What can you do to stop racism?

[charter.rights]

Edmonton campaign to eliminate racism.....

Anti-racism campaign fights 'white privilege'

Let’s Eliminate Racism in Edmonton

Did you know (From Racism Free Edmonton):

Child poverty for children belonging to racialized groups is 45% while the rate for all children in Canada is 26%

In Canada, members of racialized groups earn 28% less than whites.

23% of those living in Canada incorrectly believe that some races are genetically smarter than others

Racism divides communities, threatens peaceful co-existence within communities and entrenches inequalities within society

Asking a person where they're really from is racist. They may be fifth generation Canadian.

[charter.rights]

White privilege refers to all the benefits we get just for being white. Most of us are aware of how racism hurts others, but we're not aware of how it benefits us.

[KeyStone]

Asking a person where they are originally from, particularly if they have an accent, is not racist.

It is an attempt to show interest in their culture and history.

If you wish to water down the term racist, to include remarks that may offend overly sensitive people, who jump at any recognition of difference, then the term racism will lose all its meaning, and we will all be racists in one form or another.

I suppose those that are politically correct don't bother to talk to newcomers at all.

[Shwa]

I suppose those that are politically correct don't bother to talk to newcomers at all.

Quite the opposite. Who do you think the newcomers learn the language from? The Fraser Institute?

[charter.rights]

Asking a person where they are originally from, particularly if they have an accent, is not racist.

You don't even know it is wrong.....hence the need for more sensitivity training.

[KeyStone]

Why don't you explain to me why it is wrong to initiate a conversation about someone's homeland and culture?

[Argus]

White privilege refers to all the benefits we get just for being white.

You mean like having two parents and a more than passing acquaintance with shavers and soap?

[AngusThermopyle]

Asking a person where they are originally from, particularly if they have an accent, is not racist.

Actually I get this question a lot as I'm an immigrant. Never once did it occur to me that it was a racist question, nor do I think it is. It's simply the result of normal curiosity, no more. The twit who claims it as a form of racism is just exactly that, a twit, as are any who believe likewise.

[charter.rights]

Why don't you explain to me why it is wrong to initiate a conversation about someone's homeland and culture?

Individual racism that is subtle and harder to identify includes: Assuming that a person who is not white was not born in Canada and does not belong here e.g. “So where are you from?”

[charter.rights]

Actually I get this question a lot as I'm an immigrant. Never once did it occur to me that it was a racist question, nor do I think it is. It's simply the result of normal curiosity, no more. The twit who claims it as a form of racism is just exactly that, a twit, as are any who believe likewise.

Do you think that just because someone has good intentions that it still isn't racism? Of course as an Anglo-European male you probably don't see anything wrong with it, right?

Edited November 8, 2010 by charter.rights

[KeyStone]

Individual racism that is subtle and harder to identify includes: Assuming that a person who is not white was not born in Canada and does not belong here e.g. “So where are you from?”

First of all, I asked you to explain it to me.

I didn't say please find me a quote on the internet that says it is racism.

Firstly, it is presumptuous and erroneous to assume someone was not born in Canada simply because their skin is not white.

I don't know if I would throw out the term racist, as I prefer to reserve that for the really bad people.

However, if a person has an accent (regardless of skin colour), it isn't absurd to expect that they are from somewhere else originally. Furthermore, the implication that asking someone where they are from implies that they don't belong here is absurd. That certainly isn't the subtext.

Let me tell you about racists.

They don't talk to new Canadians unless they are forced to, and they certainly don't ask where they are from and make an attempt to show that their culture is welcome here.

We live in Canada, not the US. Therefore, it is alright to recognize and appreciate the differences in people, instead of trying to pretend that they don't exist, to expedite the assimilation process. You need to stop and think for yourself Charter, instead of just reading websites and accepting it as fact.

[charter.rights]

First of all, I asked you to explain it to me.

I didn't say please find me a quote on the internet that says it is racism.

Firstly, it is presumptuous and erroneous to assume someone was not born in Canada simply because their skin is not white.

I don't know if I would throw out the term racist, as I prefer to reserve that for the really bad people.

However, if a person has an accent (regardless of skin colour), it isn't absurd to expect that they are from somewhere else originally. Furthermore, the implication that asking someone where they are from implies that they don't belong here is absurd. That certainly isn't the subtext.

Let me tell you about racists.

They don't talk to new Canadians unless they are forced to, and they certainly don't ask where they are from and make an attempt to show that their culture is welcome here.

We live in Canada, not the US. Therefore, it is alright to recognize and appreciate the differences in people, instead of trying to pretend that they don't exist, to expedite the assimilation process. You need to stop and think for yourself Charter, instead of just reading websites and accepting it as fact.

