Did Castro Reject Communism

[scribblet]

Did he really reject communism - well he was wearing a pair of New Balance runners.. - do they sell them in Cuba.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5777038/did_fidel_castro_reject_communism.html?cat=9

The second part of Jeffrey Goldberg's article in the Atlantic about his conversation with Fidel Castro, retired tyrant of Cuba, has a more astonishing revelation than did the first. Castro,

it seems, has started to sour on communism as practiced in Cuba:

"But during the generally lighthearted conversation (we had just spent three hours talking about Iran and the Middle East), I asked him if he believed the Cuban model was still something worth exporting.

"'The Cuban model doesn't even work for us anymore,' he said.

"This struck me as the mother of all Emily Litella moments. Did the leader of the Revolution just say, in essence, 'Never mind'?"

Mind, there are a number of ways to interpret this recantation. Some might think, as did Goldberg's traveling companion, that Castro was not so much rejecting the ideals of communism than how it was applied to Cuba in the past 50 years. Castro could also be providing cover for his brother Raul, who is starting to gingerly enact some free-market reforms.

cont...

[Shady]

I think he did in fact reject communism. I'm waiting to hear how our communist forum friends react to the news. I'm guessing we'll hear the usual line about how it wasn't "correctly implemented!"

[bloodyminded]

I think he did in fact reject communism. I'm waiting to hear how our communist forum friends react to the news. I'm guessing we'll hear the usual line about how it wasn't "correctly implemented!"

Which forum members are communists?

[Jack Weber]

Which forum members are communists?

That's something I'd like to know...I mean at Rabble there are some unabashed pinko's but I have'nt noticed too many of the die hard Hammer and Sickle crowd here

[nicky10013]

Which forum members are communists?

I suppose by his logic, the mere knowledge of the theory and practice of communism must make them one.

[Shady]

Which forum members are communists?

Jerry J. Fortin and KeyStone, that I know of. There's probably a few close communists as well.

[Smallc]

Jerry J. Fortin

I don't care what you think or what he calls himself...he's definitely not.

[GostHacked]

Castro is saying that the Communist model no longer works for Cuba. It's not so much a rejection but a reality.

[Shady]

I don't care what you think or what he calls himself...he's definitely not.

He's admitted openly in the forum. Perhaps he mischaracterized himself, but I take him at his word.

[bloodyminded]

There are people who call themselves "libertarians" who believe in greater government intrusion in every aspect of citizens lives (but with lower taxes...as if that's the sum and essence of "big government" ). There are self-proclaimed "leftists" who never met a left-wing notion that they liked, nor a conservative one with which they disagree. There are "conservatives" who appear to be in total agreement with Noam Chomsky on virtually every point.

Nuances and the problems of such labels aside, it makes no difference if a person deems him or herself a "communist." None. All that matters is that they adhere to the actual ideas/ideals of communism as it is, or as its (still dwindling) proponents insist it should be.

Self-assessment doesn't seem particularly useful.

Edited September 11, 2010 by bloodyminded

[scribblet]

He's denying he said that now, http://www.cnbc.com/id/39102590 he meant Capitalism doesn't work - I wonder how it could have been so misunderstood ?

[jbg]

I think he did in fact reject communism. I'm waiting to hear how our communist forum friends react to the news. I'm guessing we'll hear the usual line about how it wasn't "correctly implemented!"

If Castro has the brains he was born with he'd understand that Communism can never work. Having self-aggrandized for 53 years (almost exactly as long as I've been alive) it's rich of him to in effect say "sorry, Batista was right". Maybe he'll donate his Swiss bank accounts to Cuba's reconstruction.

[bloodyminded]

If Castro has the brains he was born with he'd understand that Communism can never work. Having self-aggrandized for 53 years (almost exactly as long as I've been alive) it's rich of him to in effect say "sorry, Batista was right". Maybe he'll donate his Swiss bank accounts to Cuba's reconstruction.

Anyone who says "Batista was right" is saying that dictatorial murderers who sell out their nation to gangsters (literally!) are right.

There's an excellent scene in the Godfather Part 2, in which a perfect metaphor--unemphasized, so easy to miss--is used: Cuban officials, powerful businessmen, and the Mafia sit together, friends as always, cavalierly slicing up a cake--which is in the shape of Cuba.

[Oleg Bach]

Castro and his clan have one of the largest private estates in the area..It was never about "communism" - remember - the capitialist have always supported Castro...If the whole thing had been legitimate - then there would NEVER have been an America base on Castro's turf - I wish you people would get it that all socialism or communism is a construct of slavery enhanced and funded by nasty extreme capitalists ----------commies don't have any money - someone supplied the arms originally - and it was a capitialist...

Yes Castro has no real personal use for communism other than it being a great supply of cheap stupified labour for a small upper class which encludes him - The old boy lived like a king - while "his" duped people had to recycle car parts from 1950 in order to get around..

[scribblet]

Well, it seems that Cuba is onto something 500,000 people to be laid off. Raise rabbits, really -

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100914/cuba-reforms-100914/

HAVANA — Cuba's communist leaders have already determined what they want soon-to-be-dismissed workers to do after they get their pink slips in massive government layoffs, detailing a plan for them to raise rabbits, paint buildings, make bricks, collect garbage and pilot ferries across Havana's bay.

The plans, along with a timetable for which government sectors will get the axe first, are laid out in an internal Communist Party document obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press. Cuba on Monday announced plans to cut 500,000 state workers by March 2011 and help them get work in the private sector, in the most sweeping reforms instituted since President Raul Castro took over from his brother in 2008.

