling is reason for Canadian dollar rise.. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 With meandering US$ falling is reason for Canadian dollar rise.. Maybe the Euro has been falling. It's a dynamic market. Then again I should've understood, anymore than 2 dimensions and you go comatose. Quote
Saipan Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Maybe the Euro has been falling. And our dollar is rising. It's a dynamic market. Always was and always will. Quote
William Ashley Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) And our dollar is rising. Always was and always will. Is it... why not print some money and pay down the debt? You know 20k ontop of the 120k+ Canadians are already in debt. Why not print oh 50 billion and balance the budget early? As the Canadian Dollar rises, so does domestic debt in Canadian dollars... with a 8% rise in the dollar.. that is an 8% rise in the value of the debt. With a population with over 100k in personal debt that is $8000 this year in additional debt on each Canadian. It is actually more though. A rising dollar isn't good for the public, and it is bad for exports. Goods don't go down much in value either because most profit in retail is locked up in employee wages, or diverted to corporate taxes -, and corporations keep a lower rate. Print and pay down the debt. Canada has what 600 billion in currency? printing 50 billion if it deflates the value by 10% will lower the dollar to 90 and relive canadians from about 256 billion in debt.. oh and how much does the government make from that much taxes... oh what? that much from all income taxes.. why is it indebting the public? GIVE RELIEF!!! END THE HIDDEN TAX .. why give each canadian $8000 in additional secret taxes.. STEPHEN HARPER WHY ARE YOU HURTING THE PUBLIC IN THE POCKET BOOKS? The banks get it anyway. Why not improve both the public, business sector and government positions? This was a year ago http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100216/household_debt_100216/ Edited January 6, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Saipan Posted January 6, 2011 Report Posted January 6, 2011 Is it... why not print some money and pay down the debt? We are doing better than most other countries. We won't chase out the goose that lay the golden eggs. Remember what happen to German Mark after WW I and Mexico more recently. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Posted January 6, 2011 We are doing better than most other countries. We won't chase out the goose that lay the golden eggs. Remember what happen to German Mark after WW I and Mexico more recently. But but but, the dollar is rising and it always will! Quote
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