Native Passports not recognized...

[Wild Bill]

Here's the link:

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/807271

"When they were about to leave Sunday night, the British government refused to give them visas because the U.S. State Department wouldn't guarantee that they would let them back in without American or Canadian passports. The Iroquois national team has traditionally been allowed to use native passports."

I seem to remember one poster here on MLW who some time ago had insisted that native passports were valid and internationally recognized. I also was surprised to see that apparently Britain is the main problem in this instance!

Gee, couldn't someone just wave a copy of The Silver Covenant Chain Treaty at them and clear all this up?

[Shady]

Gee, couldn't someone just wave a copy of The Silver Covenant Chain Treaty at them and clear all this up?

Exactly! Or the Royal Proclamation. I'm sure it's in there somewhere!

[Mr.Canada]

I cannot wait to hear what those two people will say on the matter. I'm sure Charter.rights is already planning a protest.

[August1991]

I seem to remember one poster here on MLW who some time ago had insisted that native passports were valid and internationally recognized.

WildBill, there are all kinds of "passports" circulating in the world.

Here's one example.

There are various travel documents too. The Canadian government issues travel documents to non-Canadians so that they can travel abroad. Check out the Travel Document or Certificate of Identity.

Many years ago, I met an Afghan woman who proudly showed me her Afghan diplomatic passport containing a Canadian visa. When I asked why she went to Canada, she explained, "Oh, I didn't go to Canada. I only got the visa because it looks good in my passport."

IOW, passports and travel documents are like diplomas and driver's licences. They mean what they mean. (Now then, a hundred dollar bill is another story - assuming that it's not counterfeit.)

----

IMV, your Native Passport story raises the stakes a notch or two, as my grandmother would say. Native Indians/Aboriginals are recognized in Canada one way (some have special treatment if they are treaty Indians) but they are treated otherwise differently - in Canada and abroad. For example, we have special hiring laws for native people - and North American Indians abroad are always a subject of curiousity. (The likely explanation for the UK OP.)

Notch or two?

In Oka or Caledonia, Canadian governments do not have the courage to confront the criminals among these Native Canadians.

And no one cares about the others. The kids fall through the cracks.

Edited July 15, 2010 by August1991

[Mr.Canada]

I hope that neither the Canadian or US governments give them passports from our country or from the US. These Natives keep saying that they aren't US or Canadian citizens so they shouldn't be given passports from either country. They claim they aren't residents of Canada so they aren't entitled to travel on papers from a country to which they don't belong, that would be fraud.

It has to work both ways and not just when it benefits the Natives.

[charter.rights]

I hope that neither the Canadian or US governments give them passports from our country or from the US. These Natives keep saying that they aren't US or Canadian citizens so they shouldn't be given passports from either country. They claim they aren't residents of Canada so they aren't entitled to travel on papers from a country to which they don't belong, that would be fraud.

It has to work both ways and not just when it benefits the Natives.

I agree. And since it is illegal in international law to disenfranchise a nation of people without their permission, then quickly recognizing their Haudenosaunee Confederacy passports is the only course of action. In fact the Queen just did recognize their sovereignty a couple of Sundays ago by presenting mementos on the anniversary of the original treaty between two sovereign nations - the Silver Covenant Chain Treaty - A Treaty of Peace, Goodwill and Friendship....

So the rest should be a breeze.

Edited July 16, 2010 by charter.rights

[Wild Bill]

I hope that neither the Canadian or US governments give them passports from our country or from the US. These Natives keep saying that they aren't US or Canadian citizens so they shouldn't be given passports from either country. They claim they aren't residents of Canada so they aren't entitled to travel on papers from a country to which they don't belong, that would be fraud.

It has to work both ways and not just when it benefits the Natives.

To be fair, the natives of that lacrosse team are refusing American or Canadian passports! They have been using their native passports for some years and up till now they have had no real problems.

However, the fact that they haven't had problems doesn't mean that other countries HAVE to and must continue to recognize them! This time they ran into a snag.

We shouldn't blame those on the sports team. If they have been able to use the passports for years then they could expect they would continue to be able to use them. It's just that they got by on luck more than other countries recognizing the legality of their paperwork.

So they may be legally wrong but they are NOT hypocrites!

Meanwhile, the point of my opening post is that we have a certain poster on this board who previously informed us that native passports where indeed valid and internationally recognized and that we were all ignorant and racist to question the idea.! The same poster has recently made claims that the Queen has recognized native sovereignty. So when this news item came up about some countries NOT recognizing the passports and that one of the major players was Britain, the home of our Queen, I thought it only apropo to start this thread...

[charter.rights]

To be fair, the natives of that lacrosse team are refusing American or Canadian passports! They have been using their native passports for some years and up till now they have had no real problems.

However, the fact that they haven't had problems doesn't mean that other countries HAVE to and must continue to recognize them! This time they ran into a snag.

We shouldn't blame those on the sports team. If they have been able to use the passports for years then they could expect they would continue to be able to use them. It's just that they got by on luck more than other countries recognizing the legality of their paperwork.

So they may be legally wrong but they are NOT hypocrites!

Meanwhile, the point of my opening post is that we have a certain poster on this board who previously informed us that native passports where indeed valid and internationally recognized and that we were all ignorant and racist to question the idea.! The same poster has recently made claims that the Queen has recognized native sovereignty. So when this news item came up about some countries NOT recognizing the passports and that one of the major players was Britain, the home of our Queen, I thought it only apropo to start this thread...

