Israel clears... Israel

[naomiglover]

Israel's military hierarchy has been cleared of significant wrongdoing after an inquiry concluded that the deadly naval raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla six weeks ago was error-free.

The probe, conducted by the Israeli armed forces and led by a retired general, found that there was more to praise than to condemn in the naval operation that claimed the lives of nine Turkish activists on board the flotilla's lead ship, the Mavi Marmara.

In his report, General Giora Eiland lauded the "professionalism, bravery and resourcefulness" of the commandos involved in the raid and ruled that the use of live fire was "justified".

"To my relief, the investigation found no negligence of failures on any significant matters," Gen Eiland told reporters after submitting his report.

Link

This is from a couple of months ago but it's still funny.

[jbg]

Israel is an independent country with a functioning judiciary. It can and should investigate its own actions.

[bud]

Israel is an independent country with a functioning judiciary. It can and should investigate its own actions.

the military general cleared his own military from any wrong doing. if you don't think that's totally hilarious...

"To my relief, the investigation found no negligence of failures on any significant matters," Gen Eiland told reporters after submitting his report.

LOL

[jbg]

the military general cleared his own military from any wrong doing. if you don't think that's totally hilarious...

"To my relief, the investigation found no negligence of failures on any significant matters," Gen Eiland told reporters after submitting his report.

LOL

The so-called "Jenin massacre" was found, after an outside probe, to not be a massacre. I think Israel can conduct unbiased, quality investigations.

[bud]

The so-called "Jenin massacre" was found, after an outside probe, to not be a massacre. I think Israel can conduct unbiased, quality investigations.

what does jenin have anything to do with israel's shoddy record of investigating itself with its kangaroo military courts and kangaroo investigations done by military generals?

by the way, the reason the number of dead fluctuated was because reporting on the attack was almost impossible. israel blocked access to reporters from going into jenin. much like what they did into gaza. an attempt by israel to control what goes in and out of the battle zone. a favourite propaganda tactic used by the nazis.

but of course, sometimes it's impossible to stop all news from getting out. no matter how much israel tries, reports and investigations by human rights organizations continue to show israel's violations of international law and the joke that israel's courts and the inability in keeping itself accountable.

[bush_cheney2004]

...but of course, sometimes it's impossible to stop all news from getting out. no matter how much israel tries, reports and investigations by human rights organizations continue to show israel's violations of international law and the joke that israel's courts and the inability in keeping itself accountable.

You mean like Canada (Somalia) and the USA (My Lai)?

[bud]

You mean like Canada (Somalia) and the USA (My Lai)?

there is no "like". your comparisons are brutal and serve no purpose.

you're like a child who tries to excuse bad actions by saying: "but he was doing something 'like' that!"

[bush_cheney2004]

there is no "like". your comparisons are brutal and serve no purpose.

you're like a child who tries to excuse bad actions by saying: "but he was doing something 'like' that!"

I'd rather be a child than a fool who refuses to recognize the policies and responsibilities of sovereignty. Israel is a sovereign state just like Canada and the USA, and the sooner you realize that the smarter you will be.

If you want to smugly judge Israel from cozy Canada, then be prepared to have it flung right back in your face.

Edited October 19, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bud]

I'd rather be a child than a fool who refuses to recognize the policies and responsibilities of sovereignty.

i hate to break it to you, israel and north korea, but not 'anything' goes when it comes to sovereignty. there is something called international law, which actually helped create the state of israel. putting aside human compassion, israel, just like almost all other countries are signatories to international law and they have a responsibility to follow it.

Edited October 21, 2010 by bud

[jbg]

i hate to break it to you, israel and north korea, but not 'anything' goes when it comes to sovereignty. there is something called international law, which actually helped create the state of israel. putting aside human compassion, israel, just like almost all other countries are signatories to international law and they have a responsibility to follow it.

And to you what is international law, Israel's suicide pact?

[jbg]

there you go again with your auto zionist bot response which makes no sense.

I am a Zionist, and quite proudly. Israel has built a land that gives Arabs more rights than any where in the Middle East. The right to vote and sit in the Knesset. And if you're a gay Arab the right to live. If you're female, the right to legal protection against being "honor killed".

how is not attacking an aid ship and killing 9 civilians, a suicide pack?

how is removing the settlements a suicide pack?

think before you type.

Speaking of "think(ing) before (I) type" your use of the term "suicide pack" is a Freudian slip which would be hilarious if the results of the use of the real "suicide packs", or knapsacks or belts filled with explosives weren't so senseless and tragic. The deployers of children, teens and immature adults with these "suicide packs" are cowards who believe in cutting short the lives of brides chatting with their fathers at cafes.

Your views are revolting and despicable.

Edited October 21, 2010 by jbg

[dre]

And to you what is international law, Israel's suicide pact?

Thats melodramatic hypbole. If Israel respected the international treaties that they have signed, they would have MORE security not LESS.

[bud]

And to you what is international law, Israel's suicide pact?

there you go again with your auto zionist bot response which makes no sense.

how is not attacking an aid ship and killing 9 civilians, a suicide pack?

how is removing the settlements a suicide pack?

think before you type.

[M.Dancer]

there you go again with your auto zionist bot response which makes no sense.

how is not attacking an aid ship and killing 9 civilians, a suicide pack?

how is removing the settlements a suicide pack?

think before you type.

How is not controlling what goes in to to Gaza, that which in the past has been used for terrorist attacks, not a suicide pact? Allowing the terrorists free movement is a suicide pact, killing a few here and there, even the usefull idiots who champion the terrorists is simply self preservation and good policy.

[dre]

I am a Zionist, and quite proudly. Israel has built a land that gives Arabs more rights than any where in the Middle East. The right to vote and sit in the Knesset. And if you're a gay Arab the right to live. If you're female, the right to legal protection against being "honor killed".

