Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan

[Remiel]

A friend of mine brought my attention to this article, and I thought it would be emminently relevant to repost the link here. It is a snapshot of a time that, frankly, I had not known to exist.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in_afghanistan

[Topaz]

It seems that Afghanistan downfall came late in the 1970's and is still falling. They had a Royal Family until then and today it doesn't seem possible that a country to fall so low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan#Reigns_of_Nadir_Shah_and_Zahir_Shah_.281929.E2.80.931973.29

[bud]

quite sad.

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

[DogOnPorch]

quite sad.

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

Damn miniskirts.

[bush_cheney2004]

quite sad.

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

You're quite welcome....and obviously lacking in the history of the British Commonwealth for the region in the Great Game. How Canadian!

[DogOnPorch]

You're quite welcome....and obviously lacking in the history of the British Commonwealth for the region in the Great Game. How Canadian!

Time for ol' Sir Harry Flashman in some circles, indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_in_the_Great_Game

[bush_cheney2004]

Time for ol' Sir Harry Flashman in some circles, indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_in_the_Great_Game

Rudyard Kipling's Kim is good for beginners!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(novel)

[DogOnPorch]

Rudyard Kipling's Kim is good for beginners!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(novel)

Good old "Kim"...

Where's Sean Connery and Michael Caine when you need 'em?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073341/

[bush_cheney2004]

Where's Sean Connery and Michael Caine when you need 'em?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073341/

Look at that cover....reminds me of Zulu!

[DogOnPorch]

Look at that cover....reminds me of Zulu!

Another great MC movie.

Do you recall the line from The Man Who Would be King?: 'Big head...big ball.'

Billy Fish rocked.

Oh no. Indeed, by Jove, no...

Edited August 3, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[bloodyminded]

Good old "Kim"...

Where's Sean Connery and Michael Caine when you need 'em?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073341/

Sean Connery is a massively overrated actor.

The wonderful Michael Caine, however, was in the recent movie Harry Brown, a criminally under-watched movie, and he was fantastic. It's the best vigilante movie I've ever seen; it puts Dirty Harry to shame.

[Guest American Woman]

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

your welcomes. please let us know if there's anything else we can do for you.

Edited August 3, 2010 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

A friend of mine brought my attention to this article, and I thought it would be emminently relevant to repost the link here. It is a snapshot of a time that, frankly, I had not known to exist.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in_afghanistan

I can't help but notice how many women were attending university and in the work force back then. It must have been so difficult for them to have been pushed back into the role they were forced into under extremist Islamic law.

[bloodyminded]

I suggest that one bush_cheney2004 is plenty for our purposes here at MLW.

[jbg]

quite sad.

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

Certainly time for reasonable and peaceful negotiations(article link, excerpts below):

Gunmen Kill Medical Aid Workers in Afghanistan

By ROD NORDLAND

KABUL, Afghanistan — Their last meal was a picnic in the forest in the Sharrun Valley, high in the Hindu Kush mountains of northern Afghanistan.

Returning home from a three-week trek on foot to deliver free medical care to the remotest regions of the country, the aid workers — six Americans, a Briton, a German and four Afghans — had just finished eating when they were accosted by gunmen with long dyed-red beards, the police said.

The gunmen marched them into the forest, stood them in a line and shot 10 of them one by one.

***********

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the killings, accusing the group of being spies and Christian missionaries. Pressured in their traditional strongholds in the south and east by NATO’s growing concentration of forces there, the insurgents have become more active in areas once relatively quiet, like Badakhshan Province.

(snip)

[Yesterday]

I can't help but notice how many women were attending university and in the work force back then. It must have been so difficult for them to have been pushed back into the role they were forced into under extremist Islamic law.

The part I can't believe is that now, only a few years later, even here women don't want to drop the veil. What happened in so few short amount of years that completely removed the reality of freedom and worth from their minds? I had not known how developed they were before the wars really started. I am amazed that the world has let this go on. My GOD!!!!!! This situation makes Hitler look like a friggin angel from heaven.

[Yesterday]

quite sad.

thanks you russia and america for ruining another part of the world.

Yes, Afghanistan's are quite incapable of creating a situation like this, after all they are barbaric. How could they of ever contributed to this mess themselves. It must be all our fault.

[season331]

A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods.

“There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large national infrastructure projects, like building hydropower stations and roads, albeit with outside help. Ordinary people had a sense of hope, a belief that education could open opportunities for all, a conviction that a bright future lay ahead. All that has been destroyed by three decades of war, but it was real.”