The Iroquois Nationals have traveled for many years to many tournaments on Haudenosaunee passports to Great Britain. This arose because the US made a stink about not allowing them back in, all the while Homeland Security is in the process of accepting a modified Secure Haudenosaunee Passport. I suspect that this is more about some dumb bureaucrats personal vendetta than it is about international security.

[GostHacked]

Easy solution : Get a Canadian or a US passport.

I can't even enter the US because I lack a passport. Where I did not need one when I was a kid because it was not required. Times and things change.

Get a proper internationally recognized travel document.

[charter.rights]

Easy solution : Get a Canadian or a US passport.

I can't even enter the US because I lack a passport. Where I did not need one when I was a kid because it was not required. Times and things change.

Get a proper internationally recognized travel document.

Get and Haudenosaunee passport instead. After we Ontarians are all living on their land.

[GostHacked]

Get and Haudenosaunee passport instead. After we Ontarians are all living on their land.

I am a Canadian. So I will be issued a Canadian passport. You are Canadian as well, so get a Canadian passport. Because when you travel to other countries, they have discretion on who they let in based on travel documents. Plain and simple.

We can't control what other countries do, but if they will only recognize a Canadian passport, then you really don't have much of a choice, because it is not up to Canada to decide for other countries about what documents are acceptable.

Not to mention we are citizens of Canada first, everything else second.

Edited July 16, 2010 by GostHacked

[Mr.Canada]

Get and Haudenosaunee passport instead. After we Ontarians are all living on their land.

You of coarse recognize that a lot of land was purchased from the Natives, not stolen like you'd have everyone who'd listen believe.

[Wild Bill]

Today's paper had an article pointing out that Britain's major objection was that the Haudenosaunee passports are too primitive to be useful to today's security systems! Apparently, parts of them are handwritten!

Supposedly, the Haudenosaunee are working on bringing them up to par...

[charter.rights]

I am a Canadian. So I will be issued a Canadian passport. You are Canadian as well, so get a Canadian passport. Because when you travel to other countries, they have discretion on who they let in based on travel documents. Plain and simple.

We can't control what other countries do, but if they will only recognize a Canadian passport, then you really don't have much of a choice, because it is not up to Canada to decide for other countries about what documents are acceptable.

Not to mention we are citizens of Canada first, everything else second.

They have the option of not visiting the country that refuses their passport.

[charter.rights]

You of coarse recognize that a lot of land was purchased from the Natives, not stolen like you'd have everyone who'd listen believe.

If you can find the receipts for land I would like to see them....

You see they don't exist. There were no purchase, no surrenders, no gifts of land anywhere in Canada. There are some treaties, but treaties did not surrender land. They only surrender a First Nations' rights to a particular territory, while preserving some rights on the land perpetually.

In the case of southern Ontario, it was well recognized in 1763 as Six Nations territory. There has never in the history of contact ever been a surrender, sale or lease agreement for this entire territory with Six Nations. Six Nations has not surrendered their rights or their territory.

So you see here in S.O. you are living on their land. Cut and dried. Seal and sent.

[GostHacked]

They have the option of not visiting the country that refuses their passport.

You are correct. People do have options, and that is one of them. Looks like we have a solution.

[Shady]

You are correct. People do have options, and that is one of them. Looks like we have a solution.

I agree.

[Mr.Canada]

So you see here in S.O. you are living on their land. Cut and dried. Seal and sent.

There is tons of documentation to support that land was sold. Canada doesn't recognize the native claims anyhow. I'd love to see some drunken natives try to take my land away from me, that would be hilarious. If they tried to sit in front of my truck, I'd just run them over. It's their own stupidity for lying on the road where I couldn't see them.

Anyone stupid enough to sit on the road built for cars deserves what the get. People cannot do whatever they want without consequences. This new "ME too" generation needs to learn that.

The native lost the war, deal with it. To the victor goes the spoils. If the natives were better men they would've won but they couldn't beat the white man.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[Jack Weber]

Today's paper had an article pointing out that Britain's major objection was that the Haudenosaunee passports are too primitive to be useful to today's security systems! Apparently, parts of them are handwritten!

Supposedly, the Haudenosaunee are working on bringing them up to par...

{POTENTIALLY RACIST STATEMENT ALERT}

Were they written on birch bark?

Edited July 16, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Shady]

{POTENTIALLY RACIST STATEMENT ALERT}

Were they written on birch bark?

That's not racist, that's funny! But I doubt it. Birch bark burns way too easily.

[Jack Weber]

That's not racist, that's funny! But I doubt it. Birch bark burns way too easily.

Perhaps they were laminated?

[kimmy]

Today's paper had an article pointing out that Britain's major objection was that the Haudenosaunee passports are too primitive to be useful to today's security systems! Apparently, parts of them are handwritten!

Supposedly, the Haudenosaunee are working on bringing them up to par...

Kimmy News Network has obtained a photo of one of the passports (link), and clearly they could use some work.

-k

[Jack Weber]

Kimmy News Network has obtained a photo of one of the passports (link), and clearly they could use some work.

-k

Does the Kimmy News Network have a show like Red Eye where kimmy shakes her...uh....Pom Pom's... on camera?

Edited July 17, 2010 by Jack Weber

[lictor616]

If the American Indian nations are not sovereign nations, they certainly ought to be. The principles of nationhood and sovereignty must begin somewhere. Let the American Indian show Whites the true meaning of nation-states! They have retained what most Whites have sadly lost — a strong and abiding sense of ethnic-national identity.

[Shady]

Does the Kimmy New Network have a show like Red Eye where kimmy shakes her...uh....Pom Pom's... on camera?

Good question!