War in Sudan set to begin in 11 days

[Scotty]

I confess to being unaware of the upcoming referendum. I have no idea why Sudan's rulers accepted it if they have no intention of accepting the results.

I can see where it would be in the interests of just about everyone other than Sudan's muslims if the majority of the oil were to fall under the control of non-Muslims. But given the condition of the new 'country' I wonder how much of the new oil wealth will be used to help the people, and how much will enrich the new leaders.

Globe and Mail - Birth of a nation

Edited December 29, 2010 by Scotty

[bjre]

It is just a CIA supported war.

US want the war.

CIA/US is the original source of the most wars after WW2

Obama is not worth to trust just like Bush.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=17537&view=findpost&p=602892

[bush_cheney2004]

It is just a CIA supported war.

US want the war.

CIA/US is the original source of the most wars after WW2

Obama is not worth to trust just like Bush.

Why would you "trust" any American president?

[Moonlight Graham]

If it's about oil revenues, then broker a new deal with the south getting, say, 70% of the oil profits (but having 80% of the oil) instead of the 50% it now gets. The north avoids losing all that extra oil profit, the south gets more oil money, and both avoid a bloody war.

The big losers would be the outsiders looking for oil and ideological victories.

[Scotty]

It is just a CIA supported war.

US want the war.

According to the article both Russia and China have now dropped their opposition to the referendum and are trying to get oil contracts with the new government.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The big losers would be the outsiders looking for oil and ideological victories.

What's the big deal....sounds like just another day in Canada over the Albertan oil patch.

[M.Dancer]

It is just a CIA supported war.

US want the war.

CIA/US is the original source of the most wars after WW2

Obama is not worth to trust just like Bush.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=17537&view=findpost&p=602892

CHINA WIN< CHINA NUMBER 10

[scribblet]

Have to admit that I too wasn't up on this until recently, China is bidding on the pipeline now and it sure looks as if there will be a war. Watch for pipeline bombings etc. etc.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/12/29/lawrence-solomon-to-islams-dismay-a-new-oil-nation-is-born/

In January, the Western world will welcome a new nation, South Sudan. The Islamic world will not. The coming independence of South Sudan, which holds most of the oil in the country now called Sudan, marks a loss of territory and of wealth for the Islamic world. Worse for Islam and Sudan, more losses may follow in black African areas that refused to become Islamicized.

Are they on the brink of genocide ?

Edited December 30, 2010 by scribblet

[Moonlight Graham]

Are they on the brink of genocide ?

More like civil war.

[eyeball]

The big losers would be the outsiders looking for oil and ideological victories.

Not to mention any that are facing separatist pressures at home if and when recognition of a new state is called for.

[scribblet]

More like civil war.

But that could result in genocide of one side, especially if no oil sharing revenue agreement is made - and back to the stone age of hard line Sharia law for the North if the south cecedes.

[Scotty]

But that could result in genocide of one side, especially if no oil sharing revenue agreement is made - and back to the stone age of hard line Sharia law for the North if the south cecedes.

I think genocide has already been tried. And while I have no personal knowledge of the situation the author seems to be indicating that northern African nations might well support the new country mlitarily, and that they might also find backing in the form of arms and equipment from a number of non-african nations.

[jbg]

I confess to being unaware of the upcoming referendum. I have no idea why Sudan's rulers accepted it if they have no intention of accepting the results.

From what I hear the North was losing on the battlefield and important elements are tired of the constant fighting. Muslims are better at slaughtering innocents than fighting real battles.

[jbg]

This article, excerpted below (link to full article), reminds me of another situation where the Arabs have eternally fought the separation of a non-Muslim area; now known as the State of Israel. Maybe southern Nigeria, a/k/a Biafra, will see the light as well. Then the Muslims overall could lose their stranglehold on the world's oil. Productive people can rejoice; leaches can eat sand.

In January, the Western world will welcome a new nation, South Sudan. The Islamic world will not. The coming independence of South Sudan, which holds most of the oil in the country now called Sudan, marks a loss of territory and of wealth for the Islamic world. Worse for Islam and Sudan, more losses may follow in black African areas that refused to become Islamicized.

Sudan, Africa’s largest country, is Islamic and Arabic in the north, Christian or animist and black in the south. Following an independence referendum January 9, the black south, an area the size of France, is expected to secede, taking with it 80% of Sudan’s five-billion barrels of oil and thus most of Sudan’s foreign exchange.

************************

It is the West that engineered South Sudan’s secession by arranging a referendum under UN auspices and it is the West that has secretly helped arm South Sudan. Last week, Russia joined the club of non-Islamic nations aligned against Sudan, reversing its opposition to South Sudan’s independence and, seeing an opportunity for its own oil industry, bringing combat helicopters to South Sudan to help provide the fledgling country with security. Others aiding South Sudan include Christian Kenya, through which most of its arms arrive, Christian Ethiopia, and Israel, which has played an outsized role in establishing South Sudan.

Read more:

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/12/29/lawrence-solomon-to-islams-dismay-a-new-oil-nation-is-born/#ixzz1A1IYYkw5

Read more: http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/12/29/lawrence-solomon-to-islams-dismay-a-new-oil-nation-is-born/#ixzz1A1I3UiOb

[JB Globe]

Muslims are better at slaughtering innocents than fighting real battles.

Que the daily "whoops, I actually meant Islamists/extremists and not all the world's Muslims" retraction.

[JB Globe]

Maybe southern Nigeria, a/k/a Biafra, will see the light as well. Then the Muslims overall could lose their stranglehold on the world's oil.