Many of those to be let go will be urged to form private co-operatives. Others will be pushed into jobs at foreign-run companies and joint ventures. Still more will need to set up their own small business -- particularly in the areas of transport and house rental -- according to an internal Communist Party document obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press.

cont.

[jbg]

Well, it seems that Cuba is onto something 500,000 people to be laid off. Raise rabbits, really -

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100914/cuba-reforms-100914/

cont.

These aren't "reforms". Cuba is broke. Castro got rich in the process. Now he's "against" what made him rich. Sort of like Henry Clay freeing a few slaves just before he died. Or Thomas Jefferson freeing some slaves in his will.

[bud]

of course communism doesn't work. neither does capitalism. they're both utopian systems that do not take into consideration so many other variables.

i wonder if communist cuba's unemployment rate of 1.9% that it has today will go anywhere near the capitalist u.s.'s unemployment rate of 9.6% after the 500k job loss.

Edited September 17, 2010 by bud

[Jack Weber]

If Castro has the brains he was born with he'd understand that Communism can never work. Having self-aggrandized for 53 years (almost exactly as long as I've been alive) it's rich of him to in effect say "sorry, Batista was right". Maybe he'll donate his Swiss bank accounts to Cuba's reconstruction.

I don't think he is saying that Batista was right...The reason for Castro becoming remotely popular was because the Fulgencio Batista regime was so viscious and corrupt(and propped up by the US),that a leftist thug like Castro looked good by comparison...And I'll bet there's more than a few bucks from the Batista regime sitting around in some Swiss bank account somewhere...

[Shady]

(and propped up by the US)

Kinda like Canada has propped up Castro for the last several decades.

[Oleg Bach]

Power always loves luxury - Fidel totally regected communism personally and lived extremely well..but he did convince those that were stupid that it was a good thing - and just like all socialist take overs you have to kill anyone that understands what is really going on..and he did. I mean kill them. If you want to create a socialist state with a tiny elite..first thing you do is rally the ordinary to swarm and destroy the extra ordinary...Just like Russia...they killed all the smart ones and created a car called Lada...a rusting, poorly designed - unreliable...UGLY utlitarian car....and the spirit of communism is ugly...wait - I grant them to much..the spirit of socialism is the fact they have no spirit.

This is a battle and always will be of granting the weak and inferiour power over their superiours..it is the rule of the beast. They say power to the people...I say - do not grant power to those that destroy power.

[Pliny]

Power always loves luxury - Fidel totally regected communism personally and lived extremely well..but he did convince those that were stupid that it was a good thing - and just like all socialist take overs you have to kill anyone that understands what is really going on..and he did. I mean kill them. If you want to create a socialist state with a tiny elite..first thing you do is rally the ordinary to swarm and destroy the extra ordinary...Just like Russia...they killed all the smart ones and created a car called Lada...a rusting, poorly designed - unreliable...UGLY utlitarian car....and the spirit of communism is ugly...wait - I grant them to much..the spirit of socialism is the fact they have no spirit.

Truth served up hot and nutritional.

[Jack Weber]

Kinda like Canada has propped up Castro for the last several decades.

Could you please explain for everyone how Canada has been "propped up " by Mr. Castro for the last several decades??

I'm sure you know this,Professor Kitzel,but several usually refers to more than 2...So you're saying more than 20 years...

Please explain,and as always,be specific...

Edited September 19, 2010 by Jack Weber

[bloodyminded]

Could you please explain for everyone how Canada has been "propped up " by Mr. Castro for the last several decades??

I'm sure you know this,Professor Kitzel,but several usually refers to more than 2...So you're saying more than 20 years...

Please explain,and as always,be specific...

He didn't say we've been propped up by Castro; he said we have been propping him up.

It's still patent nonsense, of course....

I'd also be interested to know at what point in the last, oh, 24 hours or so that Shady began to oppose relationships with dictators. He's offerred no opposition to it before.

[jbg]

I don't think he is saying that Batista was right...The reason for Castro becoming remotely popular was because the Fulgencio Batista regime was so viscious and corrupt(and propped up by the US),that a leftist thug like Castro looked good by comparison...And I'll bet there's more than a few bucks from the Batista regime sitting around in some Swiss bank account somewhere...

Castro was helped to look good by the Soviet-era subsidies. It was the USSR's way of sticking a finger in the U.S.'s eye; have a client state 90 miles from the U.S.'s border.

Kinda like Canada has propped up Castro for the last several decades.

Could you please explain for everyone how Canada has been "propped up " by Mr. Castro for the last several decades??

Shady said that Canada has propped up Castro, not the other way around. If Canada and other Western countries had continued to isolate Castro the regime would have collapsed after the cessation of USSR subsidies.

[bloodyminded]

Castro was helped to look good by the Soviet-era subsidies. It was the USSR's way of sticking a finger in the U.S.'s eye; have a client state 90 miles from the U.S.'s border.

Shady said that Canada has propped up Castro, not the other way around. If Canada and other Western countries had continued to isolate Castro the regime would have collapsed after the cessation of USSR subsidies.

Even if this is true, the selectivity is astonishing. How many tyrannies have been "propped up" in similar (often worse, ie violent) means by Western democracies? How many of them have made Castro look like Gandhi in comparison?

(You'll need more than just your fingers and toes to count 'em.)