Harper's View

[Topaz]

Old Harper is telling people up North that its the Tory's majority in the elction or Canadians will have to deal with the three parties together as a coalition! Well, I guess that says it all when it comes time to go back into the Commons doesn't it. He going to be hard to deal with again and with Baird as House Leader for the government, he's declaring war. HArper is goiung for an election and if he thinks he can win, then let HIM call one. My bet is Canadians will come out in groves to send him back to Alberta! Thoughts? http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/harper-says-choice-in-next-election-is-tory-majority-or-opposition-coaltion-101629833.html

[Keepitsimple]

I guess that's politics and when you make dumb mistakes, you pay for them. Posters on this very board seem to think the coalition was a good idea and that it should have been given a chance to form government. The Coalition was a Liberal plan......so why would you not think that they might try it again? Because Iggy says they won't? Pretty naive.....especially with some Liberals and pundits pointing to the "success" of the UK coalition government. It cuts both ways. Paul Martin was frantically running around telling people that the Conservatives were such an extreme right-wing party that we wouldn't recognize Canada when he got finished with it. Come to think of it - the Liberals continued that theme in their last two election failures.....that theme is pretty outrageous. So.....now that they have a track record of talking about coalition governments, why is it so unreasonable for Harper and the Conservatives to say that it may very well happen if we let it? Liberals made their bed - now they have to sleep in it.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[NA Carter]

As much as I can't stand Harper, and wouldn't mind a coalition; I can't see how the Liberals plan to get there. They have no ideas, no alternatives to the Harper agenda. You can only go so far in a campaign with a "but at least we're not Harper" platform. That seems to be all Iggy is running on right now. As much as liberals and leftists want to jump all over the census and VA ombudsman issues, the reality is that they really aren't that salient with the ordinary voter. Regular voters care about taxes, health care and jobs. The Liberals aren't offering any alternatives on these fronts, and their potential gains are pretty limited. Either way, Canada is headed toward another minority gov't.

[Topaz]

I think what could happen if the Libs don't show any leadership, then I could see the NDP forming a minority government to vote out the Tories. Before you say that can't happen, there are people hurting from the recession and they need a government to help them now and in future and the NDP so far are offering the social programs that people need. They are the only ones with plan for pensions and other program to help. Harper is too busy putting us into debt and playing his political games. People want and need action but the not the kind that Harper is giving.

[William Ashley]

Canadians are largely swayed by the media or "Large Events" or cuts that actually effect them.

That is what the election is all about - the type of press they get in that given time frame. Anything they do or say is potential ammo for press spin.

Frankly I'm socially liberal and tend to identify myself as more liberal than conservative or more leftist (as a social libertarian and fiscal conservative - but oddly economically populus rather than business, although pro market after essential services are done) - and the point here is that 1. Issue really has me know I won't vote liberal - the fact that the liberals have stated they want to extend the afghanistan mission - something I have always opposed, as I think it is a tremendous error on the part of Canada to take part in a UN combat mission, I don't like the idea of the UN installing governments - although it would perhaps be the US or Britain - I find foreign invasion to be imperialist something that doesn't enhance Canada's global image. Let mercenaries or private financers pay for the soilders to fight the endless guerilla war, not Canada's understaffed underfunded and underequiped military that is more needed defending Canada's tremendous landmass and closeby to help assist in a time of emergency - not to mention protecting Canadians pocket books - the 150 dead is only the dead, that number doesn't include the physical and mentally injured soilders, or those who may have been more brazened and further removed from stable social living after what they have gone through in the war - not to mention the loss of family time for something that appears to have little direct benefit to Canada. -- The war and banning dress are two things that lost my vote.

None the less that issue is what has me. The conservatives lost me when they gave 150 Billion to the banks while increasing the public debt 150 - and still have spent an additional 250 billion. They have the backdrop of a global recession to stem off criticism, and every level of government heaping on the debt like it was butterscottch on a sunday. I don't beleive in Keynensian Economics since that time governments have only increased public debt, increased taxes, and become more infringing on public freedoms. Economic policy (amounting to embezzlement) poorly administered and devised (the federal government shouldn't be funding municipal projects) "actionplan", really bad asset procurements (especially long term military ones), continued support for a war where even the leader they are trying to help isn't happy with them (regardless if he is a hoax puppet), and what has amounted to many times of poor insight (the whole this is what will happen 2 days later totally opposite thing happens) - they also are turning into a bad press magnet - this means more or less the press is no longer shining their luster. 90% of it is economics - that is the scary part since I'm fiscally conservative the only side the agenda would likely appeal to. The social problem is that I support a totally different justice administration than what is bieng proposed. I support a police funded gun registry (why cry if the police use their own funds for it?) Although I think there should be some exemptions BUT NOT FARMERS AND DUCK HUNTERS - it should be for "people who need a gun for government operations that are not transparent or secret in nature - eg. civil defence, undercover operations etc..