The Nigerian Civil War was a regional war centred on ethno-linguistic lines between Igbo folks in Biafra who resented Yoruban-dominated Lagos from fleecing most of the money from oil profits.

Both groups are majority Christian in Nigeria, with more Yorubans practicing Ifa, their traditional religion.

But I digress - if you're so concerned with sending money to the Saudis, I'm going to assume you've made personal lifestyle changes to avoid consuming oil, and that your words aren't completely hollow, right?

[JB Globe]

With China & Russia backing South Sudan now, I have a feeling the "war" may be rather limited, and done just for political showmanship in the north - I don't think the Chinese or Russians would take kindly to the North attacking their investments.

And privately (I believe it was in a wikileaks cable) most Arab states are tired of having to defend the north against allegations of genocide and aggression.

I hope it doesn't get nasty - the south has already been through far too much.

[Guest TrueMetis]

This article, excerpted below (link to full article), reminds me of another situation where the Arabs have eternally fought the separation of a non-Muslim area; now known as the State of Israel. Maybe southern Nigeria, a/k/a Biafra, will see the light as well. Then the Muslims overall could lose their stranglehold on the world's oil. Productive people can rejoice; leaches can eat sand.

Arab =/ Muslim, there are about as many Christian Arabs as there are Jews, and while the middle east has a decent chunk of the worlds oil the Islamic world has never controlled a significant amount.

Oil Reserves

Muslim population

[jbg]

Que the daily "whoops, I actually meant Islamists/extremists and not all the world's Muslims" retraction.

Spell it "queue" or "cue". Also on this one not so fast. The non-militants in a country such as Egypt are derelict in their responsibility to curb the pervasive persecution and dehumanization of their minorities.

[JB Globe]

Spell it "queue" or "cue". Also on this one not so fast. The non-militants in a country such as Egypt are derelict in their responsibility to curb the pervasive persecution and dehumanization of their minorities.

I didn't know all the world's Muslims live in Egypt.

Your statement is still idiotic.

If it were true, we'd be in a global war and you'd be crying for your mother on some battlefield you got drafted into.

Edited January 4, 2011 by JB Globe

[jbg]

I didn't know all the world's Muslims live in Egypt.

Your statement is still idiotic.

If it were true, we'd be in a global war and you'd be crying for your mother on some battlefield you got drafted into.

No, it's idiots like you that wind up surrendering the benefits of civilization to destruction by barbarians. I'm sure many Romans like you found it better to debate the niceties of distinctions among Barbarians rather than facing the threat.

[nicky10013]

This article, excerpted below (link to full article), reminds me of another situation where the Arabs have eternally fought the separation of a non-Muslim area; now known as the State of Israel. Maybe southern Nigeria, a/k/a Biafra, will see the light as well. Then the Muslims overall could lose their stranglehold on the world's oil. Productive people can rejoice; leaches can eat sand.

In January, the Western world will welcome a new nation, South Sudan. The Islamic world will not. The coming independence of South Sudan, which holds most of the oil in the country now called Sudan, marks a loss of territory and of wealth for the Islamic world. Worse for Islam and Sudan, more losses may follow in black African areas that refused to become Islamicized.

Sudan, Africa’s largest country, is Islamic and Arabic in the north, Christian or animist and black in the south. Following an independence referendum January 9, the black south, an area the size of France, is expected to secede, taking with it 80% of Sudan’s five-billion barrels of oil and thus most of Sudan’s foreign exchange.

************************

It is the West that engineered South Sudan’s secession by arranging a referendum under UN auspices and it is the West that has secretly helped arm South Sudan. Last week, Russia joined the club of non-Islamic nations aligned against Sudan, reversing its opposition to South Sudan’s independence and, seeing an opportunity for its own oil industry, bringing combat helicopters to South Sudan to help provide the fledgling country with security. Others aiding South Sudan include Christian Kenya, through which most of its arms arrive, Christian Ethiopia, and Israel, which has played an outsized role in establishing South Sudan.

Read more:

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/12/29/lawrence-solomon-to-islams-dismay-a-new-oil-nation-is-born/#ixzz1A1IYYkw5

Read more: http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/12/29/lawrence-solomon-to-islams-dismay-a-new-oil-nation-is-born/#ixzz1A1I3UiOb

Question - where was all your outrage when genocide was being carried out in Darfur?

[Guest TrueMetis]

No, it's idiots like you that wind up surrendering the benefits of civilization to destruction by barbarians. I'm sure many Romans like you found it better to debate the niceties of distinctions among Barbarians rather than facing the threat.

The "barbarians" that the Romans where facing had plenty of civilized practices. The view of the Europeans that the Romans had was a caricature much like you view of Muslim = Arab when it doesn't and you misunderstanding of what constitutes the Islamic world.

[nicky10013]

The "barbarians" that the Romans where facing had plenty of civilized practices. The view of the Europeans that the Romans had was a caricature much like you view of Muslim = Arab when it doesn't and you misunderstanding of what constitutes the Islamic world.

Bingo. I find it hilarious that ignorant idiots spout shit like that without realizing that the country with the largest Islamic population is actually a democracy.

Whoops.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Bingo. I find it hilarious that ignorant idiots spout shit like that without realizing that the country with the largest Islamic population is actually a democracy.

Whoops.

Or the Islamic countries that have elected female heads of state.

ETA Some of you need to read this.

Edited January 5, 2011 by TrueMetis