Speaking of "think(ing) before (I) type" your use of the term "suicide pack" is a Freudian slip which would be hilarious if the results of the use of the real "suicide packs", or knapsacks or belts filled with explosives weren't so senseless and tragic. The deployers of children, teens and immature adults with these "suicide packs" are cowards who believe in cutting short the lives of brides chatting with their fathers at cafes.

Your views are revolting and despicable.

The deployers of children, teens and immature adults with these "suicide packs" are cowards who believe in cutting short the lives of brides chatting with their fathers at cafes.

Right... and politicians that send 18 year olds to die by the thousands are... cool and tough!

Trust me... you can be sure these people would rather have a shiny new fighter plane to deliver ordinance to the target. But these are guerillas against a VASTLY superior opponent. Assymetric warfare is the only option at their disposal. They arent gonna march out onto the battle field, stand in a line, and fight fair.

Israel is trying to permanently occupy an area with millions of hostile inhabitants in it, and settle it and plunder its resources. The relatively managable ammount of succesful attacks against it are just the cost of doing business.

[jbg]

Trust me... you can be sure these people would rather have a shiny new fighter plane to deliver ordinance to the target. But these are guerillas against a VASTLY superior opponent. Assymetric warfare is the only option at their disposal. They arent gonna march out onto the battle field, stand in a line, and fight fair.

So you're saying it's O.K. for Israel's opponents to fight asymetrically but if Israel kills any civilians in an attack aimed primarily at military targets it's offensive? You'll have to explain that.

[DogOnPorch]

So you're saying it's O.K. for Israel's opponents to fight asymetrically but if Israel kills any civilians in an attack aimed primarily at military targets it's offensive? You'll have to explain that.

Meh...if it was up to some of these posters, Israel would be disarmed completely.

[Slim]

So you're saying it's O.K. for Israel's opponents to fight asymetrically but if Israel kills any civilians in an attack aimed primarily at military targets it's offensive? You'll have to explain that.

He never once said it's okay to kill anyone.

The point that dre is trying to get across (if he forgives me for stepping in), is of course Palestinian resistance will manifest in the form of 'terrorism' and guerrilla tactics. That's the only logical option available to them. And really, it's working, by drawing international attention to the issue.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... That's the only logical option available to them. And really, it's working, by drawing international attention to the issue.

Really? The only logical option? Why is it the only logical option compared to the IRA and the UK or First Nations' land claims in Canada? Would it be "logical" to begin launching rockets towards Hamilton, Ontario?

[Slim]

I should clarify. In terms of violent resistance, it is the logical choice for them.

[jbg]

I should clarify. In terms of violent resistance, it is the logical choice for them.

Why didn't the Jews of Europe, during the 1000 or so years of persecution, find "violent resistance...the logical choice"?

[Slim]

Why didn't the Jews of Europe, during the 1000 or so years of persecution, find "violent resistance...the logical choice"?

You sure they didn't? You think all the Jews that were massacred, ghettoized (not sure if that's a word), marginalized and pushed around never fought back? Granted, I'm not an expert in Jewish history, but I'd have a hard time believing they took all that abuse lying down. I'd bet good money they resisted violently in some cases.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is. What were you getting at?

[jbg]

You sure they didn't? You think all the Jews that were massacred, ghettoized (not sure if that's a word), marginalized and pushed around never fought back? Granted, I'm not an expert in Jewish history, but I'd have a hard time believing they took all that abuse lying down. I'd bet good money they resisted violently in some cases.

You should read up on this area. Actally the Jews' usual response was to either take the abuse lying down and hope for better times, or to move on. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of, I believe, 1943 was one of the few situations where the Jews violently resisted. The Jews generally have historically been a bookish group that was not much involved with violence.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is. What were you getting at?

The ultimate response of the Jews was to form the Zionist movement in the late 1890's. It was clear, from L'Affaire Dreyfusse that even the most "enlightened" and "cultured" European countries were fast turning into death traps. It was almost as clear that the tidal wave of emigration to the U.S. and later (after the U.S. slammed the door) Canada was unsustainable. That was the historical setting in which Theodore Herzl began raising money to buy up land in what is now Israel from absentee Turkish landlords. There was briefly a coincidence of interest with Britain when the Jewish settling seemed to offer a way for the British to control and dominate the Mideast after the Ottoman loss in World War I and the implosion of its empire.

The point is the Jews were and are out of places to run. And we will not be goaded into further suicide.

[Slim]

You should read up on this area. Actally the Jews' usual response was to either take the abuse lying down and hope for better times, or to move on. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of, I believe, 1943 was one of the few situations where the Jews violently resisted. The Jews generally have historically been a bookish group that was not much involved with violence.

I'll have to take your word on this, because I have very little knowledge of Jewish history in that sense, although it flies in the face of common sense for Jews to always 'turn the other cheek', so to speak.

In any case, I did a quick search of Jewish resistance in wiki, and they didn't always act so bookishly!

The point is the Jews were and are out of places to run. And we will not be goaded into further suicide

The sad fact is that long-term Jewish security is being damaged by their current policies. By refusing to make any earnest attempts to meet a peaceful resolution with the Palestinians, they only alienate themselves in the region. Which, in the end, will cause much more grief for everyone. I do not envy Israel and its children.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The sad fact is that long-term Jewish security is being damaged by their current policies. By refusing to make any earnest attempts to meet a peaceful resolution with the Palestinians, they only alienate themselves in the region. Which, in the end, will cause much more grief for everyone. I do not envy Israel and its children.

Interesting..do you mean "Jewish" or "Israeli"? Are Jews in Canada not secure?