I just donated money to the Liberal Party of Canada

[Argus]

Tony Greco is his name, the Liberal Party candidate in the Vaughn by-Election. I honestly don't know a lot about him. I suppose he's a typical Liberal. I'm not exactly an enthusiastic supporter, and I've never donated money to a political party before in my life. But I went to his web site and donated $50 because he's running neck and neck with the Conservative candidate hand-picked by Stephen Harper - Julian Fantino.

Picking Fantino is probably the most disturbing thing I've ever seen Harper do. It shows either a lack of morality and ethical judgment (given Fantino has neither ethics nor morals) or a man willing to do what some adviser tells him to do without bothering to check it out.

For those who don't know, Fantino was the OPP commissioner responsible for that mess in Caledonia. Oh sure, I know that Dalton McGuinty's spinelessness is primarily to blame, but Fantino showed, shall we say, a degree of flexibility in interpreting the law while obeying McGuinty's wishes which no police officer, let alone a police commissioner should demonstrate. He has also often been described as petty, vindictive and bullying towards police officers under his command and anyone else who got in his way. Witness his long and determined efforts at jailing critic Gary McHale, which backfired and got Fantino charged with a criminal offense, notably, threatening public officials.

Canadian Taxpayers Federation issued a press release stating, "On April 7th Commissioner Fantino sent an email to Caledonia's mayor and council. In it he threatens to hold councilors accountable, to send them the bill for policing, to support law suits and to end policing of the area. Mr. Fantino blames what he considers as support for Gary McHale by Councilor Grice as his reason for the threats."

National Post

Although the Crown refused to proceed with the charges (not a big surprise given McGuinty's degree of control over the process, it's indicative of what a bullying blowhard Fantino is. More evidence can be found while delving through the numerous court cases and access to information requests which have been posted here

I have to wonder if the Liberals are trying very hard in this one. The thought occurs to me that they might like the idea of Fantino as a tory MP, perhaps even a cabinet minister. I'm betting the Ontario Liberals have a lot of embarrassing dirt they can feed their federal cousins which they can spring on the Conservatives in the eventuality Fantino is elected.

[Shady]

What's Tony Greco's view of the Caledonia situation?

[kimmy]

What's Tony Greco's view of the Caledonia situation?

If he's a politician, I'm guessing his view is "We need to work together to find a solution that works for everybody!"

-k

[KeyStone]

"The Ontario Provincial Police Association and former OPP commissioner Julian Fantino are seeking $92,000 in court costs from the families of two men police shot and killed.

Levi Schaeffer and Douglas Minty, one with psychiatric issues the other with intellectual challenges, were shot dead in 2009. In both cases police say the men came at them with a knife."

Fantino is a real piece of work who goes after anyone with the audacity to question him.

He is currently suing the family of a man with mental health issues that the OPP shot and killed.

Apparently, he can't relate to a family wanting answers when their son was killed by police, and there were several irregularities. NO ONE DARES TO QUESTION THE GREAT FANTINO

[Shady]

"The Ontario Provincial Police Association and former OPP commissioner Julian Fantino are seeking $92,000 in court costs from the families of two men police shot and killed.

Levi Schaeffer and Douglas Minty, one with psychiatric issues the other with intellectual challenges, were shot dead in 2009. In both cases police say the men came at them with a knife."

Is this suppose to be from a link?

[Smallc]

Sorry, but I wouldn't be voting or donating Liberal (and I have a membership card0.

[Shwa]

Is this suppose to be from a link?

Yep, here is the story from Tuesday's Toronto Star:

Police seek cash from shooting victim’s families

[Evening Star]

Sorry, but I wouldn't be voting or donating Liberal (and I have a membership card0.

Not because you'd vote for Fantino though, right?

[fellowtraveller]

The Liberals need money?

What happened to the $200 million gift they got from Chretien?

[Pliny]

A policeman as a politician is not a good mix. They have a tendency to support very draconian, oppressive laws.

However, I couldn't bring myself to vote liberal. I probably wouldn't vote. If there were a Libertarian candidate I would vote for him/her - same as not voting I guess.

[dre]

A policeman as a politician is not a good mix. They have a tendency to support very draconian, oppressive laws.

However, I couldn't bring myself to vote liberal. I probably wouldn't vote. If there were a Libertarian candidate I would vote for him/her - same as not voting I guess.

If there were a Libertarian candidate I would vote for him/her

Yeah, that would at least be good enough for a laugh

[Smallc]

Not because you'd vote for Fantino though, right?

No, because I don't think the Liberals deserve my vote right now.

[YEGmann]

Fantino is a real piece of work who goes after anyone with the audacity to question him.

He is currently suing the family of a man with mental health issues that the OPP shot and killed.

Apparently, he can't relate to a family wanting answers when their son was killed by police, and there were several irregularities. NO ONE DARES TO QUESTION THE GREAT FANTINO

The families initiated the lawsuit. They lost in court. A looser must pay the bill. Don't you agree with this basic principle?

[Who's Doing What?]

Tony Greco is his name, the Liberal Party candidate in the Vaughn by-Election. I honestly don't know a lot about him. I suppose he's a typical Liberal. I'm not exactly an enthusiastic supporter, and I've never donated money to a political party before in my life. But I went to his web site and donated $50 because he's running neck and neck with the Conservative candidate hand-picked by Stephen Harper - Julian Fantino.

That must have hurt.

Sorry for laughing but after seeing this I had to check the weather in Hell. Just to see if anything was frozen.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Who's Doing What?

[Guest TrueMetis]

No, because I don't think the Liberals deserve my vote right now.

None of the parties deserve anyone's vote. Maybe all parties should be dissolved, they would all probably be reformed under new names but it's just possible that something good would come out of it.

