Does our political system keep great minds out of politics?

[Moonlight Graham]

Like any Canadian on these boards, it's glanced my mind a few times what it would be like to run for political office (especially at the federal level). But these dreams are quickly forgotten when i remember the kind of political system we have, and how individual MP's must check much of their independence and regard for their constituents at the door when elected and must tow the party line, are not allowed to speak publicly against their party's policies and often must "pretend" (aka lie) to the press in support their leader's/party's policies (whether they agree or not), and the great majority of the time must vote with their party despite what an MP or his/her constituents think on matters.

This is no secret about the way the Canadian political system functions. I would imagine this strict party discipline frustrates many potential political candidates (many much more qualified than myself lol), and i sometimes wonder how much our system turns off some of the best and brightest minds of our country from pursuing public office. The pathetic group currently occupying the House of Commons (in all parties) makes me feel that this country must have much better leaders employed in other fields (yes i realize most of them are happy in the private sector making lots more $$$).

So do you think our system that encourages strict party discipline keeps many great minds out of politics in Canada? Also, if you ran or were elected as an MP, do you think it would it frustrate you?

[Smallc]

The system doesn't do that...the voters do. The voters refuse to elect independents in any real numbers, thereby creating the party control.

[Jack Weber]

Like any Canadian on these boards, it's glanced my mind a few times what it would be like to run for political office (especially at the federal level). But these dreams are quickly forgotten when i remember the kind of political system we have, and how individual MP's must check much of their independence and regard for their constituents at the door when elected and must tow the party line, are not allowed to speak publicly against their party's policies and often must "pretend" (aka lie) to the press in support their leader's/party's policies (whether they agree or not), and the great majority of the time must vote with their party despite what an MP or his/her constituents think on matters.

This is no secret about the way the Canadian political system functions. I would imagine this strict party discipline frustrates many potential political candidates (many much more qualified than myself lol), and i sometimes wonder how much our system turns off some of the best and brightest minds of our country from pursuing public office. The pathetic group currently occupying the House of Commons (in all parties) makes me feel that this country must have much better leaders employed in other fields (yes i realize most of them are happy in the private sector making lots more $$$).

So do you think our system that encourages strict party discipline keeps many great minds out of politics in Canada? Also, if you ran or were elected as an MP, do you think it would it frustrate you?

I think gang politics is part of the reason that it keeps good people from entering politics.But I don't think it's the only reason.Alot of it has to do with the time away from family.It also might be the way people see how politicians are treated(many times its deserved)and don't want to got through that.Frankly,unless one is in cabinet,whatever a persons vision for this country they had,you can pretty much forget it because you become basically a willing nodder for the "braintrust".

For me,I've thought about running,but every time I do I find there's no party that accurately reflects what I want to see.The Con's are too far to the right,the Liberals stand for nothing,and,the NDP have a few too many leftist radicals for me.In fact,there are a few things about all the party's that I like but singularily I find them unresponsive.

Beyond that,I tend to say what I'm thinking,which would get me in a lot of trouble.I would have no problem calling someone like Libby Davies a half wit who would be doing her very best keeping her yap shut!I would also have no problem telling Gilles Duceppe,and his band of seperatists,that they are a bunch of traitors who are lucky we are civilized enough to not have them arrested and deported.I would have no problem telling Albertan crybabies to STFU and pump the oil.I would have no problem publicly calling out the Liberal party as a relic of the past and it's best thing it can do is either stand for something or cease to exist!

I could'nt do it...

Edited July 13, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Moonbox]

The system doesn't do that...the voters do. The voters refuse to elect independents in any real numbers, thereby creating the party control.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly right. The apathy, ignorance and laziness of the average voter turns politics into a pageant and media circus.

[lictor616]

Our political system keeps mediocrity and unprincipledness on top.

Party politics in canada are all about getting elected... parties have no central direction other then to follow what the leftwing media dictates: everyone party tries to copy vestiges of every other party... you end up with almost no variation in the platforms..

in essence, a coke or pepsi democracy...

they will try to impress the mediocrities that constitute a voting majority in our country, the welfare mothers with plastic haircurlers, the yahoos, the hippies, not by policy or principle, but by folksy self abasement and pantomimes, sorta like when Stéphane Dion, that rat like creature, who was plastered all over our boob tubes eating a hot dog to prove to the mouth breathing liberal voters, that he wasn't the uptight "elitist" they thought he was...

its sickening to watch...

Edited July 13, 2010 by lictor616

[bjre]

The system doesn't do that...the voters do. The voters refuse to elect independents in any real numbers, thereby creating the party control.

You words suggest you are much older than your name.

the voters are fooled by media that are controlled by big businesses for hundreds of years that people have been mislead for hundreds of years.

People don't vote for PM.

The party that take more votes decide who is the PM.

So only large party will have that chance.

Politicians can only comply to large party to tell lie or he will have no chance.

That is the current bureaucracies.

It is the system bully the politicians and force them to tell lies unless they give up.

Edited July 13, 2010 by bjre

[Jack Weber]

Yeah that's pretty much exactly right. The apathy, ignorance and laziness of the average voter turns politics into a pageant and media circus.

Politicians love apathy...

It means they don't have to deal with a large body politik and they can make their message simpler...

The less people paying attention,the more they can get away with...

[Borg]

Like any Canadian on these boards, it's glanced my mind a few times what it would be like to run for political office (especially at the federal level). But these dreams are quickly forgotten when i remember the kind of political system we have, and how individual MP's must check much of their independence and regard for their constituents at the door when elected and must tow the party line, are not allowed to speak publicly against their party's policies and often must "pretend" (aka lie) to the press in support their leader's/party's policies (whether they agree or not), and the great majority of the time must vote with their party despite what an MP or his/her constituents think on matters.

