jbg Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 What would be much more useful is how many times the registry lead to a criminal prosecution...which is 0. But no one will admit it...sigh. Easier to pass laws and waste money than to enforce existing laws. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO Asked about the bamboozle of the federal gun-registry system, a billion-dollar fiasco, Fantino — who does not support the registry, unlike most police chiefs in Canada — noted that the system has not helped Toronto police solve a single homicide. "We have spent an extraordinary amount of money in this one area, but we haven't given the same attention with regards to gun crime in our society." Source: Quote from The Toronto Star – "A shot fired across the bow of a smug Toronto"– Column by Rosie Dimanno – Page A02, March 10, 2004 Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 “We register our cars, we register our marriages, we register everything else. What’s the big deal with registering a gun? (Julian Fantino, CBC Prime Time News, August 25, 1994) Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 “We register our cars, we register our marriages, we register everything else. What’s the big deal with registering a gun? (Julian Fantino, CBC Prime Time News, August 25, 1994) In 1994 he didn't know the whole story and lies. Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) A very obvious concern to us in policing is that I want my police officers to know where there are firearms when they respond to calls, especially those that very often entail dangerous situations, Julian Fantino said. (Canadian Press, August 22, 1995) Edited January 25, 2011 by guyser Quote
madmax Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 “A very obvious concern to us in policing is that I want my police officers to know where there are firearms when they respond to calls, especially those that very often entail dangerous situations,” Julian Fantino said. (Canadian Press, August 22, 1995) I love Fantino. Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO Since the Guns and Gangs Task Force began conducting compliance checks on residents freed on bail after being charged in a gun-related crime, "almost 50% were breaching their conditions," he said. During such "house calls" over the last four months, 119 of the 239 accused criminals checked were re-arrested for failing to live up to pre-trial release orders. "What does that tell you? They are not intimidated or deterred by the consequences of their actions," Fantino said. Toronto Police statistics show that "84% of the people we arrest for gun-related offences are all career criminals," he said. Toronto cops last year also responded to a total of 3,285 "gun calls" placed by residents who reported seeing someone with a firearm, hearing gunshots or someone indicating they had a gun. In 2002, there were 2,998 gun calls. Fantino said he got a "good reception" in recent conversations with federal and provincial lawmakers. In addition to pressing for anyone arrested on a gun-related crime to be denied bail, Fantino wants mandatory 10-year prison terms for convicted gunmen instead of "graduated scales." Denying bail would avoid "the revolving door" that leaves witnesses in fear after thugs are quickly freed, Fantino said. "Let's put the fear back into criminals and not into citizens, as the gunmen have been doing," he said. Source: Quote from The Toronto Sun – "IT'S US VS. GUNS FANTINO REVEALS PLANS FOR COMMUNITY SUMMIT" – January 28, 2004 Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 RETIRED TORONTO POLICE SGT MICHAEL MAYS Re: Canada's gun laws must be tougher Editorial, Sept. 18. Though the chiefs of police may endorse it, as a working police officer in Toronto for 33 years, I found the long gun registry terribly flawed and a waste of time, energy and money. It needs to be dismantled, not strengthened. For the last six years, I worked the streets of the Jane-Finch area, so I've attended my share of weapons calls. Not once did I ever seek or rely on information from the gun registry. It was irrelevant. Your statement that it is used 5,000 times a day by police is misleading. A check of the registry is done automatically every time an officer is dispatched to an address, wanted or not. From its inception, I was advised not to depend on it to make decisions. It is outdated, inaccurate and completely unreliable. To make a decision at a call based on registry information would be foolish at best and deadly at worst. Gun free zones would ensure only criminals have guns and central repositories would only ensure a greater haul when they are broken into. Perhaps, if there are more officers walking the streets or the courts were not so backlogged that plea bargaining has become a necessity, gun crime might be detected early and punished appropriately. The $2 billion from the gun registry would have gone a long way in making that happen. SOURCE: Toronto Star Letter, "A flawed waste of time and money", Page A25, September 21, 2006 Quote
segnosaur Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 “We register our cars, we register our marriages, we register everything else. What’s the big deal with registering a gun? (Julian Fantino, CBC Prime Time News, August 25, 1994) We register our cars because we tend to operate them on public motorways, where they will be interacting with other people. As such, controlling them properly (and ensuring they are in acceptable condition) is necessary. We register marriages because it is necessary to legally state personal relationships for things like tax purposes, estate planning, etc., all of which affect society at large. On the other hand, a rifle owned by a civilian is unlikely to ever be used on municipal property. (It will likely only be used on the owners property, or on shooting ranges or other private locations. Assuming it gets used at all; many firearms sit unused in closets for decades without ever being fired.) And the other hand, I'd also like to point out that no, we don't "register everything else". I don't have to register who I'm dating (if I'm not marrying them), what type of TV I own, or the type of food I eat. We register things when the possession/use of the item is likely to affect other people or society in general. Quote