[Wild Bill]

The families initiated the lawsuit. They lost in court. A looser must pay the bill. Don't you agree with this basic principle?

Your statement presupposes that courts are perfect and always do their jobs. Families and society at large have a right to ask questions and get answers as to the cops doing their job properly. This is also a basic principle. One could ask if you agree that they had the right to answers, or if the court actually properly did its job in serving justice.

A high profile police chief often tends to get more than the benefit of the doubt in such cases. Also, it's common knowledge that the "system" has a tendency to protect its own.

Perhaps those are the principles with which YOU agree!

[Smallc]

None of the parties deserve anyone's vote.

Right now, you're probably right. Perhaps I should rephrase. The Liberals (other than the Green Party under Elizabeth May) deserve my vote less than any other party.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Right now, you're probably right. Perhaps I should rephrase. The Liberals (other than the Green Party under Elizabeth May) deserve my vote less than any other party.

True enough.

[Argus]

The families initiated the lawsuit. They lost in court. A looser must pay the bill. Don't you agree with this basic principle?

Fantino is well-known, even infamous for being a petty, vindictive man. Have a look at the years long effort he made to put Gary McHale in jail. He browbeat his senior officers to find something - anything - to charge Mchale with. They finally came up with some charge almost no one had ever even heard of, and it got tossed by the courts.

Then Fantino threatens the local town council because one of the councilors made a statement he didn't like. That is against the law, but Fantino never minded abusing his power. Were it not for a cooperative Crown - and protection from the Liberals - the charge would have gone ahead and he would have been convicted.

He also wasted half a million dollars on his efforts at disciplining a pair of officers who had irritated him, and it all came to nothing because once again the courts tossed his complaints.

[YEGmann]

Families and society at large have a right to ask questions and get answers as to the cops doing their job properly. This is also a basic principle.

Yes, they surely do.

But these particular families chose a wrong avenue. I feel really sorry for them and partially understand them. Losing relatives is a tragedy. However they definitely made a poor choice. I think, it's emotions and probably greedy lawyers to blame. But still why somebody must pay for your mistake? They had known the rules before they started the lawsuit. They should have had plan B. Fantino here is just doing his job. His department forcefully spent money that could have been spend on law enforcement job. Now he is recuperating these money. I think you would do the same.

Regarding the other avenues, I think, it can be their MP. Dziekansky's (I can misspell) case shows it can be done without going to court.

Edited November 13, 2010 by YEGmann

[Argus]

Yes, they surely do.

But these particular families chose a wrong avenue.

As I understand it police are required to write up such incidents immediately. However, in this case, as in others, the police refused, and took a day or two to decide what they would say and how they would say it, perhaps consulting one another, before submitting their report. The civilian SIU remarked upon that, and thus the families attempted to obtain some sort of finding from the judge that the police must compel officers to write up their reports immediately or be punished.

It would be nice if senior police simply did their jobs, or if one could complain to ones mayor, say, and have him compel the police to do their jobs, but that doesn't seem to be the way things work in our society any more. Senior police, like other bureaucrats, are more likely to try and cover up malfeasance by their officers. In fact, Fantino has previously been accused of trying to cover up corruption charges against police officers under his command.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Argus

[bbice]

Hello, first post on the forum, figured might as well get my start on this topic.

I am wondering, why would you give money to a representative of a political party, in this case the Liberals, when at the moment (as they have for a while now), they are scattered all over the place. They really do have no real strong leader figure, or atleast, not one that can bring the party itself together. The thing I have noticed with the Liberals is that there are many schisms within the party itself, mostly due to the fact that if you are more right-wing inclined, you vote for Conservative, and if you are a unionist/more socialist, you vote for NDP. This has led to the Liberal Party becoming more or less a dumping ground for those who do not fit those aforementioned groups. I personally wouldnt give money to a party that was as broken up, especially with no real sign of someone who is able to bring the party together on the horizon. Just my personal opinion, but in the end, it's your money.

On the other hand, I guess that from a realistic standpoint, if a candidate is running against a member of the opposite party that you do not really agree with, power to you in terms of giving your candidate the most amount of support possible. I was more looking at the bigger picture, not necessarily the candidate himself. Also, I apologize for derailing the current part of the topic pertaining to Fantino, figured I should just start from the top, especially since I dont really have an opinion on Fantino himself.

Cheers,

bbice

[Saipan]

A policeman as a politician is not a good mix. They have a tendency to support very draconian, oppressive laws.

In case of Fantino just the opposite. He called the long gun registration what it really is - a piece of very wasteful crap.

Nazis and Communists loved that.

And of course Liberals.

[Jack Weber]

In case of Fantino just the opposite. He called the long gun registration what it really is - a piece of very wasteful crap.

Nazis and Communists loved that.

And of course Liberals.

Equating the Liberal Party of Canada with extreme Fascists and Marxists...

Good to see you've regained some semblence of lucidity....

[August1991]

Picking Fantino is probably the most disturbing thing I've ever seen Harper do.

Argus, I too was intrigued by this choice of candidate.

To be frank, I don't really know much about Fantino. He was police chief in Toronto and Ontario. He's running in a suburb of Toronto (Woodbridge?) with many voters of Italian origin.

I have no problem with Harper playing politics the way the federal Liberals typically do. Harper needs a majority.

But here's the fundamental question, as your donation shows.

----

I think that this theory of incremental conservatism is a fraud. It's an excuse for politicians (such as Harper) who fear their communication skills.

Politicians such as Thatcher, Reagan made their point forcefully, and clearly. Churchill and Trudeau were not "incremental" in defending their beliefs. People voted for such leaders.

If Stephen Harper is a Conservative, he should say so. Clearly.

Edited November 14, 2010 by August1991