So how do you like our coalition gov

[PIK]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

[ToadBrother]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

Well everyone knew the gun registry was going to be a squeaker. As to complaining about the Opposition knocking everything the Government does, I guess it's just a story of the shoe being on the other foot.

Remember, Parliament is the boss at the end of the day, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. If the Tories feel hard done by in all of this, call an election.

[Topaz]

The way the Tories want it, it WILL cost more to have a short version and besides what's the big deal over filling out a census every five years and the long form not everyone gets. If the Tories were serious about this they would make some compromises to please all parties but that's not the Tory style. Just wait for the vote on the Fighters, its too much money and the Tories have 55 Billion deficit and any money for these jets would be BORROWED money so then you have interest on that.

[waldo]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

gee... if only the 2/3rds of Canadians that don't support Harper Conservatives could just get with program - hey? "Coaltion, squawk", "Coaltion, squawk"...

[dre]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

Actually, while I havent actually researched this, my impression has been that this minority government is relatively functional.

In any case the last thing Canada needs any time in the forseeable future is a majority government... liberal or conservative. I dont think that we have the kind of people in politics these days that can be trusted with a majority of parliament.

[charter.rights]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

This latest vote has been the closest thing to democracy that we have had in the history of Canada. Go figure that the Conservatives don't like democracy. Maybe fascism works better for them?

[wyly]

This latest vote has been the closest thing to democracy that we have had in the history of Canada. Go figure that the Conservatives don't like democracy. Maybe fascism works better for them?

very good point...that's what has been overlooked, in a democratic vote the majority of the MPs representing the majority of the population voted to keep the registry...what part of democracy doesn't Harper understand that he still insists that the minority must have it's way?...

-first he locks the doors of parliament because he can't have his way-prorogue

-then he's told us he does not have to answer to parliament-afghan inquiry

-now he is telling us he doesn't respect the democratic process...

[wyly]

Now that they have hung another bil or 2 on our backs with the gun reg, now they are going to force us again to do the census. Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

oh..I thought you were referring to how the liberals have propped up the conservatives

[ToadBrother]

oh..I thought you were referring to how the liberals have propped up the conservatives

Yup, I'll say it again. WE have a coalition in all but name. The Libs and the Tories are like a common law marriage. No nuptials, but still having sex.

[Shady]

The only good thing about those morons defeating the gun registry will be the alienation of more voters. The opposition just brought another 5 or 6 seats into the Conservatives hands.

[Dave_ON]

The only good thing about those morons defeating the gun registry will be the alienation of more voters. The opposition just brought another 5 or 6 seats into the Conservatives hands.

I guess we'll just have to see if it impacts the next poll to make that determination. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the elusive CPC bounce in support though.

[PIK]

This latest vote has been the closest thing to democracy that we have had in the history of Canada. Go figure that the Conservatives don't like democracy. Maybe fascism works better for them?

Forcing people to allow the goverment to have peek inside your house is democracy? Forcing canadians to pay for something that never has or will never work is democracy?

Edited September 24, 2010 by PIK

[eyeball]

Yup, I'll say it again. WE have a coalition in all but name. The Libs and the Tories are like a common law marriage. No nuptials, but still having sex.

In the case of these two, that would be more like unprotected public sex.

I'm reminded of Mr. Canada's concern about unmentionable flying objects or objectionable flying unmentionables, either way it's been a pretty rude spectacle.

[wyly]

I guess we'll just have to see if it impacts the next poll to make that determination. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the elusive CPC bounce in support though.

the registry made no difference before and it won't now...the conservatives are playing it up trying to make it a divisive issue because they have nothing else...in the next election how is the registry going to take center stage over the economy, unemployment and the conservative arrogance and it's distaste for democracy...

[fellowtraveller]

Is this it now ,no matter what harper does the 3 will just vote it down.

The rubber will hit the road when Harper makes every vote a vote of confidence.

The Opposition has folded like a $49 tent from Walmart when they face that prospect.

[eyeball]

Forcing people to allow the goverment to have peek inside your house is democracy? Forcing canadians to pay for something that never has or will never work is democracy?

Nobody forced people to hold their noses while politicians ran every which way with the issue of gun control.

[ToadBrother]

The rubber will hit the road when Harper makes every vote a vote of confidence.

The Opposition has folded like a $49 tent from Walmart when they face that prospect.

With the polls since early 2009 basically showing a holding pattern of the Tories just a smidgen above the Liberals, there isn't going to be that kind of behavior. The Tories are no more willing to test the electoral waters right now than anybody else.

[Evening Star]

Forcing people to allow the goverment to have peek inside your house is democracy? Forcing canadians to pay for something that never has or will never work is democracy?

Majority rule certainly is democracy.

[ToadBrother]

ame='PIK' date='24 September 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1285356837' post='582615']

Majority rule certainly is democracy.

Unrestricted majority rule is mobocracy. The vote of the Athenians to force Socrates to drink hemlock tea was certainly democratic, but it was hardly sound conduct.

[Evening Star]

Yeah, fair enough. I don't think a majority vote in favour of the long-gun registry is quite the same though. It was a perfectly fair and legitimate example of our system of parliamentary democracy functioning as it is meant to, constitutionally.

[Evening Star]

If anything, it would make more sense to me to say that the govt imposing the scrapping of the mandatory long-form census or restricting what scientists can tell the press are more undemocratic actions.

[ToadBrother]

Yeah, fair enough. I don't think a majority vote in favour of the long-gun registry is quite the same though. It was a perfectly fair and legitimate example of our system of parliamentary democracy functioning as it is meant to, constitutionally.

Well, I'm not going to debate you on it. I think it's wrong and pandering and will not save a single life, but certainly isn't an egregious enough example of leaning on civil liberties to say that an absolute majority isn't sufficient. However, the fact remains that Layton leaned heavily on NDP MPs to please his Opposition "partners". His conduct, at least, was hardly above reproach, and we'll have to wait and see if the NDP suffer for it. There are some MPs in more rural ridings who may suffer the consequences of this one.

[ToadBrother]

If anything, it would make more sense to me to say that the govt imposing the scrapping of the mandatory long-form census or restricting what scientists can tell the press are more undemocratic actions.

Also bad policies, but our system does afford the Executive a great deal of latitude, even in a minority situation. If the Opposition felt as strongly about these issues as they proclaimed, they could have brought the Government down. The Government's latitude of action ends where the confidence vote hits the ground.

[Evening Star]

Well, I'm not going to debate you on it. I think it's wrong and pandering and will not save a single life, but certainly isn't an egregious enough example of leaning on civil liberties to say that an absolute majority isn't sufficient.

The second part of that is all I was saying, really.

However, the fact remains that Layton leaned heavily on NDP MPs to please his Opposition "partners". His conduct, at least, was hardly above reproach, and we'll have to wait and see if the NDP suffer for it. There are some MPs in more rural ridings who may suffer the consequences of this one.

Do we actually know what Layton did to pressure his MPs? I'm not sure that he actually did anything that was reproachable? Enough of them still voted against the registry, including e.g. the young backbencher Niki Ashton, and seem to be keeping their seats. You're right that the party is already suffering though. Layton should have just emphasized the NDP principle of not whipping votes on private members' bills as a matter of democracy and, of course, should also have avoided even the appearance of pressuring MPs one way or the other at all.

[lukin]

the registry made no difference before and it won't now...the conservatives are playing it up trying to make it a divisive issue because they have nothing else...in the next election how is the registry going to take center stage over the economy, unemployment and the conservative arrogance and it's distaste for democracy...

What kind of shape would the economy be in if your hero, Jack Layton was at the helm?