Harper's KGB

[takeanumber]

Wow checkmate, takeanumber!!

Once again you just take over debates with the facts, logic and reason, amazing, just amazing!!

You got all us cons running for the hills!!!

THANKS!!!!

I'd like to thank the following people:

BigGunner: "We made it!!!"

Argus: "Where would I be without you, man!"

Sully: "Keep on trucking!"

Alliance Fanatic: "Thanks for excerise man!"

MapleSyrup: "If it wasn't for your poll numbers, I'd be lost. "

Cons: "Keep running!"

Don't cut me off yet! Don't start the MUSIC I'm NOT DONE

Wooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

[Sully]

Not bad you got some wit !!!!

But only if you had some...........!!!!

[takeanumber]

Not bad you got some wit !!!!

But only if you had some...........!!!!

Mojo?

Oh behaaaaaaaaaave.

[Goldie]

I work with senoirs and I had the occasion twice to meet men that were with the German Army 60 odd years ago.

One would only eat corn flakes cause when the Americans captured him he thought this was great food and loved the Americans for how he was treated. Even 60 years hadn't jaded him to his captors.

I won't write about how the Germans treated their prisoners because there is enough history written about it. (DO SOME RESEARCH)

The other would talk about the British as if they were a chosen people. He hated to fight them, "But I had to follow orders". This he confided when he thought I was of German decent.

Reading this anti-American, anti-Harper crap is beyond politics. You paint fellow Canadians with Christian or other religious beliefs as the "Devil we don't know". This is the scariest scenario i can imagine but sounds all too familiar. These people have more in common with Osama than Harper has with Hiltler.

[maplesyrup]

Most Americans now realize that Bush erred in invading Iraq.

[takeanumber]

These people have more in common with Osama than Harper has with Hiltler.

Some Christian Fundamentalists have a lot in common with Islamic Fundamentalists, mainly, their desire to impose strict rules on society based on their respective words of God.

You ask either group for their justification for a given policy that they support, and they'll reply, "because it's the word of God."

And both factions have a few radical, violent people in them. Only the word 'terrorist' is reserved for Muslims. Christians who commit acts of terror (the killing of abortion doctors, the bashing of gays), are called something else. (Or never linked.)

As for Harper being linked with Nazi'sm, I think that his stance has an uncanny resemblance to the Anti-Gay laws in 1932-1933. (Do some research.).

I call it like I see it.

[Slavik44]

These people have more in common with Osama than Harper has with Hiltler.

Some Christian Fundamentalists have a lot in common with Islamic Fundamentalists, mainly, their desire to impose strict rules on society based on their respective words of God.

You ask either group for their justification for a given policy that they support, and they'll reply, "because it's the word of God."

And both factions have a few radical, violent people in them. Only the word 'terrorist' is reserved for Muslims. Christians who commit acts of terror (the killing of abortion doctors, the bashing of gays), are called something else. (Or never linked.)

As for Harper being linked with Nazi'sm, I think that his stance has an uncanny resemblance to the Anti-Gay laws in 1932-1933. (Do some research.).

I call it like I see it.

unfortunanatley the laser eye surgey has yet to kick in eh?

[Argus]

If Canadian foreign policy is a whore the US, why then did Canada stay out of Iraq? And based on that point, why then did Harper want to go into Iraq? What does that make Stephen Harper?

I did not say our policy was a whore to the US. We whore for money, thank you. And there was no money to be made in Iraq. As for why Harper wanted to go in, he wanted to go in to support our friends and allies.

[takeanumber]

As for why Harper wanted to go in, he wanted to go in to support our friends and allies.

Exactly.

So, with Harper, we could expect the same kind of toady-ing that we see from the likes of Blair?

I'm proud of Canada's decision not to go to Iraq and chuck feeces on prisoners, thank you.

Harper, and the Cons support for the War during the buidup illustrate their flawed judgement with respect to foreign policy.