PIK Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 If it was all about safety, then allow the police to look at the records of the PAL,then they will know if there are guns around. Very simple and it would work the same without pissing every gun owner off. But it has nothing to do with safety, it is a step closer to just taking the guns, something like the 30"s in germany. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 If it was all about safety, then allow the police to look at the records of the PAL,then they will know if there are guns around. Very simple and it would work the same without pissing every gun owner off. But it has nothing to do with safety, it is a step closer to just taking the guns, something like the 30"s in germany. You know, I do have to say the only argument that gun advocates use that I can relate to is that I might one day feel the need to get a gun to protect myself from our government, just in case it goes crazy. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) We register our cars because we tend to operate them on public motorways, where they will be interacting with other people. As such, controlling them properly (and ensuring they are in acceptable condition) is necessary. No we dont. We register them for assessing liability. And the other hand, I'd also like to point out that no, we don't "register everything else". I don't have to register who I'm dating (if I'm not marrying them), what type of TV I own, or the type of food I eat. We register things when the possession/use of the item is likely to affect other people or society in general. I dont disagree. But the quote is not mine, just a pin head cops. Dont confuse me with an anti-gunner or pro registry type Edited January 25, 2011 by guyser Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) If it was all about safety, then allow the police to look at the records of the PAL,then they will know if there are guns around. Very simple and it would work the same without pissing every gun owner off. But it has nothing to do with safety, it is a step closer to just taking the guns, something like the 30"s in germany. Yes... The Brownshirts are goosestepping through the streets as we speak... A modern day "Kristallnacht" towards gun owners is upon us!! The Ministry of Propaganda and Emlightenment will be publishing a modern version of Volkischer Beobachter shortly... Zieg Heil,mein freund!! Actually,seeing as you're a virulent right winger,perhaps your analogy (as utterly hyperbolic and pointless as it was) should have used a "Stalin" or "Chairman Mao" reference? Edited January 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Oleg Bach Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Don't need gun control. We need primary control over people that control people. In other words we need justice in our justice system...then people would not go wacko and take the law into their own hands with weaponry geared for revenge. You will find out in most cases involving gun violence in the states that the perpetrator is usually a disgruntled nut of some kind. The media and authorities never address why or how the offender him or herself was offended...instead they just right if off with "he was crazy'....Time that we had good judgement...instead of auto-policy that tramples over the real rights and freedoms of some. Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 No we dont. We register them for assessing liability. How does registration of cars prevent DUI? Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 How does registration of cars prevent DUI? English...learn it. What does DUI have to do w liability? Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Yes... The Brownshirts are goosestepping through the streets as we speak... And some can't wait to have Police State in Canada. "I came to Ottawa in November with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers" - - - Alan Rock, "Taking Aim on Guns" Maclean's, April 25, 1994, pg.12 "The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of these elements make difficult the collection of taxes and dues, and tends to permit uprising. Therefore, the heads of provinces, official agents, and deputies are ordered to collect all the weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the government." Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Shogun 29 August 1558 Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 CALGARY POLICE ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT Bolstering the Tories' argument is the Calgary Police Association, the union representing the city's police officers, which insists proposed mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes -- and not the gun registry -- will curb firearms offences. "Wiping the slate clean and not making responsible gun owners into criminals is a good start," said association president Al Koenig. SOURCE: Calgary Herald, "Alberta hails registry demise", Page A1, May 17, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 GILBERT YARD, RETIRED RCMP SUPERINTENDENT I am appalled at just how much has been spent to date on the firearms registration process. But perhaps even more disturbing is the misplaced focus on legal firearms. Like many reasonable Canadians, I support programs that address the structural and social situations that give rise to crime. Our first objective should be to promote law-abiding, non-destructive behaviour in as many members of society as possible. There comes a point, however, where punishment and protection of the public must be the focus. In these cases, illegal acts and violent behaviour should be treated with appropriate penalties. From reading my views on gun control and firearms legislation, I suspect that many might feel that I am a "gun nut" with pro-American feelings regarding gun possession. This is just not so. Growing up, my family had limited contact with firearms but we were raised to believe that a gun was a serious tool to be used in appropriate circumstances only. I can understand people who emotionally react to guns as all bad but I am convinced that such emotion can mask the true problem of illegal gun possession and/or usage. During my 37 years of policing I carried a handgun as a tool of my profession. I was also exposed to a wide cross-section of collectors and target shooters who used, stored and transported their weapons in a legal and responsible manner. They are not the problem. The misdirection of time, effort and funding is unforgivable. I believe that Canadians are much too astute to believe that either Bill C-68 or the proposed handgun legislation is anything other than a waste of time, effort and money. Wasting public funds that could really make a difference in acute justice issues, in my view, borders on criminal activity. SOURCE: THE NORTH SHORE NEWS, "Gun legislation an election issue" published January 11, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 LEO TONEGUZZI, RETIRED CHIEF OF POLICE WHEN WILL politicians quit abusing law-abiding members of our society for personal gain? Guns do not kill people. People kill people. Whether it is a gun, knife, baseball bat or other weapon it is merely the means to gain the end result. Mr. Martin, your government promised that the foolhardy gun registration laws you initiated would end the high amount of violence throughout Canada. That plan failed and now to get votes in the greater G.T.A. area you propose an entire ban on all handguns. Did the government ever take a good look at why the violence is occurring? What has the justice system done for us? (Add up the number of years spent in jail by these offenders in the past 10 years for the serious crimes they committed.) Have you tracked the parole boards' decisions? (How many re-offenders have committed serious crimes while on parole?) Who are committing these violent crimes? Is there a common link to drugs? Why can criminals readily obtain hand guns brought in from the U.S.A.? Who are the persons committing all these violent crimes in Toronto? Is there a common link to any specific people and has anyone tried to improve society of these persons, or addressed their problems? Finally, how many of these crimes have been committed by persons who legally own registered handguns? NONE! SOURCE: Thunder Bay Chronicle-Journal Letter: "Rob Liberals of 3 area seats over latest foolhardy gun ban" December 17, 2005 Quote
guyser Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 Man where do you get these idiotic things, seems Leo is as dumb as the last guy Lets see now.... LEO TONEGUZZI, RETIRED CHIEF OF POLICE Guns do not kill people. People kill people. No wait just a minute Leo, one of your compadres opined that The Gun Registry would kill officers so guns must. Now about those paper cuts !. Mr. Martin, your government promised that the foolhardy gun registration laws you initiated would end the high amount of violence throughout Canada. What? High amount? I wonder if someone has an agenda? Stick to the facts Leo, leave your emotions out of it. Who are the persons committing all these violent crimes in Toronto? Is there a common link to any specific people and has anyone tried to improve society of these persons, or addressed their problems? Finally, how many of these crimes have been committed by persons who legally own registered handguns? NONE! Hey Leo....boy are you stupid....Why not tell us what you've done to "improve society of these person, or adressed their problems" After all, Thunder Bay is ranked 34 places higher than TO on the Crime severity Index. TBay ranked 23rd, TO ranked 57th. Another idiot engaging mouth before brain. Quote
PIK Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 You know, I do have to say the only argument that gun advocates use that I can relate to is that I might one day feel the need to get a gun to protect myself from our government, just in case it goes crazy. Or the americans when they run out of oil and water. lol Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
PIK Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 Butter and eggs are on sale. You know, for relevance to the topic at hand. Are those eggs inspected ,if not the egg police will be showing up, and unforunitly I am not joking. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 No wait just a minute Leo, one of your compadres opined that The Gun Registry would kill officers The stupid ones who rely on registration. After all, Thunder Bay is ranked 34 places higher than TO on the Crime severity Index. TBay ranked 23rd, TO ranked 57th. How they run on native population? Btw, Winnipoeg beat them all. By far. "Another idiot engaging mouth before brain." Quote
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