That is not to say I tend to vote regardless - as far as the NDP is concerned I am pretty neutral with the organization - but I have yet to see them present their intended budget - I think that would do a lot in helping me see what they plan to do with the tax structure - it seems undoubted they would raise corporate taxes - but how would this effect Canadian corporations positioning, or foreign investment in Canada? I'd really like to see them present a budget

The bloc refuses to run outside of Quebec so there is no potential there.

The green party would be a better lobby, and appears to be running on May -someone who has failed to accomplish a real push

of the party into "party status" by actually having a caucus in parliament. I also find their environmental policy - as I saw a couple years ago to be too light, and I didn't get a sense they had a concrete capacity to govern in mind - very disorganized in appearance. I felt they were just a front to weaken the liberal or NDP vote, where some treehugers would be more likely to lurk

than in the conservative party. Good and noble cause but I'd much rather have them back one of the parties - such as what stephan dion had going with the carbon taxes - something that would have done the green agenda a lot of good. None the less

I am fairly neutral with them, but a one issue party still hasn't done it for me.

So after self ostracizing and alienating myself from the mainstream, all I got to say is that, - I am hard pressed to see a party

that is prepared to govern responsibly for the public well being as of yet, and I really hope one emerges.

Check out my party website for more of my concepts that I think would do the public a lot of good.

http://williamashley.info/SOCIAL/SP/SP.htm

[msdogfood]

Old Harper is telling people up North that its the Tory's majority in the elction or Canadians will have to deal with the three parties together as a coalition! Well, I guess that says it all when it comes time to go back into the Commons doesn't it. He going to be hard to deal with again and with Baird as House Leader for the government, he's declaring war. HArper is goiung for an election and if he thinks he can win, then let HIM call one. My bet is Canadians will come out in groves to send him back to Alberta! Thoughts? http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/harper-says-choice-in-next-election-is-tory-majority-or-opposition-coaltion-101629833.html

I am 50/50 if he Des what you say he may get a majority or ecwily you may be on to something the trick will be .

is the opposition convinced they can win at all!???.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I am 50/50 if he Des what you say he may get a majority or ecwily you may be on to something the trick will be .

is the opposition convinced they can win at all!???.

Wrong question. Try can Harper win the majority?

Edited August 30, 2010 by Jerry J. Fortin

[Bryan]

Wrong question. Try can Harper win the majority?

It would be an extraordinary situation for any party to get a majority under the current circumstances. At least one party would have to have a total collapse.

One thing that could bring about such a collapse would be if the voters believe that the opposition parties might form a post-election coalition. Harper's polling numbers jumped almost 20% when the threat of a coalition was raised last time. Ignatieff said things like "a coalition if necessary" enough times, that the campaign ads will be pretty easy to make.

[Wild Bill]

I think what could happen if the Libs don't show any leadership, then I could see the NDP forming a minority government to vote out the Tories. Before you say that can't happen, there are people hurting from the recession and they need a government to help them now and in future and the NDP so far are offering the social programs that people need. They are the only ones with plan for pensions and other program to help. Harper is too busy putting us into debt and playing his political games. People want and need action but the not the kind that Harper is giving.

You really should look at things mathematically, Topaz. If we had 10% of the people unemployed with no hope of a job that's a bad figure but it also means that 90% of people HAVE jobs!

The NDP gets good support from those with no jobs. They don't do so well with folks that do! That's because the perception is that NDP governments mean higher taxes taken off your pay cheque.

It may not be a true perception but it is what it is. Unless we have more than half of our people on welfare I don't EVER see an NDP government in Ottawa, unless the NDP drastically changes and modernizes to become more like the Labour Party in Britain. Right now they always sound like they want to wage a strike with General Motors, in 1965! They just haven't changed with the times.

[Smallc]

One thing that could bring about such a collapse would be if the voters believe that the opposition parties might form a post-election coalition.

Given recent happenings in the UK, I doubt that would be such a scary thought to people. I know you guys will try, but I doubt you'd succeed.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Smallc

[capricorn]

Given recent happenings in the UK, I doubt that would be such a scary thought to people.

Honestly, Smallc. Do you really think average Canadians are paying attention to politics in the UK? Hell, we can't get more than a 60% turnout at our federal elections and some of them don't even know who they're voting for.

[Smallc]

So you don't think that the media is going to talk about that coalition in the UK if there is mention here, then? People don't have to be paying attention right now...although it was a major news story.

[Alta4ever]

So you don't think that the media is going to talk about that coalition in the UK if there is mention here, then? People don't have to be paying attention right now...although it was a major news story.