First of all I am providing what Edmonton is saying / doing. The website that I quoted is the one with the campaign and it answered your question properly.

"Individual racism that is subtle and harder to identify includes:..."

Just because someone has an accent doesn't mean they weren't born here also. And just because you don't ~think~ it is racism, doesn't mean it isn't. That is half of the problem with racism in that most racist don't believe they are doing any harm...like these yahoos and those that defend them....

"Racist" costume disgusts Campbellford businessman

Residents defend Campbellford in wake of KKK incident

Indifference and racism go hand in hand.

[KeyStone]

First of all I am providing what Edmonton is saying / doing. The website that I quoted is the one with the campaign and it answered your question properly.

"Individual racism that is subtle and harder to identify includes:..."

Just because someone has an accent doesn't mean they weren't born here also. And just because you don't ~think~ it is racism, doesn't mean it isn't. That is half of the problem with racism in that most racist don't believe they are doing any harm...like these yahoos and those that defend them....

"Racist" costume disgusts Campbellford businessman

Residents defend Campbellford in wake of KKK incident

Indifference and racism go hand in hand.

No, having an accent doesn't mean that the people weren't born here.

But with the exception of a few accents (First Nation, French), it is a reasonable assumption that if they have an accent, they have spent a great deal of time in another country.

No, just because I say it isn't racism (or your little website), does not mean that it isn't racism.

However, just because you say that it is racism, doesn't mean that it is racism.

There is no Pope of racism, which means there is no overall authority to define what is and isn't racism.

On that basis, I don't believe that it is racism.

Regardless of the label, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it, and will continue to do so.

So, regardless of your 'racist' label which you hand out like flyers at a rave, the action of engaging probable new Canadians about their culture, is wrong, if it makes new Canadians feel more excluded than included. If I see a poll of new Canadians that shows that an attempt to engage in conversation and learn about their culture offends, hurts them and makes them feel excluded, I may change my views.

If however, it's simply a lot of busybody ivory tower folks, who are looking for excuses to write academic papers and get contracts in sensitivity training, then I'm unlikely to change. Have any of these superbrains actually talked to new Canadians or do they just decide what new Canadians like and dislike based on a priori deduction?

[eyeball]

Asking a person where they're really from is racist. They may be fifth generation Canadian.

Answering that you're an (approx) 5300th generation Earthling seems to get up some people's noses even worse.

[guyser]

..., it is a reasonable assumption that if they have an accent, they have spent a great deal of time in another country.

I know eh!

These 'Newfies'(thats what they called themselves) I met down on some rock east of me...wtf was their problem? All I asked was what country they're from.

[AngusThermopyle]

Of course as an Anglo-European male you probably don't see anything wrong with it, right?

Nope, nothing at all. Since I do speak with an accent, and having grown up in South Africa, Australia and England I actually expect people to ask about my accent as it is a rather unusual one. If that makes them racist in your view then so be it. However it does not offend me in the least and I have never noticed any hints of racism in the manner in which the question was asked.

As mentioned earlier, just because some twit in an Ivory tower posits some concept it does not automatically make it correct. This has to be one of the more absurd assumptions I've heard in quite some time actually. The fact that you appear to buy into it hook line and sinker actually does not say much for your critical or cognitive abilities.

As an immigrant I can answer resoundingly that this question does not offend me in any form or manner at all. Perhaps I'm just not sensitive enough.

[charter.rights]

Nope, nothing at all. Since I do speak with an accent, and having grown up in South Africa, Australia and England I actually expect people to ask about my accent as it is a rather unusual one. If that makes them racist in your view then so be it. However it does not offend me in the least and I have never noticed any hints of racism in the manner in which the question was asked.

As mentioned earlier, just because some twit in an Ivory tower posits some concept it does not automatically make it correct. This has to be one of the more absurd assumptions I've heard in quite some time actually. The fact that you appear to buy into it hook line and sinker actually does not say much for your critical or cognitive abilities.

As an immigrant I can answer resoundingly that this question does not offend me in any form or manner at all. Perhaps I'm just not sensitive enough.

As an Anglo-European, you are not a target of racism but a proponent with the "white privilege" that they talk about on the website. So no you wouldn't be offended, nor would you see it as racism because it isn't. Wink Wink.