__________________________________________

pyramid | fun word game

[Guest American Woman]

The part I can't believe is that now, only a few years later, even here women don't want to drop the veil. What happened in so few short amount of years that completely removed the reality of freedom and worth from their minds? I had not known how developed they were before the wars really started. I am amazed that the world has let this go on. My GOD!!!!!! This situation makes Hitler look like a friggin angel from heaven.

Some women don't want to drop the veil, but a lot do which is why they are being forced to obey Taliban laws. As for the women in Canada not wanting to drop the veil, are they from Afghanistan? At any rate, if it's their choice, so be it. But to force it on women and to take away their right to leave their homes, work, go to school, is terrible. There are people working to overcome it, though, and it's surprising how many women and men really do want their daughters to get educations. Perhaps you've heard of/read the books "Three Cups of Tea" and "Stones Into Schools." Very good books, and the former is required reading for all the officers enrolled in counterinsurgency courses at the Pentagon.

[bloodyminded]

Some women don't want to drop the veil, but a lot do which is why they are being forced to obey Taliban laws. As for the women in Canada not wanting to drop the veil, are they from Afghanistan? At any rate, if it's their choice, so be it. But to force it on women and to take away their right to leave their homes, work, go to school, is terrible. There are people working to overcome it, though, and it's surprising how many women and men really do want their daughters to get educations. Perhaps you've heard of/read the books "Three Cups of Tea" and "Stones Into Schools." Very good books, and the former is required reading for all the officers enrolled in counterinsurgency courses at the Pentagon.

Well said.

My personal view (and I don't think it's uncommon) is that the veil is pretty sucky....but that my opinion is less than relevant so long as a woman chooses to wear it. Even if it's a type of self-induced cultural oppression (and the oppressed always have collaborators in their own oppression, which doesn't condone it nor preclude compassion) it's not for me, or others, to say. It's when it's forced, by law or simply by members of the family/community, that it becomes truly ugly.

[Guest American Woman]

Well said.

My personal view (and I don't think it's uncommon) is that the veil is pretty sucky....but that my opinion is less than relevant so long as a woman chooses to wear it.

Well, sometimes a woman "chooses" to wear it out of fear/conditioning, so it can be pretty sucky even when it's a "choice." I realize that's not always the case, but when one grows up used to 'hiding' behind a veil, I imagine it can be pretty scary to face the world, and "choose" to wear it. So quite frankly, I find the whole idea, as a woman, "pretty sucky."

Even if it's a type of self-induced cultural oppression (and the oppressed always have collaborators in their own oppression, which doesn't condone it nor preclude compassion) it's not for me, or others, to say. It's when it's forced, by law or simply by members of the family/community, that it becomes truly ugly.

It does become truly ugly when it's forced. But I disagree that it's not for you, or others, to say; I think we have a right to speak our mind. Maybe even an obligation. I say this because I think if people are oppressed long enough, and forcefully enough, some will 'accept' it as their lot in life, and if no one speaks out against it, it will just confirm their belief.

[bloodyminded]

Well, sometimes a woman "chooses" to wear it out of fear/conditioning, so it can be pretty sucky even when it's a "choice." I realize that's not always the case, but when one grows up used to 'hiding' behind a veil, I imagine it can be pretty scary to face the world, and "choose" to wear it.

That was precisely and unequivocally my point. I had thought it clear.

[Guest American Woman]

That was precisely and unequivocally my point. I had thought it clear.

Well then, you'll have to forgive me, because by stating that your opinion "is less than relevant so long as a woman chooses to wear it," it wasn't clear to me that you were saying the same thing I was, which is that I feel my opinion is relevant even when women "choose" to wear it ... for the reasons I stated.

[bloodyminded]

Well then, you'll have to forgive me, because by stating that your opinion "is less than relevant so long as a woman chooses to wear it," it wasn't clear to me that you were saying the same thing I was, which is that I feel my opinion is relevant even when women "choose" to wear it ... for the reasons I stated.

Ah. So we agree on the larger point: that people can choose, or appear to choose thanks to indoctrination, fear, cultural conditioning, and other complex matters, to play a part in their own oppression.

My other point--nothing more than an expression of humility and an assumption that there might be things I don't understand--was that a woman might choose to wear the veil for other reasons--that our thesis on self-collusion in oppression might not be accurate in every case.

I stand by that, as it seems obvious enough.