This is no secret about the way the Canadian political system functions. I would imagine this strict party discipline frustrates many potential political candidates (many much more qualified than myself lol), and i sometimes wonder how much our system turns off some of the best and brightest minds of our country from pursuing public office. The pathetic group currently occupying the House of Commons (in all parties) makes me feel that this country must have much better leaders employed in other fields (yes i realize most of them are happy in the private sector making lots more $$$).

So do you think our system that encourages strict party discipline keeps many great minds out of politics in Canada? Also, if you ran or were elected as an MP, do you think it would it frustrate you?

Entitled canuckleheads keep the good guys out of the system

They could not standsomeone who actually ran with principal mand with honour - there fore willing to stand up and actually say what they believe to be right, rather than what will get them re-elected

Run for politics? Hardly!

Borg

[TimG]

So do you think our system that encourages strict party discipline keeps many great minds out of politics in Canada? Also, if you ran or were elected as an MP, do you think it would it frustrate you?

The idea that there are 'great minds' out there that would be happy to lead us to nirvana if only the system was better is a myth. I see several reasons for this:

1) People do not defer to authority anymore and will ask questions that were not asked in the past.

2) People have access to a huge amount of information that allows them to ask tougher questions.

3) People are selfish now and are not that interested in sacrificing for the greater good.

4) Most of the problems facing us are extremely intractable and cannot be solved by a 'man with a vision'.

[Jack Weber]

The idea that there are 'great minds' out there that would be happy to lead us to nirvana if only the system was better is a myth. I see several reasons for this:

1) People do not defer to authority anymore and will ask questions that were not asked in the past.

2) People have access to a huge amount of information that allows them to ask tougher questions.

3) People are selfish now and are not that interested in sacrificing for the greater good.

4) Most of the problems facing us are extremely intractable and cannot be solved by a 'man with a vision'.

Very good points....

[kimmy]

I certainly wouldn't run for office.

And the stuff I've written here is enough to guarantee I'd never get elected even if I did.

-k

[bjre]

IMO, It will be ideal if Canada can have a good dictator to rule 20 years to redesign the system and rebuild democracy and give the power back to the people after 20 years.

[Keepitsimple]

I certainly wouldn't run for office.

And the stuff I've written here is enough to guarantee I'd never get elected even if I did.

-k

I'd vote for you....

[Shwa]

Excellent topic MG.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "great minds." Despite their politics or shabby attempts at personal popularizing, all four party leaders are pretty smart guys. And there are some pretty smart cookies in the rank and file of all parties. Most of them have the educational credentials to prove they can make intelligent choices and given the complexities of running a country so vast and practically empty they do a decent job in the long run. Sure some of them make poor choices and say things where you have wonder if that is them talking or the glue, but overall I like where I live.

But is a smart guy/gal a "great mind?"

[charter.rights]

The system doesn't do that...the voters do. The voters refuse to elect independents in any real numbers, thereby creating the party control.

Well no. The riding candidates are chosen and approved by the party, so more often than not, parties will not parachute anyone who raises a stink now and then, or thinks outside of their box.

[charter.rights]

IMO, It will be ideal if Canada can have a good dictator to rule 20 years to redesign the system and rebuild democracy and give the power back to the people after 20 years.

Unfortuntately, the Reform were rejected by Canadians and as it turns out they are just as corrupt and self serving as the rest of them....

[bjre]

Unfortuntately, the Reform were rejected by Canadians and as it turns out they are just as corrupt and self serving as the rest of them....

Washington was not elected by all the Americans at that time, he had the power to act as a dictator and others want him to. He invented a new system which is better than previous ones. And he insist not to hold the position after 8 years and that become the rule.

The current system is a self severing one. A great person that always think of others is much better than a corrupt system.

Edited July 13, 2010 by bjre

[bjre]

all four party leaders are pretty smart guys.

That can not prevent them from using their smartness only for the interest of its own party, instead of the interest of the most majority of the Canadians.

Edited July 13, 2010 by bjre

[Smallc]

Well no. The riding candidates are chosen and approved by the party, so more often than not, parties will not parachute anyone who raises a stink now and then, or thinks outside of their box.

Who said we had to vote for parties? The system doesn't necessitate that.

[charter.rights]

Washington was not elected by all the Americans at that time, he had the power to act as a dictator and others want him to. He invented a new system which is better than previous ones. And he insist not to hold the position after 8 years and that become the rule.

The current system is a self severing one. A great person that always think of others is much better than a corrupt system.

Again, unfortunately a corrupt system corrupts its participants. We have seen many a politician go in with good intentions and come out stinking like the rest of them. Even Harper - the champion of fiscal restraint and change - fell into the same stinking trap. Using the treasury like it was his own money. Ignoring human rights. Defying parliamentary law and challenging the entire basis for the system aka the Crown. Harper is a stinking mess even though he boasted about being different.

[bjre]

Who said we had to vote for parties? The system doesn't necessitate that.

Is there any candidate not a party member?

[Smallc]

Is there any candidate not a party member?

Often

[bjre]

Often

For example, who? (In recent 4 years)

[Smallc]

For example, who? (In recent 4 years)

I don't remember. I don't actually care, either. I don't mind voting for partisan hacks, because, by in large, it works out.

[bjre]

Again, unfortunately a corrupt system corrupts its participants. We have seen many a politician go in with good intentions and come out stinking like the rest of them. Even Harper - the champion of fiscal restraint and change - fell into the same stinking trap. Using the treasury like it was his own money. Ignoring human rights. Defying parliamentary law and challenging the entire basis for the system aka the Crown. Harper is a stinking mess even though he boasted about being different.

That is because Harper is not a so great person.