[Goldie]

And both factions have a few radical, violent people in them. Only the word 'terrorist' is reserved for Muslims. Christians who commit acts of terror (the killing of abortion doctors, the bashing of gays), are called something else. (Or never linked.)

Your confusing Free Votes with fascism and social conservatives with fundamentalists. Having religious views is not an ...ism.

Some people would like to make it an extreme, but legislators in a free vote environment are hardly scary. The Liberals whipped to vote the party line at the whim of a PM is scary.

[Sully]

Christians who commit acts of terror (the killing of abortion doctors, the bashing of gays), are called something else. (Or never linked.)

Actually look to Ireland if you want to see Christians being labelled as terrorists!!! They performed acts of terror and were thus labelled terrorists.

Isolated incidents cannot be labelled as terrorists, but in some cases they can be. But if thats the case many more people could be classified as terrorists too, muggers, rapists, etc.

[BigGunner]

I work with senoirs and I had the occasion twice to meet men that were with the German Army 60 odd years ago.

One would only eat corn flakes cause when the Americans captured him he thought this was great food and loved the Americans for how he was treated. Even 60 years hadn't jaded him to his captors.

I won't write about how the Germans treated their prisoners because there is enough history written about it. (DO SOME RESEARCH)

The other would talk about the British as if they were a chosen people. He hated to fight them, "But I had to follow orders". This he confided when he thought I was of German decent.

Reading this anti-American, anti-Harper crap is beyond politics. You paint fellow Canadians with Christian or other religious beliefs as the "Devil we don't know". This is the scariest scenario i can imagine but sounds all too familiar. These people have more in common with Osama than Harper has with Hiltler.

Once again, you spin the idea that challenging American foreign policy is equal to anti-Americanism. Wrong on all counts.

Not all that America does is bad or wrong. Going into Iraq the first time was legitimate, and right. Going to Korea to fight, and WW2 were all justified in their day.

But the current American administration is on the wrong path, and Harper would be wise to condemn the policy too.

To this day, the only country that thinks the Iraq war was justified is America....and polling is showing that more and more Americans are getting second thoughts on that. But then, some Americans think that Iraq bombed the WTC on 9/11.

I'll write anti-Harper stuff all I want. I'll also write anti-Bush stuff too. I do not write anti-American stuff, but I am certainly allowed to disagree with their foreign policy.

But the more you defend Bush, and his foreign policy, and promote the idea that it should become our policy, the more I think that you are loyal to the wrong country.

[takeanumber]

Isolated incidents cannot be labelled as terrorists, but in some cases they can be. But if thats the case many more people could be classified as terrorists too, muggers, rapists, etc

Frequenting an ally behind a gay bar night after night waiting for homosexuals to bash is in a different league than a mugger.

The intent is to terrorize a community. (Impart a feeling of terror.)

Therefore, it's a terrorist act.

Don't try to make the act of gay bashing any less than what it really is, although that is the good Christian thing to do.

I'll write anti-Harper stuff all I want. I'll also write anti-Bush stuff too. I do not write anti-American stuff, but I am certainly allowed to disagree with their foreign policy.

But the more you defend Bush, and his foreign policy, and promote the idea that it should become our policy, the more I think that you are loyal to the wrong country.

Right on!

[Goldie]

It is absolutely fine to disagree with American foreign policy. It is even better to question an act of war. I don't expect anyone to follow as blind faith any leader.

Reagan was hated in Europe and Canada for his stance on foreign policy towards communism. What with the Evil empire and all. He took a stand and history is looking at him in a pretty fair light. All I'm saying is look at our policy and what do we hope to achieve in the world ? What are the Americans hoping to do?

[Sully]

Frequenting an ally behind a gay bar night after night waiting for homosexuals to bash is in a different league than a mugger.

The intent is to terrorize a community. (Impart a feeling of terror.)

Therefore, it's a terrorist act.

Don't try to make the act of gay bashing any less than what it really is, although that is the good Christian thing to do.