Just because it hits the media it doesn't mean people pay attention to it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I have become disappointed with the Liberal brand. That now makes it zero partisan groups worth left supporting at all.

[Smallc]

Just because it hits the media it doesn't mean people pay attention to it.

Well, that's what Conservative supporters will hope for, anyway.

[Argus]

Given recent happenings in the UK, I doubt that would be such a scary thought to people. I know you guys will try, but I doubt you'd succeed.

The Brits have had labour governments since WW2. Electing a government which includes centrist liberal democrats was no big shock or bother. Canadians have never had an NDP or separatist government, however, and electing a government which had NDP and separatist components would alarm a hell of a lot of people who are not conservatives.

Further, having to bring in bills to placate those two, socialist bills for the NDP, pro-Quebec bills for the BQ, would alarm people even more. As Liberal popularity plummeted, the Liberals would be forced to take strong stands against their partners, which would inevitably bring about the fall of the coalition. That's where harper might get his majority.

[Smallc]

Calling the NDP socialists doesn't somehow make them so. They really aren't. Also, with even a few points of improvement by the Liberals, the Bloc would be a non issue. Canadians have had NDP provincial governments, some good, some bad, and a Liberal - NDP coalition wouldn't be an issue.

[PIK]

Does the UK have a party involved in the coalition that is separtist?

[Smallc]

Does the UK have a party involved in the coalition that is separtist?

I'm sorry, do you have a memory and/or reading comprehension problem?

[Evening Star]

TBH, from your screen name, I never guessed I would agree with you so often, Smallc!

It may not be a true perception but it is what it is. Unless we have more than half of our people on welfare I don't EVER see an NDP government in Ottawa, unless the NDP drastically changes and modernizes to become more like the Labour Party in Britain. Right now they always sound like they want to wage a strike with General Motors, in 1965! They just haven't changed with the times.

I think this would be the worst approach for the NDP to take. (Alexa McDonough more or less attempted it and failed.) New Labour's policies (social liberalism, moderate economic neoliberalism with some effort to preserve a welfare state, globalization) are essentially what the Liberal Party already advocates in Canada. The last thing anyone needs is a second Liberal Party. Any Dipper who would prefer a Third Way approach is free to follow Bob Rae's lead and join the Liberals. Sometimes I vote Liberal and sometimes I vote NDP but I want those to be two distinct ideological options.

The thing is that the NDP has changed with the times very much. The first two chapters on policy from Layton's book Speaking Out are concerned exclusively with environmental sustainability and innovations in green technology, certainly not what you would have got from Tommy Douglas or David Lewis. A quick scan of their "Vision" on their web page should confirm that their current priorities are not at all mired in the socialist thinking of the 60s. (They also advocate a number of pro-consumer policies that should appeal to the middle class, e.g. a cell phone consumers' bill of rights.)

The problem is that Layton has had a tendency to resort to old-style class war rhetoric in e.g the 2008 debates, presumably out of a belief that this is what appeals to the public (?). If he were upfront about his actual priorities and platform, I think he would probably successfully reach more people, who might be willing to pay a little more in taxes if it meant a liveable environment and affordable education.

[capricorn]

So you don't think that the media is going to talk about that coalition in the UK if there is mention here, then?

There is no doubt that segments of the MSM will talk up the UK coalition and so will some politicians in order to counteract Harper's anti-coalition election strategy. The underlying message will be "look over there, in the UK, they have this here coalition and it's working just fine".

[Evening Star]

A quick scan of their "Vision" on their web page should confirm that their current priorities are not at all mired in the socialist thinking of the 60s.

Ha, unless maybe "socialist thinking of the 60s" includes New Left, social ecology, and European social democratic ideals.

[waldo]

Does the UK have a party involved in the coalition that is separtist?

but, but, but... will Harper dare to trot it out... once again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Rbv5Sckcw

September 9, 2004

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,

C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.

Governor General

Rideau Hall

1 Sussex Drive

Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A1

Excellency,

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program.

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice

has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.

Leader of the Opposition

Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada

Gilles Duceppe, M.P.

Leader of the Bloc Quebecois

Jack Layton, M.P.

Leader of the New Democratic Party

[Smallc]

TBH, from your screen name, I never guessed I would agree with you so often, Smallc!

My name is actually kind of a joke name. Underneath, it says, "just a little". I'm just a little bit c....conservative.

[Smallc]

There is no doubt that segments of the MSM will talk up the UK coalition

There is no doubt that if the Conservatives begin attacking a possible coalition, the media will pretty much have a duty to bring up the situation in the UK, a country that our governing system is closer to than pretty much any other (at least, our federal parliament).