[Sir Bandelot]

Let's say for the moment that it is racist to ask someone where they are from. But now let's ask, why is that a wrong thing. Why should "racism" be wrong at all, if the knowledge or interest in another persons race is not used to disadvantage them in any way. What's wrong with talking about race? Here in Canada, we believe that people of different races can all live together and learn to be tolerant, even learn about each others races, or more specifically, about their cultures. We need to put away this sense that talking about race is something repugnant. Keeping something hidden, or forbidding certain conversations doesn't solve anything, it only makes it worse. So I say, away with these wimpish neo-liberals and their fear of words, or any idea that implies there's a substantial difference between you and me. Away with these mind numbing forced equalization programs. This de-humanizing political correctness. What's wrong with knowing that someone is from another country like Ghana, or anywhere else, so that we might understand better what people are like. That's just natural human curiosity. Otherwise why don't we all just walk around with paper bags over our heads, and change our names into numbers. Then we're all equal, obedient uncurious faceless slave drones, working for the bylaws of multinational corporations.

[charter.rights]

Let's say for the moment that it is racist to ask someone where they are from. But now let's ask, why is that a wrong thing. Why should "racism" be wrong at all, if the knowledge or interest in another persons race is not used to disadvantage them in any way. What's wrong with talking about race? Here in Canada, we believe that people of different races can all live together and learn to be tolerant, even learn about each others races, or more specifically, about their cultures. We need to put away this sense that talking about race is something repugnant. Keeping something hidden, or forbidding certain conversations doesn't solve anything, it only makes it worse. So I say, away with these wimpish neo-liberals and their fear of words, or any idea that implies there's a substantial difference between you and me. Away with these mind numbing forced equalization programs. This de-humanizing political correctness. What's wrong with knowing that someone is from another country like Ghana, or anywhere else, so that we might understand better what people are like. That's just natural human curiosity. Otherwise why don't we all just walk around with paper bags over our heads, and change our names into numbers. Then we're all equal, obedient uncurious faceless slave drones, working for the bylaws of multinational corporations.

Because when these types of questions are asked the intent is to identify a difference. Once there is a difference their are all kinds of 'white privilege' that can be exercised over the minority...refusing to rent, poor service, employment inequity etc.

The problem is that in the 'white' dominant society we don't recognize that we are often using our advantages over minorities. Take the "white" invented multicultural society concept as an example While it might have had good intentions the net result is that government and business panders to one segment of one identifiable minority and then boasts that it has dealt with all the issues of the entire minorities.

We needn't ask where someone is from. It is none of our business. We should be looking past colour and accents to see Canadians...of all kinds, shapes and hues without distinction UNLESS someone self-identifies to open the conversation.

[kimmy]

Several years ago I had a conversation with two non-white friends, both 2nd generation Canadians, who both agreed that "so where are you from?" was annoying, particularly from somebody who won't accept "Trail, BC" as an answer.

So I no longer ask that question.

Not exactly sure about "all the benefits I get just from being white," though.

-k

[Guest TrueMetis]

Several years ago I had a conversation with two non-white friends, both 2nd generation Canadians, who both agreed that "so where are you from?" was annoying, particularly from somebody who won't accept "Trail, BC" as an answer.

So I no longer ask that question.

Not exactly sure about "all the benefits I get just from being white," though.

-k

I prefer to ask where their family is from. Would that still count as racist?

[charter.rights]

I prefer to ask where their family is from. Would that still count as racist?

Its the same question no matter how you disguise it.

[AngusThermopyle]

As an Anglo-European, you are not a target of racism

This is a rather large assumption to make. As a matter of fact I can assure that since comming to NA I have experienced racism at various times. Many times I've heard the "Limey" slur used in relation to myself, or the ever popular "why don't you go back to where you belong". To say that being white excludes one from racism is incorrect. Or is it because I'm the wrong color immigrant so racism doesn't count in my case? In effect is racism itself racist on an entirely different internal level?

[charter.rights]

This is a rather large assumption to make. As a matter of fact I can assure that since comming to NA I have experienced racism at various times. Many times I've heard the "Limey" slur used in relation to myself, or the ever popular "why don't you go back to where you belong". To say that being white excludes one from racism is incorrect. Or is it because I'm the wrong color immigrant so racism doesn't count in my case? In effect is racism itself racist on an entirely different internal level?

It is not the same thing. If you didn't open your mouth it is likely you would fit in with the rest of the privileged lot.

"Limey" is not a racist term. It might be a pejorative but it does not separate you based on your race. That you don't know the difference speaks volumes about the need for general public education.

Edited November 9, 2010 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

"Limey" is not a racist term.

Since the word refers specifically to English people and no others I would tend to disagree. To state it is not racist would be akin to saying that calling a Jewish person a "Kike or Hebe" is not racist. Or how about the ever popular "go back to where you belong" is this also not racist?

It is becoming clear to me that in your limited world view one must be of a certain shade to be subject to racism, how sad that you limit your understanding on purpose in such a way. How racist to make such distinctions. Of course in your view I could just exist in silence and all would be good, correct.