Where is this happening, where can someone like this get away with it night after night. Where have the cops not got involved with this continual beating. Hey you seem to think I promote gay bashing, I am 100% against it, I could care less if people are gay. You love to use isolated examples of where a gay man gets beaten up and then proclaim that there is this wide spread systematic abuse going on. Wow you are creative I ll admit to that.

But one thing I am very curious about is why do you love to bring out your label gun so much against others. I bet a good dream for you is too have double the amount of fingers on each hand, eh!! Just think of all the finger pointing you could do!!!

[BigGunner]

It is absolutely fine to disagree with American foreign policy. It is even better to question an act of war. I don't expect anyone to follow as blind faith any leader.

Reagan was hated in Europe and Canada for his stance on foreign policy towards communism. What with the Evil empire and all. He took a stand and history is looking at him in a pretty fair light. All I'm saying is look at our policy and what do we hope to achieve in the world ? What are the Americans hoping to do?

Reagan was elected twice with some of the most lopsided victories in American elections in recent memory. Unlike Bush, who didn't actually win..

In the cold war, Soviet Communism was indeed the enemy. It was cut and dry. Communist regimes were oppressive and hostile to anything western or democratic.

In this war on terror, one has to ask, how much has American foreign policy had to do with the anti-American wave that is alive and well today and even before 9/11?

Bush is not Reagan. Reagan united a nation that was devided. He was a hard line social conservative, but in that era, many Americans were too.

[BigGunner]

Isolated incidents cannot be labelled as terrorists, but in some cases they can be. But if thats the case many more people could be classified as terrorists too, muggers, rapists, etc

Frequenting an ally behind a gay bar night after night waiting for homosexuals to bash is in a different league than a mugger.

The intent is to terrorize a community. (Impart a feeling of terror.)

Therefore, it's a terrorist act.

Don't try to make the act of gay bashing any less than what it really is, although that is the good Christian thing to do.

I'll write anti-Harper stuff all I want. I'll also write anti-Bush stuff too. I do not write anti-American stuff, but I am certainly allowed to disagree with their foreign policy.

But the more you defend Bush, and his foreign policy, and promote the idea that it should become our policy, the more I think that you are loyal to the wrong country.

Right on!

REAL Christians oppose violence in all forms.

While they oppose gay sex for the acts themselves, real christians do not hate gays and lesbians.

One has to remember that the CCF and NDP came from the evangelical christian movement. It was the reverends JS Woodsworth and Tommy Douglas that used the gospel to preach equality and social justice.

It is not the 'christian thing to do' - gay bash. Acts like that are pure hate, and should feel the full fury of the law as a hate crime.

[August1991]

This thread is absolutely Looney Tunes. It started on a really bad foot, showing an appalling ignorance of federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and then went down hill from there.

The RCMP used to handle all intelligence matters. In the aftermath of the FLQ crisis, CSIS was created. I would be very surprised if anyone suggested CSIS and the RCMP be combined again.

Our strucure is identical to the US structure, on a much smaller scale. The US recently created a Homeland Security cabinet member. Presciently, Kim Campbell created that in 1993 but the Liberals did away with it.

Incidentally, there is a security section within PCO which advises the PM now, much as the NSC (Candoleeza Rice) advises the President. Defence also has an intelligence unit (DIA in the States).

Our present "foreign policy" is that of a whore.

What a whopper that one is. Argus, you are dead, dead wrong. We are not a whore; we are irrelevant.

Canada may be a whore, but the US is a thug. A match made in heaven? 

Bionic, the US a thug? I hope, in God's name Bionic, you never meet a real thug.

Most Americans now realize that Bush erred in invading Iraq.

We'll see about that in November, MS. From what I gather, things are well on track in Iraq. Interim government in place, hand-off on schedule. There's a good thread going on this forum. Check it out.

Some Christian Fundamentalists have a lot in common with Islamic Fundamentalists, mainly, their desire to impose strict rules on society based on their respective words of God.

This is absolute BS, takenumber.

I like neither types of fundamentalists. The Christian sort occasionally knock at my door and I feel vaguely sorry for them. Those that want to do the pentecostal-baptist thing is their right. None of these groups bear any resemblance at all to Islamic Fundamentalists.

Since Boy Scouts and Marines both wear uniforms and sing songs, would you also say they have a lot in common?

As for Harper being linked with Nazi'sm, I think that his stance has an uncanny resemblance to the Anti-Gay laws in 1932-1933. (Do some research.).

WTF? What research is there to do? Learn to read?

Not all that America does is bad or wrong. Going into Iraq the first time was legitimate, and right. Going to Korea to fight, and WW2 were all justified in their day.

But the current American administration is on the wrong path, and Harper would be wise to condemn the policy too.

Some sweet reason from BG. But I disagree.

Reagan was hated in Europe and Canada for his stance on foreign policy towards communism. What with the Evil empire and all. He took a stand and history is looking at him in a pretty fair light.

Goldie, I always thought Reagan was a bromide merchant but he saw communisn thankfully end up on the dust heap of history. Nowadays, the only people defending communism and socialism seem to spend their time posting to Internet forums.

Frequenting an ally behind a gay bar night after night waiting for homosexuals to bash is in a different league than a mugger.

WTF? Any city in Canada

with an identifiable gay bar will not have this problem. Evidence to the contrary, takenumber?

In the cold war, Soviet Communism was indeed the enemy. It was cut and dry. Communist regimes were oppressive and hostile to anything western or democratic.

It was not cut and dry, BG. IMV, the Cold War was much more difficult and dangerous than this current war against these Islamic fanatics. But they are of the same piece.

In this war on terror, one has to ask, how much has American foreign policy had to do with the anti-American wave that is alive and well today and even before 9/11?

The kind of anti-Americanism visible on this forum is a garden variety, the half-baked ideas of immature youth.

The US did not provoke the maniacs who flew those planes into those tall buildings. Was the rape victim guilty of provoking the accused?

[Bionic Antboy]

Canada may be a whore, but the US is a thug. A match made in heaven? 

Bionic, the US a thug? I hope, in God's name Bionic, you never meet a real thug.

Your propensity for quoting a dozen people and replying to single sentence comments strips away contextual understanding of the original comments.

When quoting me, in particular, in the context of the way the US has handled it's foreign policy, it sure is a thug. It's not the only one, but ever since WWII it has sanctioned the assassination of democratically chosen leaders, propped up dictatorships that were friendly to US "interests", though their reigns were brutal and contrary to the will of the people.

There's a long list of friendly dictators, so yes in that light, I think the word "thug" is accurate (okay, maybe I should have said greedy thug).

A foreign policy that includes the belief that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has made made for a world of unnecessary human suffering.

Let's try and keep things in context here.

Labeling people who disagree with US actions as spouting "garden variety anti-Americanism" is a gross oversimplification.

[Argus]

Our present "foreign policy" is that of a whore. Or hadn't you noticed? We'll do anything for anyone and overlook anything if they have money for us.

Any Canadian who has the temerity to criticise American foreign policy obviously has no shame - or else no knowledge.

Is okay to criticise American foreign policy if we also criticise Canadian foreign policy?

Both countries, and every other one, operate on the same principal: what's in it for me? Any national government whose foreign policy is not dedicated to advancing its own interests should be kicked out of office.

Canada may be a whore, but the US is a thug.  A match made in heaven? 

Given the military and economic power the US can bring to bear you should be grateful that's not true. If they were thugs there'd already be no Canada, and the US would already own all the major oil, gold and diamond producing countries.

[Argus]

Are left wingers on this forum getting stupider by the minute. Stop posting a bunch of BS, put up some links to support your claim. If I said

Jack Layton is a nazi, and endorses anti semitic MP's. Than that is making up a bunch of lies, which you left wingers are doing right now.

Did you not follow the link and read the article on how Harper would merge the RCMP and CSIS?

Uh, and so? What is wrong with that? Are you aware that CSIS is a relatively new agency which sprang from --- tada!---- the RCMP? Now that was a few decades back, but my memory says that we were still a free country then.

[Argus]

Jack Layton is a nazi, and endorses anti semitic MP's. Than that is making up a bunch of lies, which you left wingers are doing right now.

So Jack Layton is a Nazi now.

Neat bit of editing there, takeanumber. Dishonest, of course, but that doesn't seem to bother you much.

You know, Harper's position on C-250 is extremely similar to the position taken by the Nazi's in 1932.

You should be mindful of history. 

In point of fact the Nazis loved the anti-hate law once they got in power. They simply put judges in place who changed the interpretation of the law and used it to put anyone who was anti-government, anti-Nazi, or "anti-german" in prison and concentration camps.

I guess those commercials really have a point.

Yeah I think the point was to frighten gullible people who didn't know much about anything. Seems to have worked in some cases.

[Argus]

Actually, one of the Nazi claims while it was burning down homosexual resources centres in 1933 was that they were protecting religious freedom.

(Source:  "The Men with Pink Triangles", 1981.)

Why don't you do some research?

The Nazis - who you seem to have a fetish for - also supressed freedom of speech in many ways, which is something you support, as well. Maybe all this neverending rant of yours about Nazis is just a big coverup, hmm? Maybe you have some sympathies that way?

Now, what's especially funny, is that whenever you talk about the CONS secret agenda, they always have the same response.

The "Cons secret agenda" which YOU know about, of course, even though Conservative supporters don't. Because uhhmm, you're so incredibly wise and all-knowing and sophisticated. Uh huhhhhhhhhhh.

Whenever anyone talks about "secret agendas" the question arises; uh, how do you know if it's a secret? Ah, because you can "read between the lines". Well you know what I see when I try to read between lines? Nothing.

A homosexual shows up to a rally?  Beat him

Hecklers show up at a rally, shouting and trying to drown out the speaker and refusing to leave and shoving and pushing at those who are trying to get them to leave (and you're an 83 year old half deaf man who doesn't even know what the shouting is about but gets scared) punch the stupid bugger in the nose like he deserves.

A reporter asks a question about C-250?  Boo them.

You're an innocent citizen who thought the media had a bit of neutrality to them but get exposed to pack tactics where they ask the same question over and over and over and over and over again, slightly altering the phrasing, you get impatient, then indignant, and want them to move on at last or get out. Funny how human beings are, eh?

[August1991]

Your propensity for quoting a dozen people and replying to single sentence comments strips away contextual understanding of the original comments.

It is my way of responding to nonsense. Argus prefers separate posts. I find that takes up too much space. The thread provides the context.

When quoting me, in particular, in the context of the way the US has handled it's foreign policy, it sure is a thug. It's not the only one, but ever since WWII it has sanctioned the assassination of democratically chosen leaders, propped up dictatorships that were friendly to US "interests", though their reigns were brutal and contrary to the will of the people.

Between WWII and 1991, the US was involved in an extremely serious Cold War against Communism. This war was a major preoccupation of every Administration. There is no doubt in my mind who the real thugs were in that war. Americans acted in general like a firm policeman.

Labeling people who disagree with US actions as spouting "garden variety anti-Americanism" is a gross oversimplification.

My reference was to the "real anti-Americans" who want to eliminate people like you and me because, among other things, we freely discuss topics on the Internet.

[Argus]

As for Harper being linked with Nazi'sm, I think that his stance has an uncanny resemblance to the Anti-Gay laws in 1932-1933.  (Do some research.).

Why do you keep saying things like this? It only makes clear to anyone with even a little knowledge that your own "research" consisted of comic books and old movies.

The Nazis believed in racial purity. It was the essence of their ideology at that time. Anyone who was inferior, be it due to race, disability, religion, or "perversion" was to be excised from the Aryan people. So such people were arrested and put in concentration camps.

Now are you actually trying to suggest that Stephen Harper and the Conservative party have any kind of beliefs or policies in any way similar to this?

I know you're not terribly sophisticated or well-read but surely even you can see how lunatic such a